I hear you.
I get it, I’m angry too.
I’m not talking to the people who are angry at Target because their Pro Transgender bathroom policy flies in the face of their cherry picked moral compass. I’m not under any obligation to respect their beliefs.
I’m talking to you… the people who have no issue with sharing a bathroom with LGBT people. I’m talking to those of you who are speaking out about this bathroom policy, expressing concern over the women and children who you fear will be in danger because of this policy.
You’re reasonable people. You aren’t expressing hate or bigotry. You just worry. You worry about your kids, your wives, your sisters. I worry too.
I probably worry too much. I have always accompanied my younger kids to the bathroom in public places. When my son was too old to go into the women’s room, I would stand right outside the Men’s room door. If he was taking a while I would yell through the door, asking if he was ok. So, yes, I’m that mom.
I worry. I have always been a little leery of public restrooms.
But I’m not boycotting Target and I’m no more worried about my kids’ safety than I was before.
Even though I’m a worrier, I read and I research. Facts help to calm my fears. Facts that show that in states with pro-Transgender bathroom policies, there has been no increase in assaults. Research that leads me to find an article by a Sexual Assault Victim’s Advocacy Group that is stating very clearly that pro-Trans bathroom policies do not increase the danger of sexual assault for anyone. They in fact minimize it for LGBT people.
What I see is a lot of fear mongering going around. Stories of men sneaking into the ladies room, emboldened by these laws. Stories that have proven to be false. And some that are orchestrated to incite more fear.
So, I’m going to try to say the rest of this gently because to be honest, it’s all got me worked up and more than a little angry. It’s got a question bouncing around my head for the last few days… one that makes me angrier every time I think it…
Where have you been?
You say you are concerned for women and children. That the thought of sexual assault in a Target bathroom is so concerning that you may boycott, that you are forgoing your usual pleasant FaceBook anecdotes and memes to shout about the new policy…
Where the hell have you been?
You, the protectors of women and children. Where have you been when we’ve been writing and talking about rape? When some of us have been shouting about these things for years, begging for people to listen, to care. To see the pain and destruction of these things that plague our society.
When we’ve been the ones to make you feel uncomfortable because we are invading your mindless FaceBooking and Tweeting with rants about injustice and startling statistics of rape that should have any sane person’s hair standing on end?
Where were your angry voices when a Presidential candidate suggested that women who don’t want to be raped shouldn’t go to parties?
When actual real life Congressmen claimed that rape victims can’t get pregnant because their body “will shut that down.”
When a court rules that oral sex is not rape if the victim is unconscious from drinking?
When a state legislator in Tennessee is ordered by the TN Attorney General to stay away from women at work because he is a danger to them?
Where were your petitions? Where was your concern? WHY AREN’T YOU SHOUTING ABOUT THESE THINGS???
Where were you when yet another woman was killed by her abusive husband? When a mother was beaten repeatedly. When the “system” that is supposed to protect her allows her violent husband to keep his gun , which he then uses to kill her and her children? Where has your concern been for the 3 women murdered every day by their intimate partner?
Where were you when your favorite college or professional sports hero was accused of rape? Or caught on video beating his wife? Are you still a fan of some of these guys? Do you still cheer them on? Where was the moral outrage to a society that looks past it because he can throw a ball and win games?
Where were you when R.Kelly was allowed to perform, put out another album, collaborate with famous pop singers? Even though he was accused of raping minors and committing cruel acts and even video taped himself doing these horrific and illegal things? Did you stand up and protest then? Did the account of a 15 year old girl’s “disembodied stare” at the video camera as he assaulted her not make you angry?
Where was your angry voice when a rapist was sentenced to 45 days for raping a 14 year old girl?
Where were you when girls were slut shamed after coming forward about their rape?
Where is your loud voice standing up for the homeless women and children? When the U.S. has largest number of homeless women and children among industrialized nations? Is the Target bathroom more of a concern than a mother and her children sleeping in their cars? Or on the street? Or bouncing around homeless shelters?
Where was your self righteous indignation when a child was killed at a park playing with a toy gun? When the police officer who shot him within seconds of arriving on the scene was let off without being charged?
Where were you when a child was shot because his radio was too loud?
Where were you when a child was killed after walking home from buying Skittles? When his murderer was acquitted and went on to make assault two different girlfriends and threaten them with his gun. That he’s still allowed to own.
Where were you when these children were killed? Because I didn’t hear any of you then. I didn’t hear a whole lot of yelling and hand wringing for these children who were mowed down by white male outrage and misguided fear.
When we speak or write or Tweet about everyday sexism and rape culture -that you damn well better believe gives rise to rape and assault- you shrugged. Or rolled your eyes. Or looked away. Or clicked “Unfollow.” Did we make you uncomfortable? All of our ranting and raving about the insidious nature of a society that views women (and hell, children too) as commodities, did it make you feel icky?
You see, I care about women and children (and boys and men) outside of the Target bathrooms. I care about them at home, at school, on the bus, at work, on the street. I care about them regardless of how they’re dressed, regardless of their economic class, no matter their sexual orientation. I care about them when they are being victimized and the world just looks on in apathy.
Those predators you’re so worried will sneak into the Target bathroom? They’re all around you.
They are your Priest, your kid’s coach, your neighbor, your uncle, your youth group leader, your United States Speaker of the House.
They are a savvy bunch, these sick bastards. They flock to places where they can gain your trust. They go to great pains to appear normal and friendly. They don’t sport a beard and a dress and waltz into the bathroom to attack your women and children.
And I can’t help but question concern that only seem to flare up when it’s anti-something. When it’s an “alternative lifestyle.” I question the motivation. I wonder, where the hell have your morals been? Where was your moral outrage when kids were gunned down and college girls were sexually assaulted and women serving in the military were being raped? When women and children were murdered by angry husbands? When restraining orders were granted but in reality offered no protection. When women were threatened online with violence. With rape. With comments like “I know where you live and I will find you and kill you.” Comments that are generated because the woman had the audacity to speak up or write or actually just do her job.
Because I haven’t heard from you about these things. I haven’t heard of petitions or moral outrage from the masses on these things. I haven’t heard much from you at all.
Until now, your silence has been deafening.
So excuse me if I find your newfound activism a little disingenuous. Excuse me if I am rolling my eyes over the furor over using a public restroom. Excuse me if I’m a little worked up over the idea that the “problem” is a Target policy but not the fact that women and children have to be careful and on guard because of a culture that has encouraged male entitlement and subversive sexism and blatant sexualization.
The “problem” you’re screaming about is not the problem. The problem is your apathy all these years to the reality that you refuse to see or acknowledge. It’s a lot easier to believe in the boogey man in the Target bathroom than the real threat that is woven into the very fabric of your Made In the USA security blanket.
Excuse me if I’m a little put off by a flurry of chicken scratched signatures on a fear mongering petition. Excuse me if I think your priorities seem a little slippery.
Because until now? Your silence has been deafening.
Doth they proteth too much?
Nah too little, y’all.
Way to sum up my 1500 words succinctly 😉
I love you.
Bra-friggin-vo, Gretch. This is everything I’ve thought but couldn’t weave into words the magical way you have. Sharing this everywhere.
Thank you <3
Thank you Ramona!
I adore you.
I adore you too <3
I’m sorry to swear, but there is no other way to say this. I fucking love you!
I wrote about this last night also, I wasn’t going to publish but I think today you have given me the strength to do so. Thank you Girlie!
I’m so honored Darla. Your post was amazing and brave and powerful. <3
You never have to apologize for swearing here. I fucking love you too <3
Your post brings to mind the Pink Floyd song, “On the Turning Away.” It has always been the case that society in general sees and feels nothing for that which is not on their own doorstep. And now that the media and the government has a new way to monger fear, and thus stay in control, there is outrage for a new ghost.
People will always fear what they don’t understand. It’s easier to shut it out than make the effort to understand it. It will never happen to them, after all. The basis of it all is denial. Unfortunately, no matter how loud we scream we will never teach. For that matter, screaming is counterproductive. A softer approach is required – one that people can relate to. Where the outside forces (media and government) are “over”-mining the situation, we must “under”-mine it.
We CAN teach people. This is a perfect opportunity. Let’s not let it go to waste.
Perfectly said, Linda. You’re so right. What I keep coming back to… these people are so worried about women and children in the bathrooms (which statistically is not truly a danger) and I keep hearing “We’re making everyone else uncomfortable for (insert small percentage I can’t remember) of the population (meaning the trans population.) Where is their concern for the very real and valid threats that have existed for trans women to have to use the men’s bathroom (one study cited 53% of trans people reported harassment in the bathroom)? Trans men and women face a very real threat of rape, sexual assault, beating and killings simply because of who they are. None of these boycotters seem to be concerned with that.
What is truly dangerous is a couple (so far) of these upright men, standing outside womens bathrooms and accosting women to make sure they’re ‘real’ women.
THIS is a fucking disaster waiting to happen.
Every. Single. Word.
Every word that you said needed to be. People seem to always regret facts to make themselves more scared. What is the point of that? Why not ne happy to embrace something new when there is no logical reason to fear? Because, sadly, the homophobic nature of people from the past still lives on. There was a time when people didn’t understand that people could seriously like their own gender without being possessed by a demon or having a mental health disorder. Now, most people understand and accept the fact. With transgendered people, that’s not the case. People now struggle to understand that someone can be a different gender than their genitals say they are. For this reason, they become major rapists when in reality, they are the ones beaten and murdered themselves. A gangster doesn’t let a law stop her from owning a gun and using it to kill people. A rapist will not let a law stop him from going into the women’s restroom and raping someone if he really wants to. The facts show that there’s no risk in giving transgendered people basic rights because it won’t make normal people into rapists.
I’m done… Your article just solidified my beliefs and gave me confidence. Thanks for sharing it:)
Very well written, and brings to mind many things we should be ever more concerned about. However, of most all the things you mentioned there are laws in place to protect against those things. It’s why Speaker Hastert is going to prison. It’s why child abusers when caught are imprisoned, murderers and rapists the same, etc. Those laws are not always enforced, people beat the system, who you know can get you off, and having lots of money goes a long way in your acquittal. It’s part of the corruption in our justice system.
However, there are no laws against the rap culture so disgustingly repulsive they can “sing” anything they want, including raping women or killing police officers, and then appear as an entertainer at the Super Bowl, or on the late night TV talk shows, and made out as icons worshiped by countless millions. Ever hear Jimmy Fallon, Kimmel, Conan, or Colbert take a stand against them? How bout the Hollywood elites, Itunes? Nope, they’re out there promoting them left and right. And, the leftists, those you’re out there protecting, are their biggest supporters. They’re the ones that keep them doing what they’re doing.
There is no law against the celebration of family dysfunction on TV and through the mainstream media by the likes of the Kardashians, a family so sick and dysfunctional I have little doubt it played into “Cat” Jenner’s transgender decision. They’re celebrated by the leftists.
There is no law against a porn industry, now $18 Billion in the US, over $100 Billion worldwide, spurning a national health crisis bringing millions into addiction, tearing up marriages and families, ruining lives, producing sexual deviants, rapists, etc. Yet, you’ll find it laughed about on TV, or toyed with by your favorite actors and actresses in Hollywood. All under the banner of free speech, and no one says a thing.
But, share your privately held convictions you’re against things mentioned above, or homosexuality, or transgenderism, and you’re labeled a hate monger when it’s rarely the case. In fact, the group having more hate thrown at them on TV, in the media, and by the very people you are trying to protect are Christians trying to hold onto some semblance of common sense and common decency. These values are becoming a very rare commodity in this nation.
You know what else all these perversions are producing? An ever growing population of rapists, voyeurs, and sexual deviants. The kind that make their way into restrooms under the kind of policies put in place by Target.
So, here are the questions I have for you. For the sake of common sense and common decency, for the sake of those who value a sense of privacy when they enter a restroom, or change clothes in a locker room in an elementary, middle, or high school, college, or want to be protected from the sex offenders and molesters who never would enter an opposite gender restroom because the law and policies once said they couldn’t, but now do because it says say they can; why is it we should change the entire culture because .003% of our population feels their rights are violated because they can’t enter an opposite sex restroom when they feel like they’re not what their anatomy says they are? Have we completely lost our minds? Why can’t they just do it in the restroom affiliated with their anatomy? Why would they feel uncomfortable doing that? Why are their rights being violated, but the vast majority’s rights are not violated by interfering with their right of privacy, common sense and common decency, and protection? Why are we letting an infinitesimally small percentage of our population determine an identity by their feelings, and let those feelings rule public policy?
“Why can’t they just do it in the restroom affiliated with their anatomy?” Transgenders have been killed for less.
If I have to hear one more person claim that Christians are the most persecuted group in America, I will seriously lose it. I am a Christian and the scope of my privilege is mind boggling, especially considering that I’m also white. I am also the mother of a girl and I am far more fearful of her being assaulted by someone we know and think we can trust than by any stranger in a Target bathroom.
Before you start reckoning up all the ways that you are persecuted, please take a moment to consider the immense privilege that you enjoy. Realize that a colossal portion of the world’s population faces bodily harm, impediments on their basic human rights, and even death because they don’t adhere to your so-called “common sense and common decency.”
Look at the front page of almost any newspaper, read the editorials and opinion pages, watch most any sitcom, TV drama, countless Hollywood film productions, listen to the stand on moral issues by the Hollywood elites, listen to the vast majority of music being produced, listen to what the professors are spewing in colleges and universities, etc, and you can’t miss the attack on judeo-Christian values and moral precepts. Show up at the Oscars, mention God, and things grow cold and distant. God was actually loudly booed at a DEM convention. In CA, you can teach students to recite Islamic quotes from the Quran, but you can’t do the same with the Bible. In fact, there is a growing movement to remove the bible from public schools and libraries. Children are taught to experiment with sex. The family unit is under assault. The NEA is working hard to take over parental authority in public school systems. Forty years ago most women would’ve gladly given their own lives for the child in their womb to live. Not today. Since Roe vs Wade in 1973, 60,000,000 million children of the womb have been murdered through “abortion” in this nation making it a holocaust, and the nation doesn’t even blush.
One thing is very clear. Your idea of common sense and common decency is very different than mine.
Booing God = persecution? Tell me who’s easily offended now.
Let me ask you something, my dear Christian. Do you think Jesus cares which bathroom you use?
Do I believe booing God in itself is persecution? Personally, I’m not so offended by that. That was included in the response as part of the overall attack on Judeo-Christian values and moral precepts. Do you believe booing transgenders (which I don’t condone), is derogatory, condemning, felt as persecution, or hate speech? Don’t know about you, but my guess in transgenders would be deeply hurt and offended by it. I think it’s highly uncalled for. I think they should be loved unconditionally.
Does Jesus care what bathroom someone uses? If it’s a man in a women’s restroom, or visa versa where privacy is violated, people are offended by it, and concerned about their safety, or a school locker room with people concerned for the same reasons — in a nation with an ever growing population of sexual perverts, rapists, voyeurs, etc? Absolutely!
So what is it you’re offended by? Is it the people who oppose lawmakers pushing Christians values on them? Is it people who believe in a different God? Is it people who believe in no god?
Here’s the bottom line: this nation was founded upon the idea of religious freedom. It has no national region. This is not a Christian nation. It is a melting pot of people of all nationalities and religious affiliations. Not all people hold the same values as you do. When those people push back because they don’t want your values forced upon them it is not persecution.
Your family values are not the same as mine, and that’s okay. God has no place in the classroom. No god does. And that’s okay. If you want your child to learn about God send him/her to Catholic school, church, or teach him/her yourself. That’s okay. We are all different and, guess what, that’s okay.
Your religion is not under attack. People are just sick and tired of having it forced down their throats.
Hey Pal Madden, maybe they did an episode of this on West Wing, that show put on by the “liberal Hollywood trash” that you just called brilliant TV on your Facebook! You are quite a piece of work. You sure talk a good game about how Christians are all about the morals as you go on about how awesome of a TV show the West Wing was that literally celebrated a deceptive, drug-taking, abortion-supporting, President. Incredible.
Paul Newman Cabernet Sauvignon, Rocky Patel Edge 6 x 50, (cigar), and Sunday evening binge watching West Wing on Netflix. Liberally driven, but brilliantly written, and the acting is very good.
Took a break, and thought this conversation could use some levity. Selah…
Right, so you support a show about a drug-taking, deceptive, abortion-supporting President while you trash Hollywood for bullying Christians. Fascinating.
Emily: Bravo. Thank you. Pal: The victim complex of the extreme Christian right is startling. Professors and tv shows and music? Those are the things you’re scared of? Try being a minority. Try being a woman who waits tables at a bar and gets groped. Try being a woman or girl or boy in Africa who gets raped by Boko Haram. Try being almost any other group other than white Christian. The things you are scared of? Those are in themselves evidence of your privilege. Real persecution is happening all over this world. If persecution truly bothers you, you may want to step outside of your bubble and look at people who are truly suffering.
ps: I’m a Christian too.
This. This. This.
I see. You’re all up in a tizzy because over a million have joined together to boycott a company stepping all over the privacy rights of American citizens. But, you carry no anger toward the Hollywood elites, the secular sexed up tv shows with abusive, foul, grossly profane language unheard of twenty years on TV, but now fill the airwaves. Programs that consistently mock God, and Christianity. Or, the music spewing hatred, sexual perversion, rape, killing police officers. etc. These are the things destroying the moral fabric of this nation. Where’s your anger and indignation over these things? Does it not exist, or is the only kind of thing getting your panties bunched up is transgenders who can’t pee in an opposite sex restroom? God help us! Your silence of things that really matter is DEAFENING!
Further, you say you are a Christian. Question: When you hear the words sin, repentance, and righteousness how does it strike you? If those words don’t mean anything to you, or carry little weight with you then it’s apparent your Christianity is one of two things – enormously diluted, or non-existent.
Thank you for completely and totally missing the entire point of her essay, and in the process, totally and completely affirming her point.
Jesus wept, buddy, you self righteous whitewashed tomb.
You’re so courageous you reply anonymously.
You legit sound brainwashed Pal. You sound like someone from a cult. Oh wait, you are.
I love how this guy is having such a temper tantrum about Hollywood while in the very same hour, is on his Facebook talking about how much he loves the West Wing on a public post. It’s amazing! But isn’t that just like a conservative christian these days, on one side of his mouth, he complains about the “filth” of Hollywood while putting money in the very pockets of the people that create it. No integrity. And I’m sure what will be next s “Hey, I’m just human!”
The compartmentalization is stunning. I needed that laugh!
Their cognitive dissonance is hilarious.
Pal, do you mean the “godless shows” like the West Wing that ripped Dr. Laura a new one and made it a point to attack the institutionalized Christianity that was shaming and condemning this nation, just like you’re trying to do now to this brave and lovely woman who had the courage to call you to accountability? The level of disconnect you seem to have regarding your own rage, defensiveness and hypocrisy is almost frightening.
I cannot tell you what a breath of fresh air you are as a Christian, Gretchen Kelly. And it ‘s not just your stance on this particular issue, it’s being so aware of the privilege Christians have in this country, so responsible with it and calling your brother here into accountability about who is really vulnerable. From the bottom of my heart, I’m grateful.
“The attack”? Wow, how melodramatic can you get? That’s silly.
A lot of US citizens are feeling more comfortable addressing the harm that the Christian community has done – I’m sure inadvertently due to their own fear, need to control, or whatever the motivation – and they’re saying so. When did you all develop such a massive persecution complex? You’ve enjoyed the majority of opinion and morality being solidly in your corner for hundreds of years, Christians have shut down the minority view point (let’s all be mindful that you’re still a massive majority in this country though you’re losing people in droves) for decades. Now your fellow citizens are actually speaking up and calling you into some accountability to actually *live* the words that Christ spoke about so beautifully – we’re being honest with you about the harm you’ve done and continue to do to gay kids and the rest of the GLBT community – and you actually believe that honesty is you being “attacked”? I don’t know any other way of saying this, but it’s one of the most self-absorbed things I’ve ever witnessed. You’re now terrified that you’re losing the privilege that you’ve enjoyed in actually defining the country’s narrative and you’re actually twisting that into an attack. It’s the most narcissistic thing I’ve ever watched.
Here are the facts. You’re not being attacked, people are being honest with you. We’re actually focused on protecting the minority which is what our Constitution actually does – protects the smaller groups of people who don’t have a voice. As much as you might feel upset that people are angry with you? You’re certainly not the minority in this country, Christians run the government and most of the institutions in America. You have massive amount of power.
Here’s what’s happening. People are now comfortable in expressing how angry they are with you. The Christian church has hurt them. When you represent yourself as Christian? You sign up for all of it. There’s been absolutely nothing done with the sexual abuse that is shut up and hidden by those of you who continue to say “But I’m one of the good Christians!” because you still go to church every Sunday and put money into the pockets of those in power who continue to hide these abusers, both protestant and catholic it doesn’t matter. People are saying, “Hey you know what? Your morals aren’t my own, you don’t get a lock on the country anymore, I’m going to say what I like regardless if you find me repugnant or not” (Christians love to preach on how disgusting everyone else is, how we’re all ruining marriage for example while you all enjoy a 54% divorce rate according to Christianity today). We’re just being honest. You hurt people, people we love, and we have to protect them from you. Our country needs protection from Christians and a lot of us are emboldened by our love for our country and our citizens and we’ve found the courage to actually stand up against you. So deal with it, engage on terms you no longer get to dictate, or don’t. It’s up to you.
If we had let public policy rule the country, we would still have separate schools for blacks and whites, separate bathrooms, and guess who would still be sitting on the back of the bus. If we let public policy rule out laws, women wouldn’t be allowed to vote. No, public opinion isn’t the way to go. And, this is about Christian-rights. This started off as Marriage Equality. Christians lost. Now this. Let me put it this way. “One man and one woman” is a Christian thing. Yes, some other religions believe that too, but there are religions that believe a man can have many wives. No, the fight was one man and one woman – that is Christian-rights, not religious-rights. It’s funny how people don’t want the government getting involved in their religion, but they want the government to be run based on their religious beliefs. I’m not Christian. Why do I have to live my life by your beliefs? I’m a Veteran, why should I expect equality for all regardless of what they have between their legs considering I put my life on the line to defend it? If you are so worried about your daughters in the bathroom, why aren’t you in there with them? You’re so worried about a pedophile entering the woman’s bathroom and assaulting your daughter, but you have no problem with that same pedophile in the bathroom with your son. Consistency, that’s all I’m looking for. You want to pull the religion card? Only God has the power to judge, not you. Your actions are anti-Christian. I’m a straight man with a daughter, and a someone who is transgender using the same bathroom as her is the last thing on my mind. Yes, Christians are attempting to force their beliefs on everybody else. And if you think they aren’t, well, homosexuals and transgender men and women aren’t going door to door trying to convert you, that’s a Christian thing. If you are uncomfortable using the bathroom with someone who is transgender, you are more than welcome to use a single occupancy bathroom. Why should they be forced into segregation because you feel uncomfortable. I’m uncomfortable when you say you are praying for me, I don’t see them creating a law banning that. [And as and FYI, I’m not turning on notifications to alert me when you want to argue, I don’t argue with small minded bigots so your responses will go unanswered.]
You may not see this, Michael, but thank you. Perfectly said.
Speaker Hassert is not going to prison for molesting young boys. He is going to prison for money laundering when he paid off a victim. Therein lies the problem. Statutes of limitations prevent prosecution after a certain number of years. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WE SHOULD BE ANGRY ABOUT. Not imaginary problems that are not problems.
Sexual assaults stemming from the pro-transgender law “not even remotely a problem”- Minneapolis Police Spokesperson
No problem since passage of 2011 law- Las Vegas Police
No increase in sex crimes due to 2001 law- Exec. Dir. Rhode Island Commission for Human Rights
There’s more, but you get the point. Here’s an article that goes into more detail: http://mic.com/articles/114066/statistics-show-exactly-how-many-times-trans-people-have-attacked-you-in-bathrooms#.AOKO8GKp7
By the way, for the sake of common decency – as you put it- what about that .003%? What about them? Let’s allow them to be harassed and unable to use public restrooms? Who cares about them and the very real threat that they face, right? Let’s make up some spurious claims of imaginary dangers. Trans people face abuse and assault on a startling basis. And yes, in public restrooms. There is actual evidence of this. I can tell you right now, as a mother of three children who is also a victim of child sex abuse (that did not happen in a public restroom by the way) my rights are not being violated. Not in the least. FACTS. They are your friend.
“FACTS. They are your friends.” Chicago Tribune: “Technically, he’s going to the joint on the bank charge because the statute of limitations has expired on the abuse allegations. But U.S. District Judge Thomas M. Durkin made it clear he did not sentence Hastert with prison time primarily for crimes against the financial system. He is being punished for cruel depravity.”
Also, the fact that transgenders represent such an infinitesimally small percentage of the population is exactly why it’s not recorded as a major problem. It’s hard to trace.
Further, I have not pointed to transgenders as the one committing sex crimes. You brought that up. My focus was on the right of privacy, right of protection, and a right to common decency desired by the vast majority of American citizens. A right you feel should be superseded by the .003% of the population who want to place their “rights” above the privacy rights of others. Because they can’t pee in the same restroom with those of the same anatomy? This is out of a comic book.
Your “comic book” reference speaks volumes. Either you view a portion of the population (real human beings by the way) as a joke because they want to be treated with dignity and have a measure of safety, or you really don’t understand what transgender is and what they really go through. Honestly, I think lack of understanding is a large part of the problem. And I don’t mean that in a snarky way. I think for most people, transgender is still a new concept. I know I understand much more about it now than I did a few years ago. And that’s because more people are coming out and being open about being transgender and sharing their experiences with the rest of us. These people are brave. I have read more and have met some transgender, transitioning people through blogging, so I see what they are going through. A ProTrans bathroom policy does not discriminate against me. Or you. But without it? Trans people are being discriminated against. This is a civil rights issue. We have to look at the facts. This does not put you or me or my kids in any danger in public restrooms.
As to the District Court’s comments… just how much time do you think a serial child molester should serve? 15 months? Is that sufficient? Because if you truly were concerned about women and children you would be LIVID that this monster is only getting 15 months for heinous crimes. Crimes that ruined children’s lives. So, it’s very nice for the judge to say that he is punishing Hassert for the serial molesting, but that’s a joke. 15 months is a JOKE. Do you see what I’m saying? This is an actual thing that happened and no one is signing petitions to change the statute of limitations so that monsters like Hassert can be prosecuted and sufficiently punished for what they did to the CHILDREN that all of these boycotters claim to be so worried about.
Privacy is what stalls are for. Don’t they have them in your bathrooms?
Pal, unfortunately for you, people are beginning to look for moral guidance outside of religion as of late, and particularly, outside of the religions of Abraham- who have largely embraced many things that the rest of us find immoral and unethical. We don’t embrace a religion as a guidepost for ethical behavior when it embraces slavery, misogyny, rape, stoning, ritual human and animal sacrifice… just to name a few. Oh wait, “We largely ignore the old testament” many Christians say. Well, I guess your arguments against homosexuality and pre-marital sex are null and void then, since Jesus never addressed them and the New Testament never outlaws them. In fact, never anywhere does the bible outlaw pre-marital sex, so according to your religion it’s perfectly okay for people to experiment before marriage. (http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/blog-home/premarital-sex-is-it-a-sin-or-not) “Even Solomon, a great prophet of the Bible who was said to be favored by God had seven hundred princesses and three hundred concubines. The Bible shows that polygamy, rape, incest, and orgies were not only accepted, but were often rewarded by God and were common practice of “great men of the Bible,” none of whom were ever spoken out against in the Bible. Christ’s teachings at the Sermon on the Mount were that the only law is the law of love. He showed this by reversing four of the Old Testament laws which conflicted with loving people. Therefore, anything that was unkind, not by mutual consent, etc. would be immoral for a Christian, but obviously it would not be immoral to love sexuality before marriage or because of different but natural sexual orientation.” Most of the issues you speak out against, citing their adoption into mainstream society as an attack on Christians, aren’t even outlawed per the bible unless words are mistranslated and passages cherry-picked.
The reason people are booing Christianity is because they see that the most vocal Christians (who, unfortunately have given the religion such a bad rap that even progressive and loving Christians are often looped into the “hypocrite” title), are using their religion as an excuse to push a system of morality that is illogical and not founded in the reduction of suffering.
True morality, as many people are embracing today, is the reduction of suffering for all. This means that we have a problem with rape (which is condoned in the bible), and we have a problem with the hatred, judgement, and persecution of people for making decisions about the way they will live their OWN life and for using their personal liberties which we have fought to protect. We want equality (both civil rights and to end economic disparity) for ALL. We see that the puritan work ethic that bred capitalism and which embraces the notion that the poor must be lazy and therefore deserve their suffering is a flawed viewpoint and thus believe that it’s immoral to speak out and call the poor who need help “welfare queens”.
In fact, when equality, love and kindness, ending suffering, and ending war/violence are primary focuses in your moral framework- you see that many Christians are severely misguided.
Some come to ridicule and discount the entire religion- thus the booing. I was raised as a Christian and left the religion many years later, however I know and love many progressive Christians- but the most important thing to me (in order for a Christian to be credible) is that they have reconciled their faith with a humanist view of morality and embrace consistency (as does this post.) If we have a problem with “sexual deviance” and “perversions” as you refer to them- we would be FAR more outraged by our rape culture than we are by homosexuality. Two homosexuals engage in sex acts consensually- and you are more offended than by a frat bro raping an unconscious girl at a party. When that’s the case- how dare you stand on a soap box and say that you’re against sexual perversions when what you’re really against is your discomfort at the idea a person deciding on their own sexual identity or a person deciding to love a person of the same gender.
What is so wildly ironic about your comment is that 54% of Christians get divorced which is 2% higher than the national average and a massive percentage of people who are abused as children experience it from their pastors. You’re so persecuted! What you fail to remember is that you are the majority in our country, so if you have an issue with the Kardashians? Turn off the channel dear, it’s the christians in America who are keeping it all going.
This gave me goosebumps, and made me want to cry, all at the same time.
Thank you <3
Beautiful, my friend. 🙂
So are you, my friend <3 Thank you.
Yes. Just yes.
Thank you Shawna.
Thank you and Amen! Misplaced fear and definitely a clear laziness for critical thought are at work with these “protesting voices”. Glad you published this.
Thank you so much Joy! And I think there is definitely an element of some people who get their news and information from sources that are not truly credible, organizations that have used fear tactics many times.
Gretchen, this is mindblowingly wonderful and should be read far and wide. Thank you for your powerful voice.
Thank you so much Emily <3
I’m standing and applauding you! Because yeah, where were they when college students are being assaulted and their schools do nothing? (I just watched The Hunting Grounds, and it turned my stomach and made me glad my own daughter has already graduated, unscathed.) Where are they when female sportswriters get horrendous and violent tweets sent out into the cybersphere because they dare to work in what is perceived as a “man’s” field? Yes, where they hell are they? Because one thing I took away from Human Sexuality in college is that true sexual deviance is about 98% the purview of the straight, white, man. Probably the same one who doesn’t want to use a restroom with a trans-gendered male. I want to scream at them, Well cupcake, I’ve got news for you: you probably already have, and you came away from it just fine.
Thank you so much. Yes, we’ve all been using the public restrooms with transgender people all along. It seems to me (what I gather from the few who I know who are transitioning) is that there is some anxiety as to whether you will “pass” as your gender. There is sometimes ambiguity. And for those people having to enter the men’s restroom must be incredibly scary. As you state, sexual deviance is more aligned with straight white males (This is NOT misandry for those who may be reading this. This is based on studies) and trans people have incredibly high rates of being assaulted and killed by straight men. For them, going into the wrong restroom truly can be scary and dangerous. Then we had the case a few days ago,of a woman being forced to leave the ladies room in N.C. because the police did not believe she was a woman, even though her friends were vouching for her (<<how ridiculous that I even had to write that. Her friends vouched for her sexual identity.)
And the video going around of a self-appointed bathroom monitor going after a woman because she didn’t look sufficiently feminine to him. He’s condescendingly says, multiple times, “You’re dressed like a MAN.” The poor woman was in her doctor’s building getting her broken hand attended to; she likely has trouble dressing! But that is the kind of thing I am terribly afraid is going to soon escalate into violence.
Wow. I can say little more, other than I wholeheartedly agree with everything you’re saying. And said so very well. Thank you, thank you.
Thank you Kimberly!
You are so right!!
2016-04-29 16:35 GMT+02:00 Drifting Through My Open Mind :
> Gretchen Kelly posted: ” I hear you. You’re angry. I get it, I’m angry > too. I’m not talking to the people who are angry at Target because their > Pro Transgender bathroom policy flies in the face of their cherry picked > moral compass. I’m not under any obligation to respect th” >
Thank you Niek!
Absolutely brilliant and my sentiments exactly. Xxxx
Sent from my iPad
Thank you Helen!
This is brilliant and fantastic and makes me angry and sad that it is so necessary and true. Thank you.
Yes. It makes me angry and a little bit sad too. Well, mostly angry. Thank you Fiona.
This. This is just fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much for writing it.
Kai (@KaisLifeInWords) from
Kai’s Life in Words
Non-Binary Trans Person who just wants to piss in peace and believes everyone should have the same ability.
Amen. It is ridiculous that anyone even thinks this is an issue. Transgender people are already using the bathrooms of the sex that they identify with. It’s the ones that are not that are being abused and even raped. I am more afraid of a white man in a suit than of a transgender man who dresses as a woman.
I completely agree Jennifer. You are absolutely right. The transgender people who are forced to use the wrong restroom are the ones who are in a real, factual, it’s actually happened many times over, danger. As opposed to the fake made up threat.
Thank you Kai. Your last sentence is brilliant and has me chuckling. Maybe we should all have a tag line that reads “(fill in the blank) who just wants to piss in peace and believes everyone should have the same ability.”
Silence is an act of violence, too
Yes. What I teach my kids is, if you see something bad happening to someone and you do nothing about it (step in, go get help, speak out, etc) then you are complicit to a certain extent.
I adore you.
I don’t know who you are, but if I did, I’m sure I would feel the same. <3
This issue is so heartbreaking and there are truly some of us who disagree with both extreme sides but are getting labeled fear mongers unless you “believe what I believe-or else!”. See I don’t want people to be hurt, be bullied, or have their safety in question!!!! But as you believe people are “hiding” behind so called new activism I would say others hide their BELIEFS behind a tolerance flag. True tolerance means “the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with:” How many people really can do that? That would mean someone would go to a Trump rally and then hop over to a Clinton rally (I don’t wish to go to either to be honest!) Just because I believe this could be the wrong way to handle this issue (for a lot of reasons) doesn’t make me a bad person or someone hiding behind prejudice or “new found activism”….it just makes me a person with a different opinion praying an answer can be found together.
Deborah, I assure you that I would never attack someone for having a different opinion than me. (I’m a progressive person who’s grown up in the conservative south so I have spent a life time of understanding differences of opinions) This is not me taking issue with opinions. I’m taking issue with the fact that a large group of people are being fed lies about the dangers involved in the pro-transgender bathroom policies. Transgender people are the ones who are being discriminated against. Period. It’s really that simple. If Target allows Transgender people to use the bathroom they identify with, I am NOT being discriminated against. People used to be scared of sharing bathrooms and public spaces with black people. Those fears were rooted in fallacies and racism and hate. I WILL speak up when a group is being discriminated against. Believe me, I was extremely nervous to publish this. I realize I may offend people I know in real life. I could possibly lose friends over writing this. But the fear that’s being passed around is not based in fact and it is only serving to feed a narrative that paints a group of people as “other.” Even if you don’t buy into that, even if you have no problem with transgender people, if you are buying into the fear campaign (again, not based in facts) then you are inadvertently and I’m sure unwillingly contributing to that narrative. This is a civil rights issue. Plain and simple.
Something about human nature… we don’t seem to care about injustices when they’re clearly societal – that reflects poorly on us – but if we can blame it all on an out group? Excellent! Like the outpouring of outrage over rape culture after the new year’s assaults in Germany. Sure, the problem existed long before, and it still exists right now, but, at that one shining moment, it could all be blamed on Muslims, and so everyone cared. And if you protested anything about that, you were the one who was a rape apologist according to them. But as soon as life returns to normal, nobody gives a shit.
We have had and do have issues surrounding safety and privacy in public bathrooms. But that the person in the stall next to you might be trans really doesn’t seem to be one, and I really don’t understand how the proposed solution helps anyone. Forcing women into the men’s room, and men into the women’s room in the name of keeping predators out of our bathrooms makes no sense – trans is not latin for “predator”; it’s latin for “across,” and it implies nothing about the temperament or intentions of the people to whom it applies. The only problem it seems designed to solve is the problem of life not already being hard enough for trans people.
Wow. Yes. So much, yes. There have been zero incidences reported of trans people committing any aggressive acts in public restrooms. But there have been many of trans people being harassed and hurt in public restrooms when forced to go into the wrong restroom.
Sigh… the human nature thing you mention? I think some people don’t care until they think it’s going to affect them. Rape? Young black boys being shot? Crickets. But make them use a public restroom with transgender people and possibly (not really) expose them to predators parading as transgender? All hell breaks loose. It’s lack of empathy. Only caring about yours and those you can identify with.
Reblogged this on Daily Muse and commented:
People are fired up about this topic and this article is worth a re-blog. There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on and it has to stop. Thank you Gretchen Kelly!
When the HOT topic in the news is who gets to pee in whose bathroom overshadows (and almost deletes entirely) the story about our elected, longstanding, Speaker of the House admitting to and getting indicted for being child molester I’m concerned.
It’s time to wake up and step up for those who need a voice. Who cares who is in the public bathroom? Transgender people have been shamed enough. They are simply trying to live their lives being who they are instead of living a lie. They are brave and courageous and all they want is to lead their lives. I will always lend a hand and stand up for those who are working to find themselves.
I embrace diversity (all kinds including lifestyle) in this world and hold dear those who are shedding the constrains our society has placed upon them.
Speak up and give a voice to rape victims. Speak up and give a voice to abused women and men. Speak up for what is right and just but for heaven’s sake get over the self-righteous and very unfounded fear.
Thank you so much for reblogging this! Your last two paragraphs say it all. Embracing diversity and lifting up the people in this world who are breaking free from society’s constraints… those people are badasses. Brave and paving the way for people to be ever more comfortable being who it is they truly are.
You’re welcome, my pleasure and thank you! 🙂
Reblogged this on Reading, Drinking and Dancing with a Chaser of Snark and commented:
Amen! I could not have stated it better.
Be nice, or be quiet.
Thank you Michelle!
Reblogged this on The Haunted Librarian and commented:
I try to keep politics off of my site. However, I’m concerned hate is becoming the “religious” norm, especially against the paranormal community (more on that topic in June).
We could not possibly complain picket protest etc about every issue out there we would therefore not have time for anything else like work pay the bills raise our children etc
We protest upon those things that touch us
Touch our family and friends and hopefully those type of issues never touch you
A husband A father will not sit by idol and watch a guy follow his wife or daughter into the ladies room
And please…enlighten me…as a woman how will I know if the guy following me into the ladies room is a transgender or a predator?
I await your response…😉
If the woman following you into the bathroom was born a male, and is now transgender, then in the first place the husband or father is unlikely to know, and in the second place neither are you.
I am curious to know why you don’t feel it necessary to ask the very definitely male person who follows your small son into the bathroom if he is a Catholic priest, a college football coach, or a Republican Congressional Representative – all of which categories should worry you far more than a transgender woman in your restroom.
Reblogged this on Darke Conteur and commented:
I love this.
Reblogged this on L. Anne Carrington and commented:
This is perhaps one of the best blog posts I’ve read on the whole Target restroom debacle. Some excellent points made on it will make us think.
Would love to repost this, but I don’t think people will read something this long. Could you give us a shorter version? Please? So I can share?
Sigh… you are asking me to do the thing I’m the worst at. My writing achilles heel is length. While length is good for SEO I know it isn’t always inviting to readers. If I have time to edit it down and make it still true to what I’m wanting to say, I will let you know. If it gets put on HuffPost or another site they will likely edit it for length. I do appreciate you wanting to share…
Wow. I love this post. What a tremendous answer to the silent brigade. I agree with you about them. There are bad people doing things to women and children everywhere and in every office or form of office. From the top to the bottom. Great post. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you for saying what needs to be said. Thank you for stating it so clearly, so unequivocally. Thank you.
Gretchen – is this sentence accurate:
I’m talking to you… the people who have no issue with sharing a bathroom with LGBT people.
Or do you mean the people who DO have an issue sharing a bathroom? I’m a little confused by it and wonder if it a typo?
No, not a typo. My post was directed at people who appear to be genuinely concerned about predators taking advantage of the law to prey on women and children. I think that there are a large number of the boycotters who have no issue with LGBT, but are truly fearful of a straight man dressing up or entering the women’s restroom, emboldened by this law. I’m going to look it over and see if I can make that more clear. I hate ambiguity in my writing! I sometimes am so caught up in writing something that I don’t adequately explain some things.
I am looking for your email address so that I can send you a formal response that you are begging for in your blog. I find it ironic that you want to hear from those of us who are considering boycotting Target but don’t give your email address to do so? Thanks! Josh
I am a blogger. I’m not a pen pal. Your response is fine to post here. I accept comments and only delete them if they are abusive or hateful to other commenters. Your response would be public.
You just begged me to reply in your blog. Why would you hide from a well-written response?
I am inviting you to respond here. Just as everyone else is. You will see that most of us don’t shy away from lengthy responses.
Just to explain the way blogging works: we don’t give out personal information to readers. We are under no obligation to do so. We don’t even have to use our real name or photograph. We can be anonymous. It’s kind of a thing. I’m not sure why you are adverse to typing your response here, but it’s starting to look suspicious to me that you want to communicate privately. And actually kind of creepy. (maybe you should check out my blog post I linked up there, about women and the internet. It’s the hyperlink where I typed “women threatened online.”)
Also, you may want to brush up on the meaning of irony.
Do you understand the nature of a blog? You post in public, how creepy to demand someone’s email address. Ugh.
What a fabulous blog post! As the Quaker elders in my monthly meeting say when there is nothing left to say on a subject, “That Friend has spoken for me.” And for all the women and children endangered by those who look the other way when they are victimized. Thanks!
White male outrage? I’d say white and black. Thanks.
“Sex offenders are most likely to be white and in their early 30’s” – Sex Offenses and Offenders: An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault, by Lawrence Greenfield. I’m not making this up. I have no reason to. These are statistics. As the mother of a white male and a woman married to a white male I take no joy in these statistics. As a young girl who was abused by a white male I take no joy in these facts.
I was raised in a Lutheran Church. Nothing about my moral compass is cherry picked. Grouping everyone into the same category is always dangerous. My moral compass aligns with my Christian beliefs.
About .2 to .3 percent of the population considers themselves as transgender or about 700,000. And a significant amount of them are psychotic. So by allowing these people into the Target bathrooms, there may not be in an increase in assaults yet, but given more opportunities to do so, chances are the assaults will go up.
I AM concerned about the safety of our woman and children and always will be. Back in college, I knew I wanted to be an author and so I asked God to provide insight on what to write about. It was at the same time, that yahoo chat became popular. One girl after another that I met on there were victims of abuse… Either physical or verbal abuse. I didn’t run away from where God was pointing me to.
The abused women were all going through similar patterns of behavior. There was one girl who even gave me a detailed description of her own rape. I didn’t realize it at the time, but she NEEDED me to listen. I willfully and gladly did so because my father who was a Pastor drilled in me from day one how important it is to care about others.
I didn’t run from my newfound responsibility. Instead I wrote a novel called The Merry-Go-Round and made a movie called Gehenna. They both go into great detail about the horrors of living under the constant control of their supposed loving husbands and boyfriends. I wrote this to show these women that they aren’t alone and there is a way out of this man-made hell on earth. I have had other women who have read my novel come up to me with details of the exact same things happening to them. I gave them all the advice I could and made sure they understood just how damn important they really are since rebuilding their insanely low self esteem is always job one.
I’d be happy to sign the petitions about those other political things you mention. Please provide them for me and I will do so right away and I consider myself moderately conservative.
I would only follow an athlete again if said athlete comes out and repeatedly asks for forgiveness for his selfish ways. Otherwise, no, I don’t keep following them.
To be fair, I’m assuming you have come out against women violence on men? Otherwise you’d be a bit hypocritical in your argument.
The entire sentencing in America doesn’t make any sense and no one cares until there’s a public uproar. Maybe you weren’t following me on Facebook when I took the side of most men in this country when the NFL came out and announced that Ray Rice (running back for the Ravens) got a two game suspension for abusing his wife. It wasn’t until TMZ showed what really happened in the elevator that the NFL panicked and announced, “well maybe we didn’t know all the details” which was a lie. Men led outrage got the NFL to implement new policies for domestic abuse because of this.
The majority of the homeless women are crazy and therefore incapable of making sane decisions. I’d be in favor of more housing for the homeless, but again you neglect to add the men in there, too.
I don’t know anymore of the details of the child being killed after playing with a gun. So I can’t intelligently offer my opinion on the case without first doing a lot more digging.
I think you need to be careful lumping all people in the category of boycotting Target with people who rolled their eyes at you for rape. It’s insanely unfair. And makes people want to associate the two and therefore you are going to get people on your side because of course no one should roll their eyes at rape. And you making your readers believe that those who are boycotting target are in fact the same people who don’t care about rape. I would never roll my eyes at rape. I can’t think of one person who has my same moral compass who would.
All women have to do for men to stop viewing women as commodities is asking each one of those women who have taken a check to do any low-cut blouse or short skirt modeling gig to stop it. Just stop taking those easy checks already! Society will adjust to finding another way to sell just about all their products.
I care about all people, too, as well as those women and children in Target bathrooms. Target clearly does not. They only care about appeasing the liberals.
I am well aware of other predators. I do not go to Catholic churches because they refuse to allow Priests to marry wives. Thus breeding a safe-haven for men who don’t have any interest in women to be their priests and the results have been disastrous.
If you’re curious as to where you went off the rails, and devolved into hateful babble which no one will bother to read? It was at the sixth sentence: “And a significant amount of them are psychotic.”
Bingo!! I stopped reading right there. 🙂
then you clearly didn’t do the time to do your own research which i did. There is nothing hateful about telling the truth.
then you clearly didn’t do the time to do your own research which i did. There is nothing hateful about telling the truth.
Shush, Joshua…the adults are talking.
I don’t consider anyone who is incapable of hearing both sides of argument an adult. You stopped reading because you are the reason liberal TV shows are so popular because no one wants to have honest and heartfelt debates on the topics. I felt like I was being attacked for my position so I replied. You barely got into six sentence of my reply and couldn’t take it anymore. We both know which one of us needs to grow up and it’s clearly not me. I never run from a debate. You clearly do.
Yawn. Six sentences in you said something irredeemably ignorant, patently untrue and deliberately hateful.
Most people outgrow that. Let us know when you do, and then we’ll have a debate. Until then, hush up and listen to the adults — you might learn something.
Except your respect went out the window when you were badgering and harassing the woman who runs this blog for her email address so you can send her a “private” message. Wow.
Didn’t even notice that, drisnf! Yeesh, what a creep. Respect drops from zero to about negative six thousand…
I work with a transgendered man. He looks in every way a man. Beard, mustache, muscles from working out. He’s had the surgery, so now he can pee standing up. Why would any protesting parent want this guy walking into the women’s bathroom because some idiot legislators passed a law saying he HAS to because of his DNA??? They wouldn’t be able to have him arrested. Afterall, he’d just be following the law. This is the flip side to the issue these morons have in getting these laws passed.
I’m not trying to be mean in saying this, but, as a guy, the last person I want to see walk through the men’s room door is Caitlyn Jenner.
Well said!!! I appreciate you for what you’re saying. This letter made me think and wonder if I did what you said? I don’t think I did, but, I will try harder to be as vocal as you.
Well put, Ms. Kelly. I like what David Phelps said above — we should all try harder to be as vocal (and as compassionate and fair-minded!) as you on issues that matter.
This is the first thing I’ve actually felt compelled to share on the subject. Spot on! 🙌🏼
Absolutely “wow” – excellently said! Every … last.. bit… of… it!!! Sharing!!! Thank you for saying so well what many of us have been thinking, but couldn’t find the words! <3
There’s a lot on this blog post about fear, but no mention of how transgender people feel. If you have seven minutes to spare, listen to this transgender person taking on radio about using toilets: http://www.awayofseeing.net/talking-toilets-on-lbc
So you ask people what they have done in the face of all those things, but what my dear author have you done for all those things? Where were you when I was taped? Oh yeah probably on your computer typing this letter… Just because you don’t see people on Facebook speaking against it doesn’t mean they aren’t. This letter was ridiculous. I too am outraged at all those things either and I speak my mind and sign petitions on other issues too. I still don’t like targets policy simply because it’s opening a door to sexual deviants and not talking about the lgbt trans community either. Predators are predators and anyone can site stats from anywhere. So pardon me if I don’t pat you on the back for this letter. Because I am obviously not alone as many have signed the petition as well. You are entitied to your opinion but I would loved a detailed report on what you personally did for all those things that you listed. I’m sorry.. What? You don’t have a detailed list? Now whose silence is deafening? Thank you.
This should be required reading.
Thank you. I have specifically limited my time on Facebook because I didn’t want to read Target and Transgender bathroom debates. Most people don’t realize this is about more than bathrooms. Thank you for stating why in such an eloquent manner.
I have these days when I self identify, and feel like an animal. Sometimes it’s a cat, deer, dog, fox – i never know. I call myself a ‘transanimal’, and my transanimal name is Red Rover. If I show up in front of your house, drop my pants, and relieve myself of all human waste please don’t be offended, or call me out for it. Instead, come running out, and give me a hug along with a bowl full of some good scraps from your dinner the night before.
If transanimals like me grow in number, and someone tries to keep us from doing our business on green, grassy front lawns of peoples homes, please get a city ordinance passed that protects transanimals from cruel treatment. We’re really not crazy, nor are we struggling with any sort of psychosis. We just identify, and think we’re animals that’s all. We’re looking forward to when we can have certain body parts replaced with animal parts. For me I’m hoping for dog parts, and the day I can howl at the moon, or the siren on the ambulance driving past.
For all transanimals out there — thank you for caring.
Just want to put the out there buddy, like any other animal that’s wild that poops in my yard I’m calling animal control. The point where you lost that argument is when you said in front of my house. I normally don’t invite people over to use my restroom ( young or old male or female gay or straight). As I’m pretty sure you don’t invite individuals to your home to use your restroom.
I’m not a big, or even small, basketball fan, but that is a 3 Pointer from under to other basket, with a swish. Its relly hard to add anything but – reblogging
Thank you so much Bob!
You’re very welcome. You certainly started a conversation, not all of it pleasant – so much ignorance, knee jerk reactions, and lack of understanding, but support and amplification too.
Thank you Gretchen for putting my raging thoughts into words. Abuse in Bathrooms by transgendered individuals is a made up issue just like voter fraud has been. But when there are REAL proven issues, it falls on deaf ears.
Reblogged this on cabbagesandkings524 and commented:
And how do you know we weren’t livid about these things?
Because it wasn’t blasted over social media and news.
If you think it was not blasted by the news you were not listening to the right news stations! All of the mentioned things were heinous; all sicken me. But whether the silence is real or merely perceived does not mean we should continue down the wrong path.
The solution is so simple. Keep men’s and women’s washrooms separate and also have a multi- gender washroom similar to the family washroom that already exists.
“separate but equal”, just like in the movie ‘the help’, when the black maids were given their own toilet because ‘they’re gonna harm our babies with their diseases.’ simpler solution: let trans people pee without being forcibly outted by “multi-gender” bathrooms.
Why can’t Trans gender people use the family bathrooms. I have an uncle who has downs and when he is with me he uses the family bathroom.
Because being transgender is not the same as Down Syndrome. Seriously? When a transgender woman wants to use the restroom, she is welcome to be in the women’s room with me because she is a WOMAN. I’m not scared of her, I’m scared of men. THAT is rape culture. Why should she have to use a special marked restroom??
If someone is uncomfortable about the possibility of sharing a restroom with a transgender woman (or a cisgender male sexual predator who is already doing something illegal and is not going to be stopped by stick figure in a dress or a law targeting transgender people) then she should use the family bathrooms. Except … good luck finding one of those everywhere you travel in life. They’re not everywhere.
No, they’re not; but that isn’t a half bad idea.
Let me make clear that I agree with every word Gretchen wrote. As far as I’m concerned, women are those who tell me they are women; men as those who tell me they are men; and where either one of them pees is not my business so long as it isn’t on the carpet. What I’m thinking of is a strategic approach to shift the momentum of the concern trolls. The unspoken assumption has been that the people who find another place to pee are those who are marginalized. I want to turn that on its head. I want to act as though, every single time I hear anyone clucking about how they’re only worried about the chiiiilllldreeeen, what they’ve just admitted to is a phobia which will sadly prevent them and their offspring from using most public bathrooms.
To that, specifically, I can cluck in sympathy and explain, “I’m sorry your fear of the other people in public restrooms is making things so hard on you. Have you considered anti-anxiety medication? Oh? Well, if that wouldn’t help, what about those individual, family-sized bathrooms some places have for people with small kids or others who just need a little help one way or another… would those do for you? They have a private lock and everything, with only one family inside at a time. I’ve seen them at a lot of places — even a couple of the big airports, now! What’s that? Most places still don’t have them? Oh, I suppose you’re right; I guess that must be pretty hard on people in your situation, huh? Do you suppose you could get up a petition to put family-use bathrooms — with locks, so they won’t trigger you! — in more government buildings, by law? I bet that’d help, wouldn’t it? …? …?.. well gee, you don’t have to be like that about it!”
Because if you were, you’d be all over social media about *them*, too.
Some of us are/were… but many of my friends have stopped following me (I have a tendency to over-post)…. and I’m just a nobody, anyway. BUT… I will still post about these issues.
Anonymous said: <— Moron
This is addressed to a collective whole. The one million who signed a letter to boycott. I’m not saying that *you* have not been concerned with other issues. I’m saying that as a whole? There was not this kind of ground swell when these other things happen over and over again. I really thing the AFA and other groups are framing this issue to draw people in with fear. I see manipulation of the masses. I would love to see this kind of response to any of the other atrocities that happen.
You sound as foolish as they come. It is and always will be about safety.
What she is saying makes perfect sense.
And she just gave you cold hard indisputable facts that what you’re afraid of in the bathrooms is all around you, everywhere you go. Did you even bother to click on the red links or do you prefer to just remain blissfully ignorant and sit on your ass all day going from Facebook post to Facebook post expressing manufactured outrage? The “safety” myth, was already debunked. Educate yourself please.
Yes – it *is about safety. More trans women were killed in the United States in 2015 than in any year prior. This climate of willful ignorance and fear will only lead to more assaults and murders of trans women. Trans individuals have been using restrooms since restrooms have been around, and there has never been a safety issue. This does not put your children, or you, at risk. Creating this huge fuss over nothing and forcing trans women into men’s spaces, however, *does create a safety issue, and puts them at additional risk. As you “think of the children”, think of the trans children who are put at risk by dicriminatory bathroom bills. Think about the trans children who are reading all this negativity and feeling hopeless about their futures. Exercise some compassion. Educate yourself.
“This is addressed to a collective whole. The one million who signed a letter to boycott. I’m not saying that *you* have not been concerned with other issues. I’m saying that as a whole? There was not this kind of ground swell when these other things happen over and over again. I really thing the AFA and other groups are framing this issue to draw people in with fear. I see manipulation of the masses. I would love to see this kind of response to any of the other atrocities that happen.”
Gretchen, then you clearly were not paying attention to the whole NFL Ray Rice scandal. The NFL originally suspended Ray Rice for two games after abusing his wife with his fists.
There was a swell of national outcry, specifically with all of the sports networks who are generally hosted by men and some women. The outrage got even bigger when the video came out on TMZ showing what he did to his wife in the elevator, knocking her out cold.
There was a swell of outrage which led to Ray Rice being fired from his job in the NFL and never getting back into it again. The NFL was forced to change it rules with how they handle domestic violence after that.
That was like a year ago. Maybe you should actually do some research on these things that you claim matter to you and that you claim no one cares enough about when clearly the majority of the American sports talk radio certainly cared.
“I’m not saying that *you* have not been concerned with other issues.”
You just accused all of us of exactly that. Are you backpedaling now? I think you owe a ton of us an apology for how terrible you represented us in your letter blog.
I apologize that you weren’t pointed out explicitly for being a complete moron. But, you appear to be a practitioner of the selective outrage highlighted here. You so nicely promoted your “outrage” at the NFL, yet that’s such an easy copout point. It’s easy because everyone was outraged.
More important, what are you thoughts about the more sensitive topics brought up? What’s your stance on the anti-trans policies of North Carolina, Alabama, and other backward thinking areas? What about Black Lives Matter? What about anti-Muslim fear mongering? Come back with some cogent thoughts and debate and we’ll consider apologizing to you for failing to note your thoughts.
Since you are clearly a person of all action for all causes and find my NFL cause to be too lazy, I think you should know what I really did to help:
Back in college, I knew I wanted to be an author and so I asked God to provide insight on what to write about. It was at the same time, that yahoo chat became popular. One girl after another that I met on there were victims of abuse… Either physical or verbal abuse. I didn’t run away from where God was pointing me to.
The abused women were all going through similar patterns of behavior. There was one girl who even gave me a detailed description of her own rape. I didn’t realize it at the time, but she NEEDED me to listen. I willfully and gladly did so because my father who was a Pastor drilled in me from day one how important it is to care about others.
I didn’t run from my newfound responsibility. Instead I wrote a novel called The Merry-Go-Round and made a movie called Gehenna. They both go into great detail about the horrors of living under the constant control of their supposed loving husbands and boyfriends. I wrote this to show these women that they aren’t alone and there is a way out of this man-made hell on earth. I have had other women who have read my novel come up to me with details of the exact same things happening to them. I gave them all the advice I could and made sure they understood just how damn important they really are since rebuilding their insanely low self esteem is always job one.
Let me guess, you haven’t gone so far as to write a whole novel and make a movie about the cause you claim to care so much about?
Do you want a standing ovation for re-sharing blog posts and attacking people you don’t know crap about and feeling the need to call them morons since you probably don’t have the education needed to string two sentences together, let alone an entire book? Does it make you feel better to try and bring people down to your level of intelligence?
Congrats on doing almost nothing!
Ugh, Christians like you are utterly terrifying. You’re sarcastic, defensive and so hostile, you make me so uncomfortable. Of course you’ll think that’s the Holy Spirit doing the convicting instead of your own inability to handle an internet conversation with some tact and gentleness that the Bible talks about. This is exactly the reason why I entertained Christianity for a moment and then after encountering people like you, ran as fast as I could.
You are clearly missing the point of the sarcasm.
The person I was saying this to attacked me with no regard to knowing me one bit and called me a moron.
That person is the one with zero tact. And you’re a close second for attacking me for no reason.
God is perfect. Humans are imperfect. Maybe that should help will you better with understanding Christians.
Oh I see, another Christian who is now claiming that he gets to use “sarcasm” as a way of communicating when the Bible clearly calls Christians to a higher standard of communication both online and off. How convenient you drop the scripture in First Timothy that says teachers are held to a higher standard of conduct, now you’re saying you get to be sarcastic! Christians are always the first ones to attack other people for what we say online and then give themselves and excuse for what they say, even though they enter these conversations saying they are representing Jesus. All of the sudden when called out for their behavior do you suddenly notice how they say “I’m just human!” It’s such a lack of integrity and shows that they’ve not actually internalized the experience of Christ that they keep talking about online .
Hey Josh, are you going to demand my email be presented to you so you can send me a “private” message, just like you demanded the author provide you with one? You know, since you’re so respectful of women? I’m sure you’ll have an excuse for that too.
Man, I’m so glad people like you remind me to never consider Christianity again. I really wanted to, I was so intrigued and your behavior here – your hostility, your sarcasm – just shows me that it’s not really true.
Word! Are you running for public office? If you are, I promise to vote for you. You get it, and your eloquence about what is happening in this country is stunning! Yes, yes, yes!
Haha! Well, thank you! No, not running for public office. 😉
I think that the reason that you hear only silence, Gretchen, is that you are so far removed from any conservative, traditional or Christian outrage that you simply do not know. What makes you think that such people do not care about the rape of females no matter what their age? Or when wife and child abuse occurs? Do we not have laws from the beginning of our country designed to separate and incarcerate such perpetrators. Is it not consrvatives that are pushing for “Jessica’s Law?” Was it not conservatives that demanded accountability for a President that violated the definitions of sexual harassment and tried to cover it up, because we believe that “Character counts!” Who fought for him and supported him? Apparently, one’s political leanings are more imprtant than one’s character. Was it Christians that worked to ridicule and revile Biblical sexuality, that has caused such hyper-sexuality in the culture promoting pornography, promiscuity, prostitution, cohabitation, adultery, divorce, homosexuality and abortion to avoid the natural consequences of sex? The by-products of this promotion of sex has led to increases in abuse, pedophilia, rape, incest, a sex slave trade called human trafficking and the spread of STD’s and AIDS. Was it not the very same people that promoted this new sexual morality, really just old sexual immorality, that are now promoting these gender neutral bathrooms? In this decades long battle over sexual morality in the culture, what makes you think that this is the first time that conservatives and Christians have spoken up against such things?
You write about how such perpetrators are indeed everywhere. Have you not noticed that most people are not concerned with the transgenders as much as they are with the perpetrators pretending to be transgenders in order to extend opportunities? The cry against such opportunities is the same motivation as it was for you to stand guard at the door or cry out against rape for others
You make me sick, get off the page pls. This has nothing to do with religion, the only silence we should hear is from you.
I despise so-called people like you. No, I’m not religious, but I will fight your mangy ass for Douglas Miller’s right to say what HE thinks. I don’t give a rat’s ass if your butt is offended. As far as I am concerned, every word you wrote was offensive. Put that in your bong and smoke it!!
That was not me, by the way. I’m going to assume that was someone else named Gretchen. I do not kick anyone off my blog unless they are being abusive or threatening. Just want to make that clear.
If you do delete comments to your posts, please consider deleting two posts in which they use the condition of the mentally disabled to insult each other. One is signed Keaton and other Brian. I don’t think we should a forum to anyone who insults those who do can not defend themselves.
I was just answering an article by David Brooks of the New York Times, I did not agree with much, but he did believe that we need to do more talking from one side of the political spectrum to the other to explain our views. Thank you for your dedication to free speech and freedom of conscience. I believe the same.
Well…..you want people to post and when they try to engage in dialogue with you or anyone on the left, they are silenced….this sounds like hypocracy to me
Jason, again that is an anonymous person either using my name or who is also named Gretchen. I would never speak like that to anyone on my blog or in real life. I also do not silence people on my blog.
Your rude reply invalidated your previous points. How disappointing! You are showing your intolerance. Tsk, tsk.
Dude, you are more than a little nauseating trying to paint conservative Christians in a positive light in all this. Let this liberal, bible believing Christian lush are a little secret with you: you came out of it looking like the smug, self satisfied asshole many of you guys are.
More time reading the bible dude. Less time reading Ayn Rand, and listening to all the speeches of Reagans you have taped.
Dude, you are more than a little nauseating trying to paint conservative Christians in a positive light in all this. Let this liberal, bible believing Christian share a little secret with you: you came out of it looking like the smug, self satisfied asshole many of you guys are.
More time reading the bible dude. Less time reading Ayn Rand, and listening to all the speeches of Reagans you have taped.
You give new meaning to the word nauseating!! Mix some ‘revolting’ in there and we’re getting close. What’s so damn funny to me is that you’re doing the same dame thing, you sanctimonious little twit!!!
Well, we can all study the Bible a little more, don’t you think? As a missionary in Mozambique, my job was to teach a seminary education to indigenous pastors. In retirement now, I still teacj 2-3 times per week. So yes, I have to keep up with my studies.
You are going to have to point out what was Rand and Reagan. I see no influence in my writings. But I would not necessarily be opposed to either.
I apologize for being seemingly smug and nauseating. .It was not my intent I only asked questions to give people something to think about. Did you give any thought to the questions that I asked? You are welcomed to challenge them.
Well, I guess, I could start with your assumption that conservatism is necessarily Christian. My seminary education, while conservative theologically, certainly wasn’t onservative politically.
I must admit, I find myself wondering (if you like Reagan so much) why lying about sexual harassment is so bad (Clinton) but waging an Illegal (Reagan) or immoral (BushIi) war under false pretences is ok (and Christian?) I will admit, I have conflated Reagan and Bush here, but both are defended by the Religious right, the very folks in the centre of this current travesty.
And I will help you…one involved two families and was tragic the other involved millions of families and was unspeakably tragic.
I didn’t say that, Anonymous. You might note that I talked about conservatives in the first part of my paragraph as far as legal matters are concerned, and Christians when referring to Biblical sexuality. Not all conservatives follow Biblical sexuality. I am not sure that most Christians follow such restrictions anymore as well preferring to follow the culture or their own desires. I do not conflate the two, as there are many Christian liberals and not all conservatives are Christians. There are conservatives that are such for economic reasons and others with traditional views on liberty.
I don’t defend everything that is done by consevatives, anymore than I think that you could defend in your Christian life, the actions of secular progressivism. I will say this. If you are blaming the false pretenses on WMD’s, then you also have to blame Clinton as well. He, British Intelligence, and even Russian intelligence all said that he had WMD’s and a history of using them against his own citizens in the Kurds. And note that Saddam Hussein, himself, never denied having them. Liberals were even saying that we should not go in there, because our troops did not have enough protection against WMD’s. Nobody said that Bashar al_Assad had WMD’s and yet he managed to have and use them in spite of warnings
What would you do after 9/11? Would you have done the same thing that we did after attacks on our Marines in Beirut, or the USS Cole in the Persian Gulf, or our embassies in Africa – almost nothing? The primary purpose of a nation is to defend its citizens here and abroad. It would be nice if we could just be nice to everyone and they would be nice to us. But some people look upon niceness as weakness and subservience. There are those in the world that would gladly remove your faith from the face of the earth, some by eliminating your ability to speak on such subjects, others by killing you outright, as they have proven on videotape on a regular basis.
Clinton’s indiscretion affected more than two families. It established a hypocrisy in liberal politics that excused the politicians if their politics were right. And the reverse, to go after anyone if their politcs were wrong.
LOL. That’s rich. You folks have found a way to blame us for that as well. Bush lied thru his teeth but it’s the fault of the democrats and Liberals cause we didn’t stop him. Never mind the whole “you are for the war or against the troops” tripe you people loved to throw in our faces.
Do you people even listen to yourselves?
Well, I fold. You win, your moral superiority wins out in the end.
Jesus help is all.
Are you actually comparing Bill Clinton getting a BJ from a consenting adult as being the same as children getting raped? Wow. This is exactly why I ran as far away from Christianity as I could. Thank you for validating that decision.
I didn’t make that comaprison at all. I am merely pointing out that secular progressives have pushed the culture to a hyper-sexualized promiscuity that has resulted in numerous problems for our society.
Note that our concern over opening bathrooms to the gender of choice is not against transgenders, but against opportunistic pedophiliac perpetrators would be able to take opportunities to be in positions with young people.
Gretchen Kelly, wrote in the article, “Those predators you’re so worried will sneak into the Target bathroom? They’re all around you. They are your Priest, your kid’s coach, your neighbor, your uncle, your youth group leader, your United States Speaker of the House. They are a savvy bunch, these sick bastards. They flock to places where they can gain your trust. They go to great pains to appear normal and friendly. They don’t sport a beard and a dress and waltz into the bathroom to attack your women and children.”
If such peretrators are willing to go so far as to plan their careers around opportunities to be close to children, then what makes you think that they will not take advantage of a law that says that you can enter a bathroom or locker room and political correctness will protect you from challenged for being in the wrong room?
Nothing you wrote was factual.
My point is that pedophiles can be a priest, boy scout leader, an uncle, a father. They are all around us. Transgendered people are no more prone to that than others. Having separate bathrooms for a group of people that happens to make you feel icky is not a reason to single that group out.
You’re wrong. Studies show that trans people do not molest the way repressed religious people do – the number one offenders.
If you “feel icky” around anyone you need to seek help, not marginalize others.
Thanks for the reply. I don’t think they will because if they were doing that? They were already doing that! What about this can’t you all understand? Predators don’t follow the law, for God’s sake. Apply some common sense. The same predators who’ve been lurking around bathrooms will still be there, you all are just attaching your fear of what you don’t understand to this issue.
Douglas Miller, I notice you like to use “conservative” and “Christian” hand-in-hand. Those two are not tied to one another. I’d also like to bring up, since you conviently left this out, all of the “conservatives” getting caught engaging in behavior that you would find morally reprehensible. You also failed to mention the perversions done by men of God. Most importantly if you were a true Christian, you would be spreading love, not hate. Please educate yourself. I felt like I lost some brain cells reading your post. Also, stop picking and choosing morals from the Bible to suit your needs. It’s outplayed and hypocritical.
No, I didn’t mention the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition either. My bad. I have already explained above why I switched from conservative to Christian and that I do not hold that the terms are synonymous. After all, every Democratic president has claimed Christianity as well.
Yes, many conservatives and Christians have committed morally reprehensible behavior. “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” [Romans 3:23] I am pretty sure that that includes me. The big question is what do we do with our sins? Do we repent of them as Jesus commands or do we revel in them and celebrate them?
Yes, it is a shame what those Catholic priests did. Jesus has some hard words for those that hurt children. [Matthew 18:6] Furthermore, they broke their oaths of celibacy in the act as well. There is no excuse for the priests, nor for the Church to cover it up. It has always been known that there is an especially high number of homosexuals among the priesthood; and indeed, most of the pedophilia that took place (80%) was homosexual in nature. But even there, the number of Catholic priests that took part in this abomination, was relatively small at 0.4% while (it still pains me to say it because I used to be a teacher) teachers that do this are at 0.8%. So their faith and oaths must have done some good.
Since becoming a Christian, I have spent most of my career and vacations either teaching on Christianity or doing charity work in either the inner-city or in some of the poorest nations in the world. So what makes you think that I am spreading hate and not love? Is it not a stereotype that you have about conservative Christians? How is it that you can accuse me of picking and choosing what morals to suit my needs. Again, is that nat part of your stereotype? Finally, you judge me as a hypocrite. On what basis?
I apologize for the loss of your brain cells.
Why is J.F.K. such a hero but Bill Clinton is a dog? J.F.K. had more than 1 affair in the White House. Charlotte is receiving the brunt of all this, when they had actually gone for it. Raleigh and Governor McRory And Charlotte Mayor Wwere thre ones who started the up roar. You can bet who will not be reelected come November!
Because when John F. Kennedy was alive as President, the general public had no idea that in this Camelot, it was King John having the affairs, and not Queen Jackie. And he was a very popular President that was assassinated. An assassins bullet fired at a President or any eleted official is a shot fired at Demoracy itself. At such a time, it is difficult to distinguish the two.
The “natural consequences of sex” often included death back in biblical times and right on up until modern medicine caught up with and surpassed what ancient Greeks had (and lost to history). And at alarming rates. Women died from infections. Women died from things like gestational diabetes. Women died from things like complications with labor and delivery. Women died because of miscarriages. Women died from fetuses being fertilized and growing outside the uterus. Women bled to death. Women were carved up by butchers without much training who left them disfigured at best. Women died in poverty with their children. Girls died from pregnancy complications after being married off too young. Babies died from lack of nourishment. Babies died from complications in delivery. Babies died moments after birth from genetic disorders or diseases. Babies died of exposure. Babies died from lack of food or care after their mothers died in labor or soon after.
You want to go back to all that because it seems purer somehow than modern medicine?
“Abortion” is not a single medical procedure and the uses of it should be between the woman and her doctor. One woman might need and “abortion” because she’s miscarried and the remaining tissue is causing an infection. One might be an 11 year old raped by an uncle. Another might be a mother of four who can’t afford another mouth and is horrified to discover her birth control failed. Another might be in an abusive relationship and terrified a baby will not only ruin her chances of escaping, but forever tie her to her abuser. Another might be a year from graduating college with honors and on a path to greatness that motherhood would derail. Another might have wanted a baby for years, but just found out hers would be born with a debilitating and terminal illness that might allow her newborn a few years of excruciating pain before death. Another might have multiple fetuses growing and not be able to support them all physically or might have one that’s died and need to remove it to give the other(s) a chance).
By lumping all these other sanctimonious ideas in your rebuttal of the original poster, you reveal that your support of such discrimination laws has nothing to do with the safety or health of women, but rather the control and denigration of anyone who is unable or unwilling to be a straight, white, cis male “in god’s image.”
Who is rejecting modern medicine ? Yes, death has a chance as a natural consequence of sex. The greatest opportunities for death as a natural consequence of sex is a promiscuous society in which STD’s are easily passed from one to another. And we lose hundreds of thousands of people each year. Of course, in as you say “biblical times,” there was no cure for such diseases. But Somebody understood enough to know that virginity until marriage and faithful marriage would create a closed relationship in which STD’s could not or rarely enter. Uganda was the only nation in Africa to make headway against AIDS. How did they do it? By promoting the ABC program, but the only part that was successful was, “Be Faithful.” Even in the United States, where we can cure most STD’s, 25% of females between the ages of 15-19 have or have had an STD. Now if those statistics were AIDS instead of the curable list, we ight be losing 6000/day like what is happening in Africa.
I understand the potential problems of pregnancy. Certainly And if that was the reason for pro-life should mean pro-life for the mother as well. From a personal family problem, my sister-in-law was carrying their third son, when with just a month to go, something went terribly wrong. The child was likely to die and take the mother with her. Devout Catholics, both of them, they went to the church for a special dispensation and received it immediately. Of course, the big difference is that they wanted this child, but it is hard to imagine a husband choosing to lose his wife or for their other sons to lose their mother for a child that they do not know. Nevertheless, they named the child, Andrew, and had him baptized and given a funeral. He was not just a lump of cells. And if that was the reason for abortions, then there would be no deate. The problem is that all of your examples are a very small number as the reason for abortion, less than 2%. The greatest genocide of all time is that inflicted upon those innocents who should be “as safe as in their Momma’s womb.”
“…most people are not concerned with the transgenders as much as they are with the perpetrators pretending to be transgenders in order to extend opportunities?”
Because that simply isn’t happening.
Mr Miller, I worry more my kids will be raped by a priest than I worry about them being raped by a trans. There are plenty of cases to support the former, but where are the cases supporting the latter?
Was it Christians that worked to ridicule and revile Biblical sexuality, that has caused such hyper-sexuality in the culture promoting pornography, promiscuity, prostitution, cohabitation, adultery, divorce, homosexuality and abortion to avoid the natural consequences of sex? The by-products of this promotion of sex has led to increases in abuse, pedophilia, rape, incest, a sex slave trade called human trafficking and the spread of STD’s and AIDS.
“Biblical sexuality”? Which “Biblical sexuality” are you referring to? The incest that supposedly took place in Noah’s family to repopulate the Earth? Lot fucking his daughters? David and Solomon with piles of wives and concubines? In Leviticus 15:28-30, where women are required to perform animal sacrifices for the grave sin of menstruating normally? Cutting off a woman’s hand if she accidentally touches a man’s genitalia while helping her husband fight him off?
The spread of STDs has been reduced by two things: condoms and sex education, two things which Christians typically are busy waging war against. Know what reduces abortions? Sex education and condoms and birth control. Again, things Christians don’t want. (It should be noted that in Texas, where abstinence-only is taught, they have the highest rate of *second* teen unmarried pregnancies.)
Also, I would like to bring to your attention the fact that all of the things you mentioned occur among Christians at about the same rate as anyone else. Christians watch porn (actually the highest rates of porn consumption in America are in the “bible belt”), Christians have abortions and divorces, Christians co-habitate, and there are lots of gay Christians. Oh, and Christians molest children… and get away with it because churches hide that behavior.
I will also point out that the states with the best secular sex education also have the *lowest* rates of teen pregnancy, STD infections, abortions, and rapes. In other words, you bible-thumping fuckwit, you’re doing it wrong.
So take your “morality” and your “biblical sexuality” and fuck off.
So for one thing we have laws to protect the privacy and comfort of women so they can go to the bathroom, it’s not a LGBT thing as no one cares where you go to the bath room as long as you aren’t invacing the rights of others, But if you are a predatory male then the ladies should have recourse, not make it a legal defense for them to invade the ladies room because they are gender confused. There are a .ooo1% gender confused so they should iflict their confustion on the rest of the populace? nuts.
As a woman, this arguement is baseless. How does the writer know how each male has defended the women in his life. Target Boycott is in the forefront because Target INVITED straight men into women’s, WOMEN’S bathrooms and fitting rooms. Not proveded unisex bathrooms. Why should womens rooms be tampered with and all those women be needlessly exposed to threat. It’s absurd.
Please stop and do some research before you post a public comment like “target has invited straight men into women’s bathrooms”. Are you uneducated or simply misinformed? Transgender individuals look and live their lives as the opposite sex. I don’t believe that constitutes a “Straight” man. Would you rather have an individual who is dressed and looks like a man using your women’s restroom just because they have a vagina under their clothes? Would that make you more comfortable? Or would you rather have a person dressed as a female (probably more attractive than most females you know) using the men’s restroom because they have a penis under their clothes. Please, provide me with an explanation. Which one makes you feel more uncomfortable?
I can assure you, at some point in your sheltered life you have shared a restroom with a transgender individual and did not know.
Moving forward please keep your ignorant and incorrect thoughts to yourself. And please please please…. Do not have exposure to those more simple minded than you. I hate to think you can have influence on others.
you should go to Live Leak right now and watch the video of the completely straight, dressed as a man, man ask the manager of target if he can go into the women’s room… and the manager answers him, YES. he then says. even if women have a problem with it?… manager replies…yep… just tell them to come see me. this man was making a point and did not have one attribute of a transgender but was told to go on in.
Really go to target and ask for yourself. All a person has to do know is say he or she is transgender and they are allowed to use what ever bathroom they want no matter how the look. So a straight male could simply say I’m transgender and walk right into the woman room period ended. That is all it takes I asked 3 different Target Stores all is needed is I say I am transgender and a free pass to any bathroom I want. That is the problem with their policy not if transgender are in there or not the way the policy is written and carried out is all it takes is words to get in not looks.
What do you think will happen when these straight men enter the women’s restroom? Have you guys ever been in a women’s restroom? It’s not like we have urinals out in the open and we are flouncing around with our genitals showing… we have stalls, with (ususally) locks on the doors. If I am shopping at Target and a man dressed in men’s clothing comes in the restroom while I am there, I wouldn’t be worried… what’s he going to see? On the other hand, if a person with a penis dressed in women’s clothing were forced to use the men’s restroom, I can easily imagine the abuse that person is likely to suffer, ranging from probable verbal abuse to possible physical assault.
If a straight man wants to hurt a woman, there’s much easier places to do it than a women’s restroom.
If that is going on at Target, then obviously there is a problem. However, none of this would have been an issue if the legislators or North Carolina hadn’t started this crazy notion that transgender people are a danger to society and therefore need to use the “right” bathroom in their opinion.
I think you’re a tad bit retarded. Target never invited straight men into the ladies room. Target simply stated that transgendered guests can use the restroom they are comfortable in. Good job aiding the writers argument though. I feel like Walmart is more your speed anyways..
Let’s talk about mental retardation for a moment. Let’s talk about you.
When someone comes to you and says they were born a man but are actually a woman on the inside, do you ask for proof? Or do you just assume they are telling the truth? When Target says “transgendered” – which by the way doesn’t even require that the person in question attempt to physically mimic the opposite sex – can use the bathroom they feel comfortable in, do you actually think Target has a mind reading device that tells them if some Andre the Giant looking guy is actually a six year old girl? Or is everyone supposed to carry a note from their psychiatrist certifying what their imaginary gender is?
A mental retard I imagine would have difficulty figuring these things out. The rest of us understand that this is one huge invitation to chaos.
Brian, what about this? This is an actual biologically born woman that was kicked out of the women’s room because she didn’t look like a woman and someone complained. She was asked for proof but didn’t have ID. Is this ok? Should she have been trusted? Why don’t we just ask everyone for ID?
Anonymous is anonymous. A coward who hides beyond that username because he/she doesn’t have the courage to identify as anything but anonymous.
I might disagree with Gretchen, and do on this issue. Yet, she invites me to this table to talk, and tell her what I think. I admire her for her writing skill, and the way she articulates her convictions.
We’re all on a journey in life struggling through difficult issues that confront us. Don’t make it more difficult than it already is by your sordid comments.
So, for anyone including you, “Anonymous”, that will hide, and resort to debasing name calling, please, take your wares elsewhere. And, let those who can sit at this table, and share their convictions, whether pro and con to the author do so without making it personal.
Gretchen reveals her character stands far above yours by not lowering herself to your level, and far too wise to ever do so.
Too many Anonymouseseses! It is hard to distinguish which Anonyous is which..
Reblogged this on 2ndaspect and commented:
Cannot say it better!!!
Well said, Gretchen. And thank you for pointing out the facts: “…in states with pro-Transgender bathroom policies, there has been no increase in assaults.”
The argument that a transgender woman (someone born with male parts who identifies as a female) would go into the ladies room to rape women and children has always been a red herring and a perfect example of fear mongering to perpetuate hatred and intolerance.
These same allegations of “they’re raping our women” were directed at black men not so long ago. Here’s an excellent article about the history of this phrase: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2015/06/the_deadly_history_of_they_re_raping_our_women_racists_have_long_defended.html
If a straight male rapist decided to dress as a woman and enter a Target bathroom … they can do that regardless of Target’s policies … no? I don’t believe there is any form of genitalia check on the way in. Making it illegal for a transgender woman to use the ladies room in public places is bigotry. Pure and simple.
No. The actual red herring here is what you’ve posited: that anyone is talking about a feminized male raping women.
No, this goes to the question of objective reality. Objective reality is observable. You can observe someone’s physical sex. You can’t observe the contents of a person’s mind.
No, the actual, real non-fish objection here is that you’re changing the standard from something objective and measurable to something subjective, unmeasurable, and completely imaginary. How is someone supposed to evaluate whether another person ACTUALLY feels like a woman inside? What measure of reality are you going to use to differentiate between actual transgenders and those who are out to cause mischief?
Are we all now going to be required to carry a note from a psychiatrist certifying the “gender” of our mental state? Are you going to ask the person claiming to be transgender to prove it by singing a show tune? Are you going to check their clothing fashions?
But wait, that’s gender stereotyping! A male to female transgender could look like Larry the Cable Guy. There’s nothing saying that a female must take on traditionally female roles and appearances, right?
So why don’t you address that instead of inventing not-very-clever strawmen.
You said it – I’ve never once heard someone say they’re worried about ACTUAL transgender people assaulting anyone, yet people are constantly talking about it like that’s the only concern people have!
That’s the whole point of this article–suddenly, people are worked up about the possibility of males raping women and children–but only in Target bathrooms. Because transgender. The blogger is pointing out the ludicrous hypocrisy of thousands boycotting Target, over imagined, possible rapes, but who never boycotted the sports teams, colleges, record labels, etc., that turned a blind eye to real, actual, committed assaults against real, actual human beings. Hence the logical conclusion that the boycotters’ concern about rape is phony, and their true concern is about society recognizing and accepting transgender people.
I think carrying a note is fine. Most psychiatrists write a transition note for patients in transition until we reach the point we can change our legal identification. Of course there will be a lot more masculine looking cis women being bothered to show their ID than transwomen since there are a lot more of them and they aren’t as likely to be going out of their way to hide any masculine traits.
Reblogged this on Sophia Sojourn and commented:
This is one worth the space here. She captures my frustration with these arguments – especially since I am in the group of people they are throwing under then bus.
As a Christian transwoman and victim of sexual assault, Thank you. A thousand times, thank you. reblogged at http://www.sophiasojourn.com
i think what makes me the sickest from all the commenting, isn’t the fact that the topic is right or wrong, it’s how people can so easily call someone out, and use names, that don’t even know the person, to me, thats more absurd than the actual topic. I think to be honest that’s why all the hate happen’s, from people like the commenters here, nothing gets done because we care more about debating, than solving, let’s be honest its more “fun”, that’s how this whole thing happens. Might as well put in my 2 cents towards this while I’m at it. Having transgender individuals use any restroom won’t stop the violence and sickness, rape, and wrong doings, it won’t, why? because first off anyone with such intent does it anyway, goes into a restroom and causes havoc, so it really doesn’t matter. The only concern i’d have, is it allows for more opportunity for perverts to feel ok about well, being perverts, because now what happens is we begin to say our sexual and gender privacy is diminished, i mean, ya there is that. Where i don’t think it’s right for any gender to use any bathroom, or any gender to use any locker room, because it takes away from sexual intimacy when it’s out in the public, like porn weakens the mind toward sexual appetite. But if someone legitimately identifies with a different sex, then ya, i guess its fine, because that’s not the problem, that’s harmless, maybe from a Christian outlook not right, but if they genuinely and honestly are transgender and mean well, then of course welcome them into any restroom. Jesus didn’t make separate places for the sinners and the righteous. We shouldn’t either. People do need to be prepared to understand it will confuse the hell out of our youth, as kids we identify with a sex, it could cause confusion at a young age, who knows. Now, also, I’m a Christian, and from that perspective, someone who struggles or feels to be a different sex, shouldn’t be hated or hurt for that, if they feel its wrong thats between them and God and IF they truly seek and know God, their choice and truth will be found, whatever they find. So its really not up to man to call out someone like many do here, and oh ok those blasting Christians, well, we’re human too, which is why we need God, which is why we are Christians, so really what we can’t be wrong?, or human? or have opinions?, i just see a lot of hate towards Christians, but where in the hell has Christianity, keep in mind again not people, i mean true God’s word following people, in todays culture caused more death and evil and sickness and stuff, i think we should be more worried about sick people not religion or faith. I’m done ranting, its pointless any who
Actually the issue is that these topics are debated at all. End of story.
I was with you…. until you brought religion into the mix. See I’m a gay male. Once upon a time I attended church every Sunday and prayer group and… you get the point. See this isn’t about religion, not one single bit. It isn’t about sexual privacy either. It’s about identifying with an icon on a sign posted on a door when it comes time to relieve ones self.
What many fail to realize is that bathrooms are not designed by corporations. Sure, companies pick tile and laminates and plumbing fixtures but the reality is there are several sections of the International Building Code that specifically determine the number of stalls, sinks, and, and even when a facility is required to provide separate facilities for males and females. Those codes I might add rarely change. In fact, the majority of that section was written in the 90’s as part of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Anyway, my point is here that we need to stop thinking about this situation as a pervert haven, a sexual revolution, and a reason to rant about the. It is simply and at its most basic about giving human beings a place in which they feel comfortable in taking care of the human body’s most basic of functions. Let’s stop making this more than it really is.
Aside from that and on a different note directed to the author of the open letter: I understand the predisposition to focusing attentions on women or women. And children whom are the victims.of rape but let’s not forget that the, especially transgender and lgbt men, are also the victims of rape; this is not an issue limited to a single gender – and that has me outraged,
My apologies for the typographical errors in my response. A tiny phone keyboard, big thumbs, and no way of editing after the fact make for some.fun moments.
I hear you, B. Smith. And yes, the whole reason for the Pro-Transgender bathroom laws is to protect LGBT from assault that they are in danger of. They are in far more danger than any woman or child in a public restroom. My post was simply addressing the argument that I have been hearing, that “the women and children are in danger because of the Target policy.” I wanted to poke holes in the fear that is running rampant and show all of the things that are happening to “women and children” that they should get worked up about if “women and children” are their concern. I hope that clears up the intent of my post. I care very much about the abuse that is inflicted upon LGBT.
People bring up Christianity because it’s so often people waving metaphorical Bibles and ranting about “sinners” who get discriminatory laws passed and support them. You know, “walks like a duck” and all that.
As for confusing youth… I’m not sure why your youth — or anyone else’s — are joining strangers in bathroom stalls. Bathrooms have stalls. Locker rooms have stalls and showers have doors or curtains. Only the most body-loving and immodest (and attention-seeking) tend to walk around locker rooms without at least a towel wrapped around them. A transgender person trying to blend in probably wouldn’t be walking around completely nude unless just with friends/family who loved and supported them). Furthermore, normal people in general stay out of stranger’s stalls and showers, avert their eyes or at least refrain from staring at nude people in locker rooms (since bodies are normal things and the other people are going about the process of changing or showering not putting on a show).
Frankly, I’m a little astounded that so many people are apparently spying on other people’s genitalia through stall door cracks in some effort to make sure no “other” pulls something over on them. Here all this time, I’ve just been using the restroom, washing my hands, and leaving without caring who else is doing what else in there.
I didn’t say it was about religion, I just made my thoughts as a Christian, and again I said transgender individuals shouldn’t be singled out and hurt, so I guess I’m not sure what’s wrong here. B smith what your saying is what I’ve said too, and I’m glad you agree with some points. I didn’t say it was making perverts have easier access, your right it’s not about that, all I was saying was there are perverts and those, not true transgender people, could use it in a bad way, lastly it’s not really arguable that Jesus would not shun and separate anyone, so as a Christian I won’t either. That’s all! That’s all I’m saying, really everything I posted is very much what everyone commented, so cool beans I’m glad at least people talk about it civilized and not name calling on my reply, I respect each who replied very much 🙂
Gretchen, the is beautifully written, raw, and honest. You are 100% correct on your assessment of what gets media attention, and what doesn’t. I also find the lack of “outrage” over trans men using the men’s restroom. I believe that in itself says a lot. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions on this topic and others.
For the two years following my orthopedic surgery residency I worked in pediatric orthopedics. During my training, which included cleaning up the physical mayhem of the Vietnam War, NOTHING prepared me for the horror of the child abuse cases I had to treat. A one year old with two broken femurs, a destroyed hand of a three year old whose hand was thrust into boiling water to teach them a lesson and even worse cases I can’t politely describe, all of this perpetrated by a family member. We need a license for almost everything we do these days and if you abuse that privilege you can lose that license. Unfortunately one doesn’t need a license to become a parent so we could take it away when you abuse that right. Gretchen Kelly has eloquently described the current situation better than many realize. Thank you!
I just want to start with stating that our family has NOT boycotted OR signed a petition against Target for their new bathroom policy. We’ve actually shopped there three times since this announcement, which is the most I’ve been in Target all year..
We simply do not agree with the new policy, so we use the family restroom. There’s five of us- my wife & I, plus our three boys, aged 3, 6, & 9.
My wife and I are completely comfortable around anyone with an “alternative” lifestyle. Before the kiddos arrived, we would even hang out with our friends at the “gay” clubs. We have all the sympathy for our friend’s plight of persecution, but believe this comes down to a matter of common sense..
First off, this is not a new issue- just simply a big-box store has decided to make a stand for what its core values reflect. Was it necessary? Not really, because as everyone has pointed out, trams-persons didn’t just enter society when Target made its announcement.
The issue at hand is that another problem that has existed from the beginning of time – that men, women, and children are abused, beaten, raped, and/or killed when they are put in a vulnerable position. Does this happen all the time? No. Is it a more common occurrence than we would think? Yes.
So we’ve come to a crossroads where we are trying to protect the transgender minority, just the same as we are trying to protect the rest of our population, but in doing so, have created opportunity for others to be hurt.
Please take note that the Target policy states that people may use the restroom for the gender they IDENTIFY with. This means either men or women (or adolescents) may walk into either bathroom knowing that they can claim “identity” if questioned about being there. This opens a huge can of worms where people could be installing hidden cameras or committing other nefarious acts under the GUISE of being transgender.
Here’s my common sense solution- three bathrooms. One for people with penises, one for people with vaginas, and one single room “unisex” or “family” restroom if you are not comfortable with the restroom you belong to. Also, I mention the genitalia specifically because it shouldn’t matter if one has a “Y” chromosome or not once surgery has been performed to change one’s gender.
This is NOT hate related, I’m just trying to take into account EVERYONE involved and not have bias toward one group or another. I also believe the vast majority feels the same way and has a hard time articulating their viewpoint. Of course there is bigotry in the world, and this issue isn’t immune to it.
BTW, bigot is defined as “a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.” We have a wonderful country of so many differences amongst the population that makes us stronger than all other nations, but if you can’t be tolerant of your neighbor’s opinion, you are, by definition, being a bigot, regardless of which side of the issue you stand.
My two cents.
Timothy, I completely understand your concerns. And I appreciate how eloquently you presented them. I think there are many who have your same concerns who aren’t anti- LGBT. But… the evidence from states who’ve had the pro-Trans bathroom laws on the books for years show NO increase in bathroom assaults. The facts are that these laws have been around for years and it’s been a non-issue. This has become an issue because of N.C. (and other states) passing bills that are highly discriminatory. (and I’m convinced the N.C. law is about many other things than LGBT bathroom access. that’s just a fine distraction while they strip away other protections) This is a trumped up fear. And it’s rather suspicious to me that there are stories popping up of straight men entering women’s restrooms since this became a big story. Until this became a story in recent weeks, there were no incidences. That’s according to police departments and human rights groups in the states that had these laws. And even thought the incidences of assault and molestation in public bathrooms has always been low, I still was highly vigilant when my son would go to the men’s room alone (he’s 15 so he’s been doing that for years). What does that tell me? That this problem is far outside the public restrooms. This is a problem of society that needs to be addressed. The Target bathroom controversy is a distraction from the real problem.
I think maybe some of what you are missing is that Charlotte passed a very overreaching ordinance that was very vague. I don’t know how many have actually stopped to read it. It didn’t just cover bathrooms. It covered locker rooms and other places where people change. I can cite this if you need me too. It also required private businesses to accommodate no matter what. It listed lgbt and also gender identity and gender expression? The problem is no one can define gender expression precisely. It wasn’t voted on and had numerous critics. And while many people don’t see it as an issue, the leader of the lgbt chamber group that pushed for this change, is a convicted sexual predator. Look it up. What NC actually did was take out the state buildings and schools from the Charlotte ordinance. Private businesses can still do what they want with their bathrooms. So it really isn’t much different than it was except that Charlotte can’t mandate what happens in state buildings. I think a lot is made of this without all the facts.
I’m very familiar with the Charlotte ordinance, as that was my home town. What Charlotte was doing was basically changing nothing. Transgender people had been using the bathrooms they identify with since, well, forever. This law was aimed to protect the abuse that Trans people were dealing with when they would be “questioned” about their gender. When a Trans person is transitioning, they are under great stress to “pass” as their gender. It is a scary thing for them, especially if they worry that someone will give them grief as they try to use the public restroom. The law in Charlotte was simply giving them the protection. That’s it. The HB2 has no means of enforcing that portion of the law.
In addition, HB2 stripped cities in NC of the right to set fair wages. Stripped people of the right to sue their employers for discrimination at the state level. The law is horrendous and I have a suspicion that it is about allowing businesses to operate with no regard to employee’s rights. Gov. McCrory is a known ally to the Kock Brothers due to his ties to Duke Energy. There’s a lot more going on there than a bathroom law. And it’s all pretty awful, was done in a sneaky way before most legislators even had a chance to read the entire bill (30 minutes is all they were given before the vote.)
Also, other states have had pro-Trans bathroom laws for years. Similar to what Charlotte was trying to do. Las Vegas and Minneapolis are the two that I can remember off the top of my head. According to their police departments, there have been no increases in bathroom assaults since the laws were passed.
Minimum wage was set for the state. Sorry if you don’t agree but that is a complicated issue. The NC law backed off the protections for being fired, which by the way are covered under federal law. My aunt has been transgendered in NC for forth years. She never had an issue with the bathroom. And to your point that i would not know who is trans going into the bathroom already, then how do people know to single them out? Just curious. Again, it’s only state buildings and schools, which the city has no power over anyway. Please explain how I’m wrong on that.
Finally some has said it. This is not about religion, this is not about any of the issues that were stated in the article. This is simply about someone, anyone who can CLAIM they are a woman OR a man. This is not gender biased this is common sense. Does anyone really take a moment to realise its as simple as a child predator saying they feel like a woman and nextypu find a small child or an adult woman was assaulted or worse, killed. Now listen carefully as i say a MAN can identify as a woman. I am an adult male speaking against the thought of another male, so throw your sexism and hate comments in a different direction to all who oppose. Now lets get to the other half of this. A woman can claim to be a man, then yet another child can be victimized.
Moving to another point, what if that child was YOUR? Your sister, your mother, your wife and even your cousin? Would you still be supportive of this main article knowing a loved one of yours what hurt or killed because of this damn open door policy? A family restroom should be provided for those that have doubts about their gender in reality.
I stand for everyone in their total beliefs. I do not discriminate against and man, woman, gay, bi, trans, lesbian. I have gay friends, i have lesbian friends, bi friends.
Timothy McPhail and Douglas Miller made the strongest point yet to this article and comment thread. There are woman here attacking these men for being concerned about the well being of a WOMAN! How pathetic on your part.
So sure, by all means let these predators have yet another free roam opportunity to harm YOUR CHILDREN or YOUR WIFE. However, My fiancee stands to disagree with Targets decision. A woman with concerns about the new policy? Sounds to me like the woman posting in agreeance are losing a leg to stand on. My son and my daughter will use a bathroom at another property or if my local Target chooses to have a family restroom available, that will be used until this decision is reversed.
My children are my everything and even though the supporters of this article cant seem to see how wrong allowing this gateway for predators is then that will be your downfall.
Whether i have made my point or not. Whether you can understand me as a person with my rightful beliefs such as i understand your god given right to opinion or if you will just banter and bash me as you all have done to these two insightful men who just worry the same as i do or any of you ever will. Just realize men, women and children alike are in danger with this decision to allow such a capable gateway.
I have made my point and will no longer continue to amuse any such replies or hateful, bashful comments that you may have. I stand with my decision to understand when my wife to be is uncomfortable with Targets decision and with my ability to care for my children and protect them, END OF STORY. Will i boycott Target however? No, they have been nothing but a great company to shop for. Maybe their beliefs on the bathroom policy are misguided, i still will remain a customer as i always have been.
Again i say to Timothy and Douglas that i stand here understanding and supporting your points, well said to say the very least!
To also make this clear i was not opposing Gretchans right to speak her mind. Her article was well written and did raise many valid points. I just cannot stand and feel it is safe to allow such a possibilty of women or children being assaulted.
But it is true we all have our own beliefs and i dont see a reason why we cannot have differentopinions. Instead of attacking other people just take your belief and act on it, dont send your children to these bathrooms if your worried simple as that.
This post got out of hand. Express your opinions, dont be so disgusting towards others with your words just because their belief is different from yours.
(Not sure if my name showed on my article supporting Timothy and Douglas, but that long post was mine. I do not hide behind words, i dont post anon)
I’m stunned at how thin-skinned those of you are that actually believing people holding you accountable to your Christian beliefs being lived out and expressed consistently is “attacking” you. When did you develop such a substantial persecution complex? There are a lot of people who are angry with you, who have experienced the harm that you cause to us and to our families. Would you prefer that people just be quiet about it or do you actually want people to be honest with you about it? Or honest but in terms that don’t make you feel badly? Well how about how badly you’ve made people feel? How you’ve impacted American citizens lives who don’t believe what you believe but still (have to) live alongside you? How much longer will you demand that everyone hold back just how hurt we are by you and how angry we are at you for what you have done to the GLBTA community? To our families, our neighbors, our friends?
Have some integrity and actually listen without demanding people focus on your feelings for once.
They’ve always been like this. It’s why they’re so.quick to descriminate against and kill others. They do make up over 90% of the prison population.
Timothy, I have read way to many of these replies to Gretchen Kelly blog and while I appreciated both yours and Gretchen’s comments, I have to say, your following comment is where I draw the line…
“Here’s my common sense solution- three bathrooms. One for people with penises, one for people with vaginas, and one single room “unisex” or “family” restroom…”
Please tell me that this was just said in jest…!
I have no dog in this fight… (In full disclosure) 57yo white dude who was raised in Texas but that was a long time ago. I have some education but mostly “hard knocks”, have lived, worked, or visited 48 of the 50 states, worked internationally for many years, and backpacked Australia and NZ for 18 months in my mid twenties… Oh, and make a better income than I should…
With that out of the way; I find it difficult to understand that after such a thoughtful response to Gretchen’s blog you threw in the “His”, “Hers”, and “Other” (apologize for being crude) Do you not understand how this will effect business? Small business, restaurants, and gas stations all requiring 3 bathrooms or perhaps maybe just unisex bathrooms???
We or at least to me… seems like this country is determined to self destruct with so much hatefulness that is going on… Burger King employees demanding 15.00hr, Business with swimming pools requiring lifts (http://www.ada.gov/qa_existingpools_titleIII.htm), Social Security going broke, Highways, bridges, and dams in ill-repair. Education system broken and as well as the economy… and on and on goes the list…!
Accountability is out the door…!!! Burger King is an entry level job and geared mostly for kids but because the economy has been so bad for so long adults have taken these jobs to try and keep their family fed and a roof over their head. Adults have been throwing paper routes for years now… OK, enough as I quickly see this turning into a rant so I will end this quickly…!!!
We have so many people/groups hollering and screaming at the top of their lungs that nobody is listening anymore… Every acronym you can think of has become irrelevant due to the noise… BLM, ADA, ACLU…
In all due respect to all parties involved, the LGBT community may need to be careful about how this subject is approached… You know, when I was young, it was legal to drink and drive in Texas… Dad would always pick me up at the airport with a six pack of Coors in the front seat… Even though it was legal, I never once took a swig in front of a cop just to prove the point… He would have had every right to pull us over and hassle us to no end…
Just my 2 cents, lee
PS yes, I am against raising minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour for an entry level into the workforce and I hate tipping *Note; I am a damn good tipper but I would rather use the European mind set when it comes to this… business pay your employees and I will pay for my meal…! Why is it that sometimes I see the 25% helpful hint on a meal receipt these days??? I thought the 18% hint was insulting enough!!!
What a bunch of sanctimonious garbage. Do you honestly think anyone who takes issue with making all bathrooms co-ed must also have no problem with any of the things you mentioned? Get off your high horse.
I only have one question, ye on the judgemental soap box…Where were you?
I know where those people were. They were sitting in the sidelines saying they deserved it.
Reblogged this on At Long Last Heard and commented:
Every single person needs to read this. Please.
Very well-said. Thank you for writing this. As a survivor of a violent sexual assault, it is so unsettling how caviler people are about all of it. Is it a happy subject to talk about? Absolutely not. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t. That does not mean we NEED to. It seems that until it happens to them directly, the idea is just too much to contemplate. Anyway, thank you for such a powerful post. I posted it to my Facebook page, At Long Last Heard, and, if you don’t mind, would love to post it my blog of the same name.
Thanks for your excellent and provocative article. The comments that follow are also interesting in so many ways. Some have expressed concern that the relaxed and more open views on sex and sexuality have created this situation without acknowledging that abuse and promiscuity and the like have been happening since the dawn of time. Some people are concerned about straight men going into women’s bathroom to abuse. Are they concerned about the straight men who abuse boys? People need to learn more about sex abuse and how secrecy feeds the abuse of children. Churches have been breeding grounds for abuse in some circles. Bottom line that we need to take the fear mongering out of these discussions.
I frankly do not understand why this has become such an issue. There are far bigger issues of concern out there.
Okay, it’s time for me to rant. And nows a good time because I havn’t had enough coffee to make me a happy person yet. I have a sad but common story (think about how many times you’ve heard this same type of tale being told!) I am a girl that was tortured and abused in my childhood, not by some “transgendered freak” or gay person, but by men in my own family who were supposed to love and protect me. In my own home, the place I was supposed to feel safe. I am a girl who had children WAY too young because I knew no other way. I’m the mom who stood outside the bathroom door, taught my kids about stranger danger, questioned everyone who sat too close to my kids. I also married a man who abused my child, a man who was supposed to protect her and he did it in her home. Not one of the transgendered friends or gay men I’ve had in my life have ever harmed me or my kids, in any way. Society always has thier scapegoats. It’s all too easy to pick on and bully those that we don’t understand. Misdirected anger is a dangerous thing. All these people throwing a fit and bashing things they dont/ or care to understand is just a way to ignore the bigger issues. Take a look around your family… 1 out of every 3 girls and 1 out of every 5 boys will have been abused before they are 18. Most are by close family members. This isnt just a statistic. For a staggering number of people it’s a very painful and sad reality. And we choose to focus on a bathroom policy that seems to me to come from a made up threat. smfh!
Fortune Magazine wants to know if you support Target’s policy not to discriminate in bathrooms. Click on the poll in the survey. I clicked Yes. http://fortune.com/2016/04/28/target-transgender-bathroom-petition
Roger Wolsey, author, “Kissing Fish: christianity for people who don’t like christianity”
I posted this on Facebook a while back, as comments on other people’s (ridiculous) posts:
“I’m genuinely interested why people think it matters, in America. Men don’t talk to each other, in public toilets over here. We maintain a STRICT ‘no-peeking’ policy, too – if you catch someone looking at your dick in men’s toilet over here, you would be outraged… An ugly scene would ensue (or gay sex, if you were into that sort of thing). Women conversing with trans-women wouldn’t be able to check, anyway (they would use the private stalls); we don’t have male urinals in public lavatories here, you see… It genuinely wouldn’t matter, because we wouldn’t look.
Can you see the logic dilemma, here? Women wouldn’t know, at all. Men wouldn’t know, either. So if both sexes don’t know (and don’t WANT to know), it’s only the trans people that would be any the wiser.
And the other logic dilemma is that trans people don’t WANT to use a trans-toilet, either. There would have to be two trans toilets, too: one for male-female, and one for female-male. See? See how complex this gets, already?
I really don’t think you have thought this through, have you?
I just can’t see how you will police it, either. Are you going to have dick-patrolmen? With federal powers? “Show me your dick, or I’ll shoot!”
And what if: a post-operative trans-man (so to speak, a woman become a man) goes into a men’s toilet, and suspects there is a pre-operative trans-man hiding in there, with his dick out, and evil intent… Could he call for the dick-patrolman to arrest them, and then ask the dick-patrolman to show him all their cocks? I wouldn’t fancy having to do that, much. That would put me right off my aim, that would.
See? See the logic problems?
Women’s toilets don’t have urinals. Any trans-person using one, would have to use the private stalls (so no-one would be any the wiser).
And men shouldn’t know if they are surrounded by trans-people in public lavatories either, as long as they don’t go looking at other chap’s cocks. We take a dim view of that, in England! Men don’t talk to each other, in public toilets over here. We maintain a STRICT ‘no-peeking’ policy, too – if you catch someone looking at your dick in men’s toilet over here, you would be outraged… An ugly scene would ensue (or gay sex, if you were into that sort of thing). Women conversing with trans-women wouldn’t be able to check, anyway (they would use the private stalls); we don’t have male urinals in public lavatories here, you see… It genuinely wouldn’t matter, because we wouldn’t look.
Can you see the logic dilemma, here? Women wouldn’t know, at all. Men wouldn’t know (unless they are cock-wombles), either. So if both sexes don’t know (and don’t WANT to know), it’s only the trans-people that would be any the wiser… Maybe that’s what’s pissing people off: the fact that the trans-people know secret, special, hidden, toilet-things; things that the common man is not privvy-to, and have therefore become ethereal toilet-Druids…
And what if: a post-operative trans-man (so to speak, a woman who has become a man) goes into a men’s toilet, and suspects there is a male, pre-operative trans-man hiding in there, with his dick out, and evil intent… Could he call for the dick-patrolman to arrest them, and then ask the lovely-nice dick-patrolman to show him all their cocks, just so he could check? I wouldn’t fancy having to do that, much. That would put me right off my aim, that would.
And this whole ‘rapists in frocks’ idea, too… There’s always some sick bastard that would deliberately disguise himself as a woman to go a-raping anyway (didn’t Ted Bundy do that?) and somehow try to put the blame on transgender people … But you shouldn’t get suckered-into that argument, I think. The entire debate should be about whether trans-toilets should exist AT ALL.
The fact that trans-people already exist makes absolutely no difference to these ‘rapists in frocks’, as your tabloid press has it. Absolutely no difference AT ALL… They’re NOT the same thing. You can’t seriously believe that all transexual men are rapists, surely? Just because Ted Bundy wore a frock, as a disguise?
I just think that you should all just JUST BE NORMAL in America, and stop staring at each other’s cocks. I’m sure it can’t be good for a growing lad, to be staring at men’s cocks in toilets… He would grow-up all twisted, and wear frocks, even though he wasn’t a transsexual.”
I’m pretty sure it makes no difference whatsoever, to the majority of Target boycotters.
*STANDS UP AND APPLAUDS*!!!
Gretchen, what a well-written, well thought out letter. You have so articulately voiced what I’ve been trying to say about this issue yet could not find the right words. Thank you so much for taking the time to give voice to millions of people’s thoughts. I applaud you!
Your hysteria is showing.
Then you chose not to see the indignation. There have been many people supporting all of these causes and we rightly supported each of them. You may feel that these other causes have been tossed aside or lessened but that is not the same as what you declare in the article that we weren’t even concerned. If I chose to take a moment to reflect on one issue that does not mean that I have dropped or have dismissed all other causes. It just means I took a moment to reflect on another cause before resuming with support of victims in other causes.
Cue slow clap.
I’m a little confused. I guess I see the whole open bathroom policy a little differently. I don’t see it making things more dangerous I see it as an opportunity to keep a closer eye on our loved ones. If a mother or father now has the opportunity to escorts their opposite sex child into a public restroom instead of having to wait outside isn’t that safer? Besides if you have ever grown up in a big family you have used a unisex bathroom your whole life.
ILL JUST LEAVE THIS HERE
But aren’t you also just as bad with what your discussing, focusing on the others and judging just as they are? So what makes you any different than those you are against? Get pulled into discussions and give your opinion and see that your being pulled in just as they were.
Gretchen Kelly, Just Dropped the Mic…
And where are they now with Trump who raped a 17 year old gal and has many HR harassment cases and shares similar sentiments. Many people boycotting are Trump supporters. Sheer hypocrisy.
You people amaze me. Do you know how many years transgenders have been dressing & using the bathrooms of the gender they identify with? No you don’t. Not your wife, daughters or sisters were raped or abused, what makes you think it’s going to happen now?
Just because the media, government, cities, etc. suddenly publicize it you think it’s going to happen? Wake up! Gretchen makes a good point & I can tell you for a fact that I have been in the restroom with a male dressed as a female many times.
Grow up and start fighting the real injustices against your wives, sisters, daughters, etc.
Reblogged this on Spark! and commented:
An exceptional post on the artificiality of outrage by conservative voices against made-up “dangers”:
Target’s new policy is an open invitation for any sexual pervert to enter any restoom in their stores regardless of gender status. There is no protection against this happening. There are only about five hundred thousand or so transgenders in America.However, there are millions of perverts. It’s early in the process. Give it some reasonable time, six months or a year, and then we’ll have solid evidence of whatever consequences come from Target’s new policy.
In the meantime, Target’s stock has dropped almost 6% since the boycott began. It’s not only the anti-Christian, leftists liberals who can have an impact through boycotts.
I am struggling with your logic here. Washrooms are still equipped with stalls, correct? And seriously, MILLIONS of perverts? Really? I think your argument falls flat on the weight of its own silliness, frankly.
Oh, and by the way, there are one hell of a lot of us pro-Christian leftist liberals in the world. I suspect there are more of us than there are of you right wing pro-Christian intolerant bigots. How do I know this? Jesus was a hippy, left wing liberal too. After all, he fed people for free, let them follow him for free, and never asked anyone for anything to be part of his church.
Don’t believe me? Read the gospels. Seriously. and yes, I have been to bible college, and yes it was a good one, and it was conservative, and yes I have an advanced degree. So if you plan to attack my intelligence or my education don’t bother.
The entire market is down. Good Lord.
As another blogger commented, this is too good to add anything. I am reblogging this to: https://sparkpolitical.org/
Where was your outrage at the silent masses when our number of homeless veterans is staggering.
avg, 22 vets a day commit suicide. One just recently set himself on fire in front of a VA clinic.
Where have YOU and the American People been for the past 25 years while our military continues to fight, die and come back maimed to a defunct VA system that I knew from personal experience was defunct since the 70s.
Why is it that somewhere around >2% even serve.
Why are we still fighting a way since 1990? My Son and NOW MY GRANDSON could be fighting in the same shit hole. You fight so future generations don’t have to. WTF.
What I was doing was carrying the burden for a blind, mentally checked out america, since the 70s. when I was asked to leave a pizza joint because I was in uniform. By the way, I was returning from a Military Funeral where I’d just buried my room mate.
I believe rapist should be castrated, child molesters should be hunted down and executed in a public square. I believe the catholic church in american should be “de-listed” as a religious organizations until ALL records are turned over to the FBI and Justice department. I’d put out a warrant for the pope and if he set foot in America I’d bring him in for questioning.
SO I am asking YOU, what have you been doing? I’m not hiding behind an all inclusive term and I’m not jumping on a “current” topic so I can get a lot of atta girls.
One aww shit, wipes out a 100 at a girls
So try and follow this logic.
There are sick and dangerous people in the world. Yes? Shouldn’t be too hard of a conclusion to reach since YOU listed them.
So since PEOPLE know this, AND THEY KNOW WOMEN are targeted. They are voicing there concern by boycotting a store who further puts women in danger. YES it does, if ONE CHILD IS MOLESTED that’s one too many and it’ll be on Targets head. Just like it’s on the government and the liberals head’s who release a rapist and then they commit another rape. People who think like that make me sick, some sick bastards penis has more value that our wives and daughters. NOT IN MY WORLD.
So, from what I can tell you’re not solving the problems you outline. Level 1
You’re not even involved in the boycott, or trying to do anything about it. Level 2
You’re somewhere around Level 3, which is where liberals live (feels good, doesn’t solve anything just makes ME, the individual feel good by taking the “higher road”) WTF that means to them.
So IF you’re actually involved in solving ANY one of the problems you mention then I’ve miss read you. To me you come across like a self center, condescending brat.
Jeff: You’ve seen and experienced horrible things. But you may protest too much.
Sorry, but your ignorance is glaring. No well-informed, rational mother would prioritize men like Paul Ray “Paula” Witherspoon — twice-convicted for sexual abuse of minors and current “transwoman” — over her own children or herself, for that matter. There are thousands of registered sex offenders who are also frequent (daily) cross-dressers or self-professed or professionally-diagnosed “transwomen”. Don’t you dare post another lie about this topic until you have fully and honestly informed yourself about what you’re advocating and enabling to be unleashed on our girls.
Both my son and my daughter are trans. I can assure you that neither pose any danger to your wife, your kids, or even yourself. And if anyone, man or woman, were to speak to or attempt to assault either of them for being who they are had better have a much better right hook than I, big talker.
Question for those bible-thumpers currently spewing their ignorance all over the rest of us: Doesn’t it worry that more men of the cloth have committed molestation against children than any trans person? I’d like to hear your thoughts on that, please.
This thread of comments has now grown laughingly hysterical.
This is fantastic, except for the error in this sentence that changes entirely what I think the author means. “I’m talking to you… the people who have *no* issue with sharing a bathroom with LGBT people.” I think you’re talking to people who DO have an issue sharing the bathroom. Am I mis-reading this?
Yes, the author’s context indicates that she is addressing the less crazy folks, aka moderates (I still think that’s too generous a term, but I’m sure they think they’re moderate, as some of their best friends might be LGBT).
As a childless auntie and child care worker, I amen’d every line of this! And I’m also now following you (on your blog, not in a creepy way 😉 )
THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS!!!! Just WOW!! Sharing to FB now.
Riddle me this…… people are unfortunately like animals its part of the human condition. You have predators and prey. If a Gazelle were to remove its antlers and hooves thinking that the Cheetah would just be okay with it and not change its hunting habits what do you think would happen? Do you think that the Cheetahs would start targeting the Gazelle more instead of rabbits and other lesser creatures? If you really think that sexual predators or people that aren’t fond of shared bathrooms are going to take this as an opportunity to create problems you are under estimating the evil in human beings. My family’s right to privacy in a bathroom does not stop just because somebody is confused on if they have a penis or not. People need to understand that liberals push this stuff and its a pebble here a pebble there and soon trans people will be able to have access into women’s locker rooms in schools and so on. YOU say NO WAY but this is how it was about gays getting married and forcing us to accept this as normal and not a mental disorder. You have to understand how liberals always chip away at your liberties and constitutional rights!! The agenda is to normalize all the immoral things and say they are okay. BOYCOTT TARGET!
Why can’t you men control yourselves?! We are not feral; we have millennia behind us to have worked out our base instincts. I hate to quote Pat Benatar, but stop using sex as a weapon. Think with your brains and not your dicks.
The Charlotte law allows entrance into locker rooms and other areas now. Not just for trans, but any gender expression. I’m not even sure what gender expression is as its separate from all other classes. NC took out the state buildings and schools from the Charlotte ordinance as they have no oversight in those areas.
I seriously can’t believe what I just read. You are everything you claim to hate.
I personally can relate to A LOT of the victimization that you write about, yet I pull myself up and keep on going.
I’m a conservative woman who believes what the Bible says and lives a Christ-Centered life to the best of my flawed human way.
I believe in the family. I believe in the right to own a gun. I believe in less government and the generosity of people who would have more of the government would take less from us.
I’m a single mom of six and yet NOT on any type of welfare and living debt free on a BUDGET.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. At. All. I won’t be voting for Trump either because he doesn’t represent my values.
I would never vote for anyone who thinks killing the preborn is acceptable.
I’m an adoptive parent who lives and breathes for my God and my family. I’m serving and giving.
I don’t say any of this to boast. I say it because I know so many people just like me who are constantly being judged by people like you who take one topic and then it into a political fanfare and relate it to one hundred different topics and accuse others of not caring about injustice.
You don’t know me and you don’t know the people you just offended. Most won’t even bother to respond because they’re busy serving and protecting the family unit.
I am boycotting Target because of their business model. I’d rather spend my money in places where I think my children are safer. If that bothers you, then I ask…who is judging who here?
I’m personally fed up with being bullied by the progressive liberal media and it’s overreaching agenda. It’s time that we conservative Christians take a stand against these malicious, accusatory, judgemental attacks by people who want blog traffic or to stir the liberal pot.
Let’s hope Mother of the Year here isn’t also Mother of the Queer, for the children’s sake.
If society keeps making mental illnesses like homosexual behavior a normality, it will, sadly, probably happen. Some kids nowadays are becoming gay because they feel it is what we are SUPPOSED to be. If everywhere you look is gay people on tv, ads, in public and whatever… You have become what you hated about us straight people. The issue is that as far as human nature and Mother Nature are concerned, homosexuality is basically just a defect in the mind that stops the natural instinct of survival and procreation. Any species that become fully homosexual will not survive to continue on generations. People always use “homosexuality has been observed in other animals” yes, I know, but that animal’s blood line ended with them because they didn’t try to make the other animals accept them or get upset when they didn’t and also didn’t attempt to change the laws of nature they all abide by.
And this vile, evil human being is exactly why all of us are so vocal against Christians, because all gay children men and women need to be protected from people like this. How terrifying to think that this person may come into contact with a gay chilld.
yeah sure… but she has a point…
nope, not a christian, sorry. but thanks for trying to judge/label me.
I don’t believe you for a second.
Gee, “darkshadow”… couldn’t quite bring yourself to add 666… or did someone beat you to it?
I’m going to go hang out in the women’s bathroom at target every Saturday…Saturday is when I identify as a woman. lets see how many complaints I get. Sunday is when I identify as a fire hydrant…going to stand in the parking lot and tell people its illegal to park near me.
Well, you’re wrong on a lot of levels. I always speak out. The only cure for a sex offender is death, so don’t say I don’t speak out against lenient sentences for sex offenders. I don’t care what gays or transgender people do, don’t care about gay marriage, kid with skittles…assuming you mean Trayvon..yeah, not a child… kid in the park. if you point a gun that looks real at a cop, you’re getting shot ( they received a call about a kid with a gun, pointing it at people) the kid walked toward a speeding cop car and pulled the gun out and pointed it at them but on to my main point ….I don’t want a stranger with male genitals in the bathroom with my daughter…I suppose I could always go with her and pretend I am her mother….and no, sorry to pop your liberal bubble about my beliefs. I vote republican because the left is MORE insane than the right, but I am an atheist. not everyone who disagrees with you is a Christian.
I am a Baptist and a psychologist. Homosexuality is not a mental illness. I am so sad that this woman uses her faith to both spew misinformation about gay people “mental illness” indeed! – and to smash the faith of others with her concrete interpretation of one of the world’s major religions. It drives me, as a follower of the teachings of Christ – FUCKING NUTS. I’m with you. I’m worried to pieces if this person comes into contact with a gay person, especially a child. I’ve called her a woman but who knows what gender “she” is. But here’s the thing. These nutty fundamentalists have hijacked religion just like the tea party has hijacked the Republican party (not that I was ever a fan of that party). Faith, or the study of any of the religions of the world, doesn’t have to be THAT kind of faith – but people like that send the rest of us fleeing from organized religion in droves, into the “um, I’m spiritual but not religious” category. I decided to take back my faith community by force from these wackos. There are liberal, progressive places to commune with others on a faith journey. Even Baptists – yes, American Baptist Churches are as liberal as they come. Mine marches at the head of our Gay Pride Parade every year. (The Episcopals try to beat us, but we get up early). Please consider that Jesus – whether he was “divine” or just a wise teacher, got himself killed just like all wise teachers (MLK, for example) by speaking truth to power. He was for the marginalized and disenfranchised. As we all should be. Not like those hateful hateful people who are posting here. Thanks for letting me vent.
So you don’t believe Jesus was the son of God? You believe he was a good teacher. If you really are a Christian then you would believe that also. Jesus died for me, he died for you, he died for everyone. But not everyone will accept him. Jesus is a friend of sinners (gay, straight, immoral, murderers, tax collectors, presidents, garden workers), and everyone are sinners. But he is NOT friends with unrepentant sinners. If you believe Jesus was a good teacher I am afraid you miss the mark of the gospel. I am praying the Lord softens your heart and changes you. God bless you.
Your definition of what it takes to be a believer is not the only one out there. Your definition of sin is not the only one. Jesus had FAR more problems with divorce then he ever mentioned with homosexuality. The bible condemns left handedness as a sin also. Oh and the list of foods you Probably eat… sharing a table with a woman on her period… all that stuff that you likely ignore that the bible calls sins.
THAT is what you took away from what they said? You clearly aren’t reading the entire post.
If homosexuality is a mental illness then so is heterosexuality. People don’t choose to be gay; they’re born that way. You are the problem.
Bad news for you, gay people actually support a larger framework for the survival of the human species. Gay people are meant to help raise the children that already exist, as humans often did not (and do not) have enough resources to raise the number of children we create, as human babies/children require more work to raise throughout our maturation than the babies of pretty much any other species. So in tribes, gay men who did not compete for mates and felt more incentive to help raise children were an invaluable resource to a tribe.
Fast forward to modern day, we already are on the brink of a population crisis. With automation growing so rapidly we are running out of jobs to support our quickly expanding population. We are also running out of sustainable resources. Humans need to stop. We haven’t yet reached an equilibrium where the older population can be supported by a dwindling younger population and enough jobs are automated to maintain our current cities with a declining number of people, but we’re getting there pretty fast.
Point is, we don’t need more breeders. We have MORE than enough breeders. Creating gay children is also ingrained into us. It often appears to result from a hormonal fluctuation in the womb and is the fault of the mother, not a mutation in the child. Fun fact, it generally occurs after the mother has already had multiple babies (I wonder why?!?!) Point is, as long as the mother who made the gay child has created older, straight siblings, then they will also create more gay children.
For someone who claims to not be religious, you sure to share religious people’s short sighted mentalities and lack of cognitive adaptability.
I mean to be pointing at Anon#1s post..
As a proud GAY MARRIED MAN tax paying I MIGHT ADD you sir are an ignorant bigoted moron ! You are BORN GAY just as you are blond haired or blue eyed ! NO ONE would CHOOSE to be treated like a second class citizen , teased and beaten as a child , called names and threatened as an adult ! I pray one of your children and or grandchildren are born GAY so you can EAT YOUR WORDS or lose your loved one forever because of your ignorance ! I am a tax paying AMERICAN and demand the EXACT SAME RIGHTS AND PROTECTIONS AS EVERYOTHER AMERICAN !!!
darkshadow kids are gay because they think it’s what they’re supposed to be? that’s a pretty weird idea. it seems like you’re bending over backwards to try and excuse bigotry
homosexuality is not a mental illness. it’s one normal variation on the basic human experience, and, while it’s not as difficult to be gay today as it has been at other times and in other places (when you could be killed for who you loved) it’s certainly not something a person choses because of the media. Being gay is hard and stressful, amongst other things because of folks like you, and many gay folks commit suicide because being targeted by people’s hate is more than they can handle forever
no one would chose to be hated by people who don’t even know them because the tv told them to do so
The Bible says to love your neighbor as yourself. Not your straight neighbor. Your neighbor. Period. God loves all of His children and that includes the gay ones who are perfect as He made them
My mistake. I meant that for the person who youbwere replying to. Your response was very well said. I’m sorry.
You’re an Idiot. Period.
Dear Darkshadow667……Just one fact, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed homosexuality from it’s official Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in 1973. Homosexuality is not an illness. It’s nothing something you choose, you are born with it. Why would someone choose to be ridiculed or disowned by their families? They don’t choose, they are born that way.
Since when did being homosexual become a mental illness?
Please name these extinct homosexual species.
Rebecca, you sound like a person anyone would be grateful not to know.
I hope all of your children can stay brave, strong and safe until they are old enough to flee the damaging influence of your persecution complex.
So you automatically think her children will be like you? Not everyone hates their life and family.
Rebecca, I’m confused as to what any of your diatribe has to do with my article. And as for being bullied? You may want to check out the actual real definition of bullying. Articles that don’t agree with your viewpoint are not bullying. Saying that these things are bullying is really cruel to the people who are truly bullied. People who are beaten, tormented online, even killed. Actually, you know who is often bullied at higher rates than any other population? The LGBT population.
White male outrage and misguided fear.
So you really think that black people are picked on by cops your comments are a bunch of crap.
As far as the whole lgbt crap no they shouldn’t have any rights its wrong and the morals of a Christian founded country like America shouldn’t be abandoning the very things it was founded on to appease the few.
These sick and demented ppl being the lgbt community are the few and their cries shouldn’t even be heard they are the few their devil worshipping lifestyles shouldn’t control the majority period.
You need to be educated and kept away from children. Your ignorance knows no bounds. The demented people are Christians like you who demonize natural sexuality and cover for your oppressed rapist priests.
Really loudspeakerandlemonjuice. You have know idea what your talking about. Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah where God destroyed the city with brimstone and fire?
Gay kids are the #1 group of kids who commit suicide because of people like you. They’re blood is on your hands and it terrifies me to think people like you come into contact with them. I hope you never parent a gay child, volunteer and come across a gay child or have anyone in your family who is gay because you’re going to hurt them.
I have, and it was about gang rape. Not two men or two women falling in love. At one point in the Bible they called it “Inhospitality”. Basically if you were from out of town and you came there you got greeted with gang rape. Men on men, men on women, men on children. Soddom and Gommorah has nothing to do with homosexuality but I love how people that don’t even read the Bible try to quote it. Go back and read again. That’s a common misrepresentation but it is a lie.
Yeah, about that “read the bible” thing. I wouldn’t use the word “read” so much. More like had the bible interpreted.
Alas, I love the Bible and will let it answer your question. Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.”
The bible is fiction
Yeah I have and that was for premarital sex, not homosexuality, nor the existence of trans sexual people. You’d be going to hell for that, dumbass. As an atheist, I know more about the Bible than you. Here’s a study: http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey-who-knows-what-about-religion/
It’s supported by right wing Christian sites.
Except, Sodom was destroyed because she had an abundance of wealth, and refused to use it to help the poor and the needy.
Didn’t have anything to do with sexuality of any kind.
The sins of Sodom and Gommorah had nothing to do with being homosexual- They had turned their face from God and become selfish and inhospitible(like many people in the US today) Rather than treat visitors well, they attempted to assault them, violating common courtesy and decency.
You really don’t have a clue do you being gay or transgender is not natural it’s totally against God’s word and everything natural.
The Bible condones rape, incest, slavery, wife beating, and infanticide. Only a piece of shit degenerate would use that as a guidebook in their life.
Can you give me verses that condone rape, incest, infanticide or anything else you put up here? I challenge you to actually study the Bible and not cherry pick what you want out of it.
Sure. Since you clearly know nothing about your own holy book…
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.” (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
“So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives.” (Judges 21:10-24)
“They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men … Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded … Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.” (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
“Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Slaves, be obedient to your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. (Ephesians 6:5-8)
Let as many slaves as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. (1 Timothy 6:1)
Exhort slaves to be obedient to their masters, and to please them well in all things; not talking back; not purloining, but being obedient; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. (Titus 2:9-10)
As for infanticide: Matthew 2:16-18, Isaiah 13:8, Exodus 1:15, Psalm 137:9, 2 Chronicles 28:3 and Ezekiel 20:31. To note just a few. The Noah story is pro-murder, pro-abortion, pro-incest, and pro-infanticide. The story of Lot is pro-incest.
There are many stories where your shit God tells people to murder their own children as a way to prove their allegiance to him.
Wife beating: There is a clear contradiction in this, as with almost everything in the Bible. God says this:
Hosea 3:1 The Lord said to me, “Go, show love to your wife again, even though she loves another man and continually commits adultery. Likewise, the Lord loves the Israelites although they turn to other gods and love to offer raisin cakes to idols.” 2 So I paid fifteen shekels of silver and about seven bushels of barley to purchase her. 3 Then I told her, “You must live with me many days; you must not commit adultery or have sexual intercourse with another man, and I also will wait for you.” 4 For the Israelites must live many days without a king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred fertility pillar, without ephod or idols. 5 Afterward, the Israelites will turn and seek the Lord their God and their Davidic king. Then they will submit to the Lord in fear and receive his blessings in the future.
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Ephesians 5:25-30 (NIV)25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.
I Peter 3:7 (NIV)7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
8 Finally, all of you [husbands and wives /brothers and sisters ], be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.
Colossians 3:19 (NIV)19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
In case just talking about Lot and Noah weren’t enough.
Genesis 19:30-36 (Lot had sex and children with all three of his daughters)
Genesis 6:6-8, 7:1, 20-23, 9:1, 18-19 (Noah’s family and the incest that supposedly restarted the world for a third time).
Genesis 20:12 – And yet indeed [she is] my sister; she [is] the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. – Where Abraham married his sister, which is incest.
1 Corinthians 5:1 – It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
Reading is fundamental, bitch.
Show me the passage where your murderous God said trans people and homosexuals were evil or mistakes..
“a Christian founded country like America”
And there you lost any hope of actually being taken seriously. Sorry, you don’t get to rewrite history, regardless of how many time right wing politicians keep trying to.
Allow me to quote actual evidence:
“The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine.”
– Article XI, Treaty of Tripoli, Congress 1797
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion [including Christianity]”
– 1st Amendment, U.S. Constitution, adopted 1789, brackets mine
Knowing a bit of history helps here. See, back in 1789, the Framers of the Constitution were people who had lived as part of British society. At the time, the British head of state (the King) was also the head of the Church of England (Anglicans/Episcopalians) and had been for over 200 years (in fact, the Queen is still the head of the C. of E.). Moreover, bishops and archbishops in the C. of E. were often appointed to political office, including the Exchequer (that’s the guy who literally controls the purse strings, e.g. the treasury).
The Framers sought to avoid the same situation in the newly founded country.
The majority of the founding fathers were Godly men
Just because you want to deny it doesn’t make it true.
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson
Samuel Adams, First Chief Justice John Jay
Names synonymous with the spirit of our country
Founding fathers of the U.S.A.
Over 200 years ago they shook off the chains
Of tyranny from Great Britain, by divine call
Citing 27 biblical violations, they wrote the declaration
Of Independence with liberty and justice for all
But something happened
Since Jefferson called the Bible the cornerstone
For American liberty then put it in our schools as a light
Or since “Give me liberty or give me death”, Patrick Henry said
Our country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ
We eliminated God from the equation of American life
Thus eliminating the reason this nation first began
From beyond the grave I hear the voices of our founding
Fathers plead “You need God in America again”
Of the 55 men who formed the constitution
52 were active members of their church
Founding fathers like Noah Webster who wrote the first dictionary
Could literally quote the Bible chapter and verse
James Madison said, “We’ve staked our future on our ability
To follow the ten commandments with all our heart”
These men believed you couldn’t even call yourself an American
If you subvert the word of God
In his farewell address, Washington said, “You can’t have
National morality apart from religious principle,” and it’s true
‘Cause right now we have nearly a 150,000 kids carrying guns
To these war zones we call public schools
In the 40’s and 50’s student problems were chewing gum and talking
In the 90’s, rape and murder were the trend
The only way this nation can even hope to last this decade
Is to put God in America again
Abe Lincoln said â€½The philosophy of the schoolroom
In one generation, will be the philosophy of government in the nextâ€
So when you eliminate the word of God from the classroom and politics
You eliminate the nation that word protects
America is now number one in teen pregnancy and violent crime
Number one in illiteracy, drug use and divorce
Everyday a new holocaust of 5,000 unborn die
While pornography floods our streets like open sewers
Well then clean up the mess in your own churches. Christians get divorced 54% of the time and freely commit adultery via remarriage, something the Bible clearly prohibits. Churches are rampant with sexual dysfunctions and porn support groups and every single day, another conservative pastor or preacher is in the news for sexually abusing children, having affairs or something else grotesque. And yet you point the finger at “America”? Guess what, you are America! The filth is in your four walls.
The sad but true fact of the matter is that you can’t put your trust in people. People are fallen people will fail and do wrong. The numbers on divorce and all are horrifying coming from church people. The only thing that iI can say is that there are people that claim to be Christians and then there are the ones that really do practice what they preach also. Ultimately in a fallen world imperfect humans will fail that’s why when have to trust God fully because He can never fail.
Right, we’ve all heard it before, you’re not perfect just forgiven. Except you come onto a forum where this wonderful woman is holding you accountable for your actions against a vulnerable portion of our society who represents no documented harm to you , the opposition against her is hostile and degrading as Christians like yourselves talk about the problems “America” has as you distance yourselves from responsibility for them. How about this? Instead of reminding all of us of your excuse for your fallen nature, how about you demonstrate the integrity and humility that Christians are supposed to have in greater measure than anyone else (according to your beliefs) and actually showcase both in the conversation here? Or you can just continue to rail on her for being brave enough to bring up some important points while at the same time, giving yourself an excuse as to why you and your fellow Christians *are* a huge source, proponent and participant of every hurtful thing you just rattled off. Thank you.
Your reply is a 20 year old Carman song? Really?!?
Nice try, Chris.
However, your evidence is tenuous at best. I’ve read and taught the Declaration of Independence many times over the last 12+ years and have yet to find it citing Scripture (actually the document cites no sources). Second, Jefferson wrote the Treaty of Tripoli cited above. Third, Patrick Henry serves no purpose jn your statement. Fourth, sure Webster probably could quote chaptr & verse . . . so could I once upon a time (and I’m an atheist).
The reality is, from both government documents and the letters of the Framers, the country was not founded in Christian doctrine.
Two other points:
1) I’m glad you look at the 40s & 50s through your rose tinted glasses. They were a great era . . . for white male Protestants. For Jews, women, non-whites . . . well, they kinda sucked, what with all the lynchings, segregation, etc.
2) If your God can be prevented from existing in a school, then he’s a pretty pathetic deity. However, for the record, no one has removed your deity from schools, we’ve just said you can’t force others to worship your deity in public (state) schools because doing so violates the U.S. Constitution.
“In the 90’s, rape and murder were the trend”
Rape and murder always existed. 1) You’ve clearly forgotten the 1920s and 30s. 2) Rape is a subject that has only recently been discussed openly, however it has been going on throughout history, in fact one could argue that the U.S. was founded on rape (of indigenous peoples and slaves . . . like Jefferson’s slave, who bore him many children through rape, all of whom he owned as property and never acknowledged).
“America is now number one in teen pregnancy and violent crime”
First point: we’re also at the bottom of the heap in solid, fact based sex education. Second point: we’re also number one in poverty amongst industrialized nations (due in large part to conservative economic theories).
“drug use and divorce”
Drug use has always been present, to large degrees. The difference is that in the 1960s most drugs were made illegal for political reasons. Regarding divorce, hey, women can leave their abusive spouses, excellent.
“Everyday a new holocaust of 5,000 unborn die”
Nope. Something that’s not (biologically speaking) alive can’t die.
“While pornography floods our streets like open sewers”
Ah, so your issue with the OP is not LGBT, but rather sexuality and the body in general. Got it.
“Abe Lincoln said â€½The philosophy of the schoolroom
In one generation, will be the philosophy of government in the next”
Very true, but it doesn’t help your point. Rather, it does explain in part why we’re moving forward as a nation and society into the modern world and looking toward the future. My hope is that we’ll make our way out of the 19th century and into the 21st century before I die.
Also, for what it’s worth, Playboy was founded in 1953 and took off kn popularity to become a multimedia empire. So much for those lily white 1950s, huh?
Further, the first thing the Victorians (late-1800s) did when the camera was invented was . . . create pornography with it (though they did not invent pornography, that pre-dates Christianity, arguably it pre-dates Judaism).
They weren’t but they also wrote against religion and politics mixing. You need to go back to third grade.
I love it when some newly-minted college grad (assuming they did) attempts to regurgitate the spun teachings of their Mephisto shoe-wearing bearded professors. Let’s agree to the idea that this nation isn’t technically founded in Christianity. In so doing, tell me what precisely all the references to “God,” “our Creator” etc mean? The real history is that the ONLY reason Christianity isn’t the national religion is because of negotiation with the colonies to unite to get documents signed off on. Period. The backlash of attempting to do that on the heels of escaping a forced “religion” in the Church of England would have been a non-starter. But if you really believe the vast majority of the Founders weren’t fervent believers you really should read more.
Because they were theists which is taught in every American history class, dear.
Thank you Joe at least someone else sees the truth also.
Sorry, Joe, try again.
B.A. in English & History (2000)
– almost minored in Religious Studies
I’m willing to bet my background in history (and theology, really) is rather stronger than yours.
Oh, and that B.A. . . . it came from a Presbyterian college.
Devil worshipping, lol….you sir are a moron . BTW our country was not founded on Christian beliefs, it was founded on separation of church and state. No one cares if you practice your religion, by all means please do but don’t use your religious beliefs to justify your hate. I sure remember you same Christians using this same argument to justify slavery, or to hold women from gaining any kind of equal rights in our country. I grew up in the church, I have read the Bible and now come to the conclusion that some things in it are just common morality ways to live your life but many things have outlived there usefulness. …
Typical liberal or democrat reply in an argument to start calling names and bullying when you know what you are saying is ridiculous. If you grew up in chruch like you say you should know better than that. If that’s true you were taught right and wrong and somewhere deep down inside you know that this whole gay and transgender crap is exactly that it’s not natural or right period. You can’t call yourself something you’re not this whole giving into what people feel at the moment crap is really getting us to bad places. By tha way the majority of the founding fathers were Godly Christian men. America was founded on the Principles of God and the Bible.
I am a direct descendant of John Adams, an actual founding father and our 2nd President. He was a Congregationalist, as am I. The first church built on this continent was a Congregational Church. It was the first church to come out against slavery. The first to ordain a woman. And the first to openly marry LGBTs. Christianity does NOT have to mean close-minded idiot, though many adherents are. This country was founded on the separation of church and state regardless of how the individual framers identified. It was of utmost importance that religion did not get codified into the Constitution. It doesn’t matter how many times you pretend what that document says versus what it actually says: it will NEVER say that this nation is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, Druid, Wiccan, Rastafarian, Fundamentalist, Voodoo, Spaghetti Monster or anything else. You fundies should be grateful because our nation would never choose your version of “Christianity” (false and twisted version that does not resemble the teachings of Christ as it is apparently based on hate). But our nation allows you to exist and worship anyway. It also allows you to pee in bathrooms across this great nation right next transgendered people because THEY HAVE BEEN THERE ALL THIS TIME. Did you think they just started to exist? Where on earth did you think they’ve been peeing all this time? How many times have they attacked you in the bathroom? Never? Imagine that.
Congrats on being rrelated to a racist murderer who wore wigs, heels, and makeup.
Wow! Just Wow! Wigs yes… as most men did of his age at that time. But “racist murderer”? Adams? The man who kept a lid on the “quasi-war” against France? Are we talking about the same universe? The man who wrote these words in 1819?
“Every measure of prudence, therefore, ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of slavery from the United States.
“I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in such abhorrence, that I have never owned a negro or any other slave; though I have lived for many years in times when the practice was not disgraceful; when the best men in my vicinity thought it not inconsistent with their character; and when it has cost me thousands of dollars of the labor and subsistence of free men, which I might have saved by the purchase of negroes at times when they were very cheap.”–Works of John Adams, vol., p. 380.
Like many of the presidents, John thought slavery was not right, but still had slaves, and was a racist. He had a slave named “Surry” in 1765. A gift from his cousin Samuel. You need to look a little further and not take their words at face value.
Confusing the facts… and the cousins… It was Samuel that recieved the slave…. who he promptly freed but took in as a de facto member of his extented family ( a common practice, as freed women would like starve on their own in racist America).
I stand corrected then. We were taught that Sam.git the slave as a gift and then gifted her to John in his will.
Wait a minute, in a comment below you just thanked someone for “pointing out the truth” for speculating that a commenter was a “newly-minted college grad (assuming they did) attempts to regurgitate the spun teachings of their Mephisto shoe-wearing bearded professors” and you’re now actually claiming you’re being “bullied”? As you just cheer someone who attacked the education of someone else’s without even knowing it? Wow, the cognitive dissonance of Christians is stunning, you are gross.
Yes, the church that steals money, rapes children, and teaches that it’s acceptable to beat your wives if they speak out of turn. What a fantastic place.
That’s not the church I belong to. I belong to the church that teaches morals, serving, sacrifice, giving, and we as the body of Christ are making a positive impact as best we can in a fallen world.
Every church is the same. They were created to funnel money from illiterate fools (look it up. The point of church was to pay a fine and then sit while some old man read you his interpretation of the Bible).
Do you do background checks on all of your church employees?
There is no fallen world, and churches aren’t really impactful in assisting any community. There are facts supporting this statement.
Oh just stop it. I’m a Baptist. You are hateful as they come. Jesus would be ashamed. He was for the disenfranchised, the downtrodden and the hated. Man.
Was this directed at me? Jesus commanded us to care for the orphans and the widows….they are downtrodden. How many people here are doing that?
A Christian Founded country? PLEASE do some research.
Washington, Adams, Jefferson. Ben Franklin. NOT CHRISTIANS. the US Was Not Founded on any religion.
That very concept is what America wascreated to not be. You will not find God, Jesus or Christianity in ANY part of the Constitution. Freedom of Religion. Separation of Church and State. Those ARE found there and were what was a big part of founding this country.
So you and all of your righteous bigoted born again ignorant cronies need to understand that, first and foremost.
See that’s the thing. America was founded on religious FREEDOM. Not christianity alone….
Are you any better for judging people that protest without insulting other people’s beliefs? You can’t dictate what someone feels lead to protest and expect them to be more passionate about another situation that has similar roots, or their wrong for voicing an opinion about this one. It’s really easy to criticize as way to silence voice. We can all be extremely dramatic and use whatever we can grasp to back our beliefs. That goes for both side of the debate. If you are trying to make one feel so bad about their stance that you silence their voice then to me that is a form of bullying. We all know there a different degrees of bullying. No one is comparing, or saying it’s even close to the bullying that happens to ppl that are transgender. However, it can still be considered a form. Allow all ppl to express them self without telling them what they should be more concerned with as opposed to them making their on decisions.
I sincerely pray to God that you will never have gay children. That is a terrifying thought, your victimization is duly noted and the extremes that you go to in order to redefine “bullying” because you are getting called out here and held accountable is sickening. It’s like Christians have become the most thin-skinned, self-absorbed narcissistic people on the planet.
If any of my children are gay, I will love them just the same. Just like I love my special needs children that the liberals say should have been aborted. Just like I love my child conceived in rape that the progressives say doesn’t have a right to life. I would love a gay child just as much as I love my children who aren’t the same race as me.
Why is it that if a Christian comes forth with an opinion, we are viciously attacked, called names, deemed intolerant, ignorant, and bigoted.
I have seen transgender people in the women’s room. I’m against a policy that will give men liberal access the women’s facilities.
Any article that is the opposite side of way you posted is always viewed as such. So why is it hard to accept that others feel different? It seems that As long as we are pro LGBTFDQ then our views and opinions are valid.
Gretchen, you know which group of women suffers the most domestic abuse? The ones in same-sex relationships, at the hands of other women.
Oh I’d love to see some data on that Joe. Put it up for all of us to read!
Yeah, that is NOT true at all. I used to work at the shelter for battered women and our training involved a whole lot of stats, and no, most crime against women, ALL crime against women, is from men they are involved with. Period. The number 1 day to beat your wife is superbowl Sunday. Just some facts.
You dumbass homophobe.
It’s succinct and appropriate. 😆 Why would anyone in their right mind extend niceties to bigots? Think. 😉
“Stirring the liberal pot.” If I had a dollar every time somebody said something like this, I’d be rich. People like Ms. Rebecca fling the word “liberal” out like it’s an insult. Frankly, I bear it like a badge of honour, mostly because I’m not like her. It’s funny, I never say crap like “stirring the conservative pot” whenever somebody says something I disagree with. *sigh* On a brighter note, very well written piece, Gretchen.
Rebecca, I could not have said it any better than you just did. As I was reading her blog, I could see right through the author , The author brought up children being killed by cops and saying it was all the cops fault. The author is part of a bigger problem than any bathroom issue.
If you are a Christian woman than act accordingly…Jesus and God are love….God creating everyone equally…Gay, Straight, Black, White Green and Purple so stop your bull saying your a good Christian….you judge and condemn and that is not being a good Christian.
Mmm, careful. Judging and condemning are not the same as disagreeing and calling out lies for what they are. I get you think saying those things might make some Christians shrink back, but not those that know truth doesn’t revolve around one’s choice of words.
There you go….assuming I don’t love people who are different from me.
I’m amazed at how the liberals come out attacking even though I didn’t say one mean thing in my original post. This is ALL about furthering an agenda.
Rebecca, How does owning a gun relate in any way to being a Christian. Can’t find in the Bible where Jesus says “shoot to kill”. Conservatives who try to find a correlation between believing in Christ’s message and thinking it’s ok to kill anyone, has missed the message, but only completely. Gretchen’s message was one that absolutely everyone should read. Her facts are right. If only people would stop believing one stop media networks like Fox and MSNBC or CNN. EVERY ONE of them has an agenda and that is to keep you watching and believing what they say, even if it means only presenting partial facts. And, Cathy is right, you act as if being liberal is a bad thing, because that’s what you’ve been told. Liberals created this country. Liberals left a country where they were being oppressed and now Conservatives are trying to oppress the rest of us. THANK YOU Gretchen for the well written and timely article.
God clearly gave us the right to protect ourselves. We are not allowed to kill others for our selfish intent.
But by your logic, you should be perfectly willing for a bad guy to come over to your house with a gun and shoot you and your loved ones and you just have to except it.
And by your logic God would pat you on the back for being a good christian and not shooting back to protect yourself or your loved ones.
I think we both know who isn’t getting it.
“And by your logic God would pat you on the back for being a good christian and not shooting back to protect yourself or your loved ones.”
That’s not Anonymous’s logic . . . that’s the Bible. Literally. Check out the Garden of Gethsemane in the Gospels, e.g. where a disciple stabbed a Roman soldier to death and was reprimanded by Christ, who healed the soldier. One of many passages of the New Testament that condemn violence.
But, don’t take my word for it, go look yourself, after all I’m merely a non-believer who has actually read the darn book.
Sorry, but the disciple you are talking about is Peter. He didn’t stab a Roman soldier to death. He cut off the ear of the high priest’s servant. You are correct that Jesus did reprimand him for it and healed the person. The reason behind it? it wasn’t about not defending anyone. Jesus was sent to die for the sins of the world.
Not according to the Bible sitting on my bookcase, that I looked at not too long ago. But, I suppose that’s the problem you have when you base your argument on a text that’s been translated so many times as to render its accuracy useless.
Side note, as I said, one of *many* examples.
Looks like you better re-read it.
Been there, done that. Many times. And there’s nothing in the New Testament to support the original comment.
Joe, I don’t see the relationship of this discussion to the original issue (the original article about transgender and bathrooms and these moronic laws), and I’m not going to get into discussion about the Bible, the Torah, the Koran etc. simply because it is irrelevant. From all the research I have done on religious texts, I have to agree with Brent. The text was translated so many times from so many sources that it leaves a huge room for interpretation. Personally I participated in a Bible studies in a Christian group were the leader of the group, after reading a particular passage would tell us how we supposed to feel about it! A source this person was concerned it was no interpretation, he was right and everyone else was wrong or needed to study more. As you can see this example shows that we cannot translate English into English, but some of us claim that they know exactly what it says in the Bible when it was translated, correct me if I am wrong, from Hebrew!
As for the issue at hand: the idiots in their bathroom laws, I’d like to offer a different solution (I would like to claim it as my own but I can’t, I read this in one of the other posts on the subject) let’s close all the bathrooms, not only at the major retail facilities or gas stations or ballparks airports airplanes…… Let’s all urinate and defecate in public so there would be no possible way of mistaking whether you are a man or woman this would most certainly eliminate the problem and the bulk of discussions. Because the only other alternative is to hire someone to check and make sure that you are using “correct” bathroom by checking your genitals on the way in.
* as far as
I’m with you. The essence of turn the other cheek if you ask me. I love how everyone’s all quoting scripture in service of their own polarized mean ol agenda. Bless you honey. xo
I realize that this is a complete tangent from the article, but Josh please give me the scriptures that you are using to base your belief that God clearly gives us the right to defend ourselves. We are supposed to model ourselves after Christ. Did he ever physically defend himself? When he was in the garden and the soldiers came to arrest him, Peter tries to defend him Jesus stops him. When Jesus is dying on the cross, he says forgive them for they know not what they do. Only one of his disciples died a natural death. The rest were killed in various ways. There isn’t any mention of them defending themselves. If someone kills me, I will get to spend the rest of my existence hanging out with God. If I kill them, I may have sentenced them to hell. I actually am not against people owning guns and I was married to a cop for a long time. I’m only posting this because I don’t believe your comments are Biblically based.
Reading through the New Testament, I haven’t found anything so far. Christ didn’t, but He was meant to die for our sins. Peter didn’t, Paul didn’t, not a single Christian (as far as I remember) in the New Testament defended themselves against physical abuse and beatings up to death.
Th e Bible does say that we are supposed to take care of our families and if we don’t then we are worse than the unbeliever. I think that that verse is meant for us to be taking care of our families in any way that we need to whether it be providing food…emotional stability…protectiin against people that want to harm them. I don’t think that God would want us to stand by and let our families be hurt our killed because we don’t want to us the necessary force to stop the threat
Sorry, but the early church, starting with the apostles didn’t believe that. Even Jesus rebuked Peter in the garden for cutting off the ear of a soldier. Granted “he was standing in the way of Jesus fulfilling his destiny” but he wasn’t really, if we are being honest. Christ was setting a nonviolent example.
During the 2nd and 3rd century persecutions, there are no examples I found during my research of the church ever fighting back. They clearly did not believe that it was the right thing to do. And yes, that includes fighting to protect their families.
Seriously, we either believe in heaven or we don’t. The early church did. So they believed a better place awaited them. This whole notion of fighting “to defend the family” is a very modern one, and a distinctly American one as well.
Of course, the pro gun, pro ‘Merica folks will attack this. But without scripture, and likely with ad hominem arguments.
Draw your own conclusions.
Wait i thought one of the commandments was to NOT kill! … #6 to be exact.
The Bible also commands fathers to sacrifice their sons, and stone disrespectful children to death. Strange way to care for your family.
Just think those who target lets in the women bathroom that you are all outraged about, are the same ones in the bathroom with your little boys at other places.
Rebecca, haven’t you noticed that your conservative/christian rhetoric are the ones that drive good people to stand for all the minorities? You are the only country in the industrialized world that have this stupid laws and make a huge deal about it. I just recommend you, as the rest of the world does: Go to the bathroom, pee, wash your hands and leave.
Yup, quit reading this comment after she had to justify her notions by pulling out the Bible.
It’s funny when people say transgender bathroom bills “keep their children safer” or that removing the “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” policies in the US Military were going to destroy the services. Guess what? There are ALREADY trans folk using the bathrooms of their gender. Have your children been attacked yet by a trans person? I doubt it (or you would have told your horror story here). So, why would those attacks or whatever start now? Your children (especially girls) are a thousand times more likely to be abused, harassed or raped by a heterosexual man than by a gay man, a lesbian woman, or any sexual preferenced trans person… and probably that heterosexual man will consider himself a devout Evangelical Christian. So, boycotting Target to keep your children safe is hypocritical – you should be keeping your children away from your local church, where statistically there are much more likely to be dangerous predators.
As for saying you’re following Biblical rules about homosexuality – you’re also being a hypocrite about that. You’re picking and choosing the rules you want to follow and leaving the others by the wayside – do you eat shellfish? The Bible says that God told you not to (Lev 11:11).. Do you wear a garment made from two different fabrics? GOd said not to (Lev. 19:19). Do you keep the Sabbath by not doing anything but resting? God told you not to (Lev 19:4). Do you round off the side-growth of your head or know anyone who “harms the edges of their beard”? God said not to (Lev 19:26). Have you ever cursed your father or mother, or know anyone who has? God says they should have been put to death (Lev. 20:8). WHat about adultery? Another death sentence demanded by God in Lev. 20:10. Sex during menstration? That’s a banishing, says Lev 20:17. There’s plenty more where that came from. If you’re going to ignore the rest of Leviticus, why are you so hung up with Lev. 20:13? You’re not a very godly person, obviously, as you’re ignoring 99% of the laws that God set down for you to follow.
There’s not one word about Christianity in the above letter, Rebecca. Unless it’s about the unholy monsters who use Christianity as an excuse to rape and molest children and not get punished for it. It’s about how politicians and Target boycotters are using the protection of women and children as an excuse to marginalize groups of women and children who are different than everyone else who need that protection just as much. You boycott Target because transgender women (Who are least likely to commit any sexual assault) are able to use the women’s restroom without incident. But what about politicians and catholic priests, celebrities, etc. among which there have been so many cases of rape and sexual assault, who can use any public restroom in any store? Tell me. If God is so important to you, as He is to me, why are you more dedicated to speaking out against gender and sexuality variance than to speaking out against rape and murder, sins much more offensive to Him? I am a transgender female. I know. I am going to hell. Don’t think that I don’t think of that as a possibility. i believe that I am on the path that God wants me on by living my life as a trans woman, but I can’t know for sure. None of us can. My point is that I have never, and will never ever do anything to anyone in the women’s restroom, except maybe say hello. But there are laws against me being in there in North Carolina, Mississippi, and Alabama. But there isn’t a single law in any state that forbids registered sex offenders from using any public restroom. Your children have nothing to fear from me or any woman trans or otherwise. But neither of us are more safe because of these laws. As a matter of fact, I’m terrified of Ted Cruz being elected and a national restroom law being passed. Because I was sexually assaulted in the fifth grade. I am at high risk for sexual assault and even higher risk because I’m trans. But nobody is doing anything to curb sexual assault. The issue isn’t at all with your Christianity, but with your apathy. Boycott Target all you want. But neither of us are safer for your doing so.
What would Jesus do? Hmm.. Would he own a gun too?
FYI… Judgy Christian… The Transgender have been using ALL bathrooms for decades now without the governments new signs…
You are one highly misinformed hate filled human I will pray for you
I cant believe anyone in this day and age people can spout that ignorant stance that somehow you are “protecting the family” by taking against your fellow human beings. Not at all what Christ taught. and not the message that should be passed on to your children who have to learn to live in the 21st, not the 18th century
I think Target will be better off without bigots like you.
No one bullies Christians. Christians bully everyone else. You want a Christian theocracy, you’re no different than those who advocate for advocate Islamic theocracy. You too want to silence anyone who doesn’t agree with you. How about Christians start remembering your religious freedom is the right to live they way you want, not the right to force it upon every one else.
Just another bigot hiding their head in a bible…move along.
You’re an idiot.
The problem with a lot of these comments is the message of tolerance. Countries like the United States need to stop tolerating because it leads to hate and resentment. Everyone needs to start accepting people for who they are and stop hating. I am a young practicing RC who is tired of anyone being treated any differently for what they believe, act, do, or who they are. Their personal lives are actually none of your business. If everyone would follow the golden rule of treating others like you would like to be treated the world would be a lot happier place.
If has really sadden me to see someone like Rafael Edward Cruz “Ted” rise in the ranks for the candidacy of president. This is showing how backwards of a direction our country is headed in regards to human rights and equality. It is absurd how differently men and women are treated in the USA. America needs to wake up and realize the sexist 60’s are over. There needs to be a bigger push from the government to treat women equally along with other groups that are been being underpaid for the same work all because they are not a white male. This is a hard task when women only make up 20% of congress and senate.
Well, you’re wrong on a lot of levels. I always speak out. The only cure for a sex offender is death, so don’t say I don’t speak out against lenient sentences for sex offenders. I don’t care what gays or transgender people do, don’t care about gay marriage, kid with skittles…assuming you mean Trayvon..yeah, not a child… kid in the park, well if you point a gun that looks real at a cop, you’re getting shot ( they received a call about a kid with a gun, pointing it at people) the kid walked toward a speeding cop car and pulled the gun out and pointed it at them.
But on to my main point ….I don’t want a stranger with male genitals in the bathroom with my daughter…I suppose I could always go with her and pretend I am her mother….and no, sorry to pop your liberal bubble about my beliefs, I vote republican because the left is MORE insane than the right, but I am an atheist. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Christian.
You “pull yourself up and keep going”. Meanwhile, the rest of us are fighting for those who can’t fight for themselves. Pat yourself on the back lady, clearly you think you’re doing a good job. But you’re not. Try thinking about others, not just yourself.
You are misguided idiot. Poke your head up out your holier-than-thou bible bubble and see what really going on some time. Target. Unsafe? Spare me.
Have you ever been sexually abused and then raped since an early age? No I don’t think you were or you would not have the guts to say what you just did, so don’t you dare judge someone that has. So if you are pissed because someone signed petition with their chicken scratch, then you can kiss my ass. I have the freedom to say what I want. So before you go to bed tonight, put your child in the place of one of those children and that was just sexually abused or raped and see how you feel then.
Actually I was and I have written about it for another website twice. I was very young and it didn’t happen in a public bathroom. Sexual Assault Victim’s Rights groups have come out very strongly stating that they do not agree with using women and rape and abuse victims as the reasoning for a law that encourages discrimination. If you click on the links (highlighted in red) you will see the articles I have linked to that back this up. I have always been highly vigilant of my children in public places and public bathrooms. A Pro Transgender bathroom law will not change that and not put my children in any further danger. (Again, check out the articles. The stories going around on websites like Brietbart have been debunked.)
Most of the people who sexually assault are straight white men, not trans people. This has been studied.
Hello Anon! Gutless move by the way, but I get it. Putting your face where your mouth is can be hard.
I was abused. Yes indeedy! I was abused at age nine. And I mean sexually abused. It was a trusted family friend who conned my parents. Oh and me. I didn’t even know WHAT SEX WAS at that time.
Guess what. My mom was sexually abused too as a child. By her cousin. And oh, he is now a Bishop of the Catholic Church. Even kissed various popes rings n’all. I know a LOT of women who were sexually violated as kids and they ALL WERE ABUSED BY PEOPLE THEY TRUSTED! Creepy, ain’t it? The possibility of sexual abuse in a public bathroom is really small. Ya know why? People keep turning up to , you know…PEE, so it’s a sucky place for a predator.
I have kids. And I don’t worry about them in a public rest room. The only thing I worry about it germs. Oh, and toilet paper.
You gutless coward, she’s talked about her molestation on earlier articles. People like you are so miserable.
Well said, The hypocrisy religious hatred now with this crap about bathrooms and trans. So far, nobody has been raped by a transgender in a bathroom. Typically, male molesters are heterosexual , but 90 percent of the cases molestation happens with someone you know. should not we try to fix REAL CURRENT PROBLEMS we actually have? Guns, crime, education, homeless, drugs, human rights, discrimination, etc? This country is so f*ck up… Agree with you; and this woman Rebecca as she calls herself a christian, can’t see where her values are in her comment.
Here’s what I say to them: 1) Trans people have been using bathrooms they identify with for a long time, and people don’t even know it. 2) This policy was probably put in place because these same people complained to begin with, so that the transgender people’s rights are protected. If you would only mind your own business… 3) Molesters are not always men, or “odd”-looking people; sometimes they are the most normal looking, most trusted people that have gained the family’s trust. 4) Why not go to the bathroom with your kid when you go to Target if you’re so afraid of your kids being molested? If you’re such a good parent that you worry so much about your kid’s safety, you shouldn’t be letting them go to the bathroom alone. 5) What’s next? Lesbians aren’t allowed to go to women’s bathroom? Non-Christians aren’t allowed within 50 feet of your child?
Reblogged this on bannon06.
pretending that something abnormal, is normal, doesn’t make it so.
True. Richie. It is abnormal for people to belittle and stigmatize male to female transsexuals who, by the way, are impotent and have reduced sex drive after several months on testosterone blockers and estrogen.estrogen. No, the rapists are the family friend, the congressman, the pastor, not the transgendered person.
Like its normal for people to be so obsessed with what is between someone else’s legs…..especially a strangers! Not quite sure what it is your are doing while in a restroom, but I’m sure as hell not obsessing nor even looking to see what is between other’s legs. It’s sounding like you are one of those perverts we all need to protect our children from!!
Reblogged this on Archie! DOWN! and commented:
Sometimes, these men you’re so scared of sneaking into the bathrooms….are your own father. You spend your entire childhoid wondering what you and your mother did so wrong, to be hurt so much by the one man who was supposed to keep you safe.
I feel safer when I’m with a friend, if it happens to be a man…he walks into the men’s room and waits infront of the stall for me. Even though my dad is long dead and I’m all grown up, the nightmares that I survived still haunt me.
My dad molested me, he beat my mother and I, he hurt us deeply with his words. He tore us down and made us believe we were worthless. That there was no hope. No escape.
I now go to mental therapy because of him. I’ll never have children because he forced himself in me so young, he tore up my insides. The scarring I have is so bad, I can never have my own babies. A part of me was overjoyed at hearing this, the monster he was to me, he was obsessed with trying to impregnate me since I was ten…the sheer terror I may have had an inbred child always gnawed at me. I could let that go now, knowing it was imposdible.
Where is the help for those like me, instead of fussing about people who need to use a bathroom? I bet they didn’t know back when bathrooms were separated only by your place in society, there was far less danger to anyone? Opposite genders even bathed together without thinking about rape! How screwed up is that?
I am so sorry that happened to you. All I can say is that you are the most courageous person I have read about in a very long time. Truly. Thank you for writing what you wrote here. Because you are still here. And you are not nuts. And you have escaped him and even if you are still afraid, I don’t think you will be forever. Because you have the courage to write about it right here in the world. Thank you for that.
Really? just shut up.
Oh my gosh! People are not upset about trans people using the bathrooms! People are upset about the uproar caused by requesting non gender specific restrooms! If this is such a gigantic deal then turn the family restroom into a unisex! Problem solved! You can stomp your feet all you want but it’s obvious you don’t care about both sides. If this is about feelings then why are one persons more valuable then another! In the last few years people find so much nonsense garbage to throw a fit about!! It’s the constant whining that is forming groups and alliances against each other! If you are not a simpleton then I think you can make your own decision. Your article was a little excessive about confronting issues WAY worse then transgender bathrooms! Maybe you should follow that judgement free attitude by being uhhhhhhhh judgement free
“Your article was a little excessive about confronting issues WAY worse then transgender bathrooms!”
You’re starting to actually get the point.
This isn’t about bathrooms, anymore than the anti-Civil Rights movement was about drinking fountains. Both are small scale elements of much larger issues.
Sexual predators come in all shapes, sizes and sexual preferences. To say that they don’t come as bearded men wearing dresses proves you do not know or recognize this fact.
No one wants to see women and children sexually abused. Your blog post is only relevant because of a lopsided view that certain people only see and fight for a popular political issue. Their voices, like mine, have demonstrated time and again that they don’t stand for injustice. Period.
When I got on the witness stand to be examined by multiple attorneys for the molestation and rape of my little sister by a *cross-dressing man*, it was one of the hardest and bravest things I’ve ever done in life.
Studies show that trans people don’t assault anyone in bathrooms. You need to read a book instead of normalizing molestation. Cross dressers don’t molest. Straight cis men molest and then dress up and lie and say they’re trans when the two aren’t related. You’re an idiot.
Hello 🙂 I’m so happy you wrote this piece. Thank you for sharing. I started to read the comments and had to stop almost immediately because I found myself horrified and unable to comprehend such nastiness. It takes a lot of bravery to speak out. I wish you peace. Have a lovely evening. 🙂
Single user bathrooms….
It sounds like you are saying that because society has not solved these myriad of problems that they are wrong for questioning/complaining about anything. It sounds like you are trying to shut them down because this is how they view a matter. Your fancy raging is a rabbit trail.
Reblogged this on worldsinthenet and commented:
A brief foray into the socio-political.
As I’ve said elsewhere, it’s not about restrooms any more than the 1960s movements were about drinking fountains.
I’m wondering if some of this stuff lately, like the Target restroom debacle, isn’t the straw that broke the camel’s back. Because all the other issues you mention are serious, neglected issues and you know how it is – sometimes it’s some trivial thing that puts people over the edge.
Where were you when all the babies are aborted?
Probably adopting all of the kids that the conservative christians refuse to adopt after they prevent the abortions. Or perhaps she was fighting for the money that conservative christians vote to take away from the organizations that will fund birth control from preventing unwanted pregnancy or perhaps she was donating money that conservative christians voted to take away from the organizations that help those in foster care or early education who are trying to support the babies that were not aborted. In other words, she was probably where most people who aren’t christians were and continue to be, actually helping the children once they’re born. If one of out of three families in every church in America adopted a foster care child right now? Guess what – no more kids in foster care. But we all know how much you really care about kids. You’ll never do it.
maybe you should stop making assumptions. First of all adoption and forteresse care is not as atteignable as you make it sound. If it were people wouldnt go to other countries to adopt.
I have to wonder if those who are supporting laws such as North Carolina’s HB2 even have a clue what it says or the consequences of it!! All they are able to somewhat grasp is the fact that it would prevent places like Target from “allowing those deviants, queers & pediophiles from entering women’s restrooms” or so they think. Let’s face it, it had nothing to do with protecting women and children. They are simply being used in the propaganda as pawns to defend hatred and legislated discrimination! Here is what this knee jerk law passed due to people’s paranoid and irrational fears will actually do:
Please be patient because it’s very long!! 😡
It’s not about the women and children, it’s only a way to justify discrimination, hate and control. The women and children are simply being used in the propaganda to illicit an emotional response (no matter how irrational) to get more people to back the discrimination and hate!! With that said….
I just wish people would stop to think long enough to grasp what the NC HB2 law ACTUALLY does – which is exactly the direct opposite of what they believe it accomplishes. This law actually makes it EASIER for someone with ill intent to enter the restroom of their choice. NOW it will be LAW for people who do not even remotely resemble the designated gender on the door of that particular restroom to enter. The HB2 law forces grown men (by appearance) to use the women’s restroom. Forces grown women (by appearance) to use the men’s restroom. Therefore you will have no idea if that man is a transmale (female to male) or simply a biological man will ill intent!! Or vice versa. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?
What about non transgender women (straight or gay) who appear more “butch”? Guess we need a dress code to simply use the restroom. Stepford wife attire only. Ladies – no jeans, tennis shoes, baggy clothes, super short hair, etc.
Anti – discrimination laws concerning restrooms do not give anyone anymore freedom to enter a public restroom designated for the opposite sex. I don’t want to live in a world where I must show ID simply to pee!! Oh wait, IDs can be faked. Guess we need to institute “genital police” at the entrance of every public restroom to “inspect” each person and verify the “parts” they are peeing with. Sounds pretty silly doesn’t it? But that is the only way you are going to know 100% who has male and female parts.
Frankly I don’t care what is between the legs of the person in the stall (3 walls, door & latch) next to me. The only time I concern myself with what is between someone else’s legs is if I am considering allowing them between mine – which is not 99.9999% of the people in the restroom with me.
Pedophilia and rape are ALREADY ILLEGAL …..no need to create a law!!!
Bottom line you have 1 of 3 choices:
1) leave it as its always been and allow the transgender population to use the restroom of the gender they live as, dress as, identify as and would best blend in with.
2) keep North Carolina’s HB2 law and force people to use the restroom that matches their birth gender but is the complete opposite of the way they look, live, identify with. Therefore having what appears to be grown men in the ladies room and grown women in the men’s room.
3) Do not use the public restrooms or wait your turn for the family/unisex single restroom.
Neither of the two options prevent those intent to commit crimes in the restrooms from doing so. In fact, option #2 makes it even easier for the criminal to blend in without having to dress a different part!!
Sorry that is the simplest form it can be broken down to those who either can not read, refuse to read, or insist on remaining willfully ignorant on the topic.
How will the ridiculous paranoid nuts deal with trans men, big burly ones who are sexually attracted to women, will be required to use the ladies rooms under the law because they are bio women?Never thought of that did you, you false Christiand.Jesus would smack the crap out if you just like the money changers.Hate-filled fake Christian hypocrites!!
They say brevity is the soul of wit. If this is the case, your argument is the antithesis. Men and boys should use the men’s room; women and girls the women’s. It really is that simple. And if, by some fluke, folks lose sight of the fact that truth is an absolute (in this case gender) and want to believe or argue that truth is a matter of perspective, they are free to put question marks on both bathroom doors, and people who disagree are free not to frequent the locale. And yet, still not content with with transgender safe spaces in both bathrooms at Target, the OP would rail against all who have a difference of opinion.
The main point of the article is that, in the contorted logic of author, folks who think that folks should use the restroom that corresponds with their biological gender have been absent or silent through a host of other incidents or issues, i.e. “Where were you when a child was shot because his radio was too loud?” Excuse me? What does that have to do with Target bathroom policy, or ANYTHING else? Its as if to suggest that anyone who disagrees with cross dressing men using the ladies room HAVE to disagree with the OP on a host of other issues. Paint with a broad brush much? Do you crow loudly down at the hipster bistro about how open minded and tolerant you are? I happen to think boys should use the boys room and girls the ladies, like we all learned in elementary school. ANYTHING else you think you know about me, or indeed anyone who shares my opinion on this issue, is just speculation—your complaining about it just hollering into the wind. The beauty of free market capitalism is that we don’t have to shop there, so have at it and audios!
It’s about tossing every liberal social justice faux-outrage at the wall and hoping quantity is greater that quality when it comes to making an argument.
Your confusion Ms. Mommyblogger probably stems from the fact that the things “we’re quiet about” are less reality and more crap stuffed into your then-empty collegiate head. You see, most things that SJWs and Tumblr activists get upset about and wonder why nothing is done about them is simple: these things have to be based in reality first. Male entitlement? You showed your hand there.
Another loving comment from yet another loving Christian.
Joe. Do the cause of Christ a favour.
Shut the hell up.
I get the discomfort. I work at a store and when transgender or transvestite people (particularly men transitioning to women) come in the store, I try to treat them the same as everyone else but I feel uncomfortable. And you know what? That’s my problem. When I was growing up, I was uncomfortable being around gay people but I’ve outgrown that. I’ve worked with gay people all of my life and, really, I don’t give it a second thought anymore. I am hopeful I will outgrow my discomfort with transgender people because, like I said, it is my problem and I will be a better person for it. At the very least, I should not try to punish them for my discomfort. This bathroom issue is mostly about discomfort and punishment. I think this post pretty much sums up how the security issue is way overblown.
Apparently the “Christians” have never heard Matthew chapter 25, verses 34-40. They REALLY should become better acquainted with their own book. When an “evil” Pagan shows more love and compassion than they do, it can be very telling.
Hell no, I will not be silent. I will walk with transgender women into the restroom and support them. I will listen to rape victims and support them. I will argue that dress codes only teach girls that their education is not as important as a boy’s.
And I will support my LGBT friends and FAMILY- because it is the RIGHT thing to do. I did it this summer after a friend was assaulted in her OWN HOME.
I raised my voice then, I raise my voice now.
Target is right-
It’s cool and that you want to be a professional victim and all, but there is zero evidence that LGB, and T and Q and whatever other fucking letter or symbol you want to tack on to a now overly convoluted acronym, people are now or have ever been at personal risk in bathrooms to the point of needing their own ‘unisex’ bathrooms or wanting to use whatever bathroom for whatever gender they ‘identify as’. To claim otherwise is fearmongering.
To use a popular trope of your so-called movement; #Its2016, grow up and use the bathroom for the gender you were born as. And there’s only two genders. It’s called scientific fact.
Where were YOU?
When a Democrat congressmen suggest that you shouldn’t be allowed to carry a gun to defend yourself from rapists, because “you don’t know who you’ll be shooting at” and “that’s why we have whistles, and call boxes, and safe zones”
Where the hell have you been?
When a Colorado college suggested women should deter rapists by urinating, vomiting, and defecating themselves…instead of carrying a gun to defend themselves!
Where were you when feminists slutshamed a rape victim for coming out against neo-feminism?
The fact is, there has been no deafening silence for people living in the real world. For people like you who spend their fleeting days in echo chambers, however, it’s a different story.
Go cherry-pick more, I can do it too.
Well honey it’s time to read more science. You know, neuroscience. Oh, for example: http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full
or even this: if you want an easier read and something with color pictures.
Next time you start talking “science” then perhaps you need to read something current and peer reviewed.
Yes, I have a PhD. And I’m a woman.
YerkesDodsonCurve (it’s a math thing)
You ate all over the place. Why don’t you Xtians teach your men not to rape instead of arming yourselves with guns that statistically ate more likely to be used against you?
Take note that a conservative site posted this :
You clearly don’t read. Tie your tubes.
“A new study from the Williams Institute confirms that transgender people face significant levels of discrimination and harassment simply when trying to use the restroom. The study focused on people who identify as transgender or gender non-conforming/genderqueer in the Washington, DC area and found that an overwhelming majority — 70 percent — had experienced some sort of negative reaction when using a bathroom. The study notes that this is in spite of the fact that DC’s enforcement regulations contain “the strongest language in the country in regard to gender-segregated public facilities” to protect trans people from just these sorts of issues
The primary experience trans people reported was verbal harassment, with 68 percent reporting they were told they were in the wrong facility, told to leave the facility, questioned about their gender, ridiculed or made fun of, verbally threatened, or stared at and given strange looks. Some also shared that the police were called and others noted that they were followed after using a facility. For 9 percent of respondents, actual physical assault has also occurred, including being forcibly removed from the restroom, hit or kicked, intimidated or cornered, or slapped; one respondent reported being sexually assaulted.
Moreover, 18 percent of respondents reported they were simply denied access to a restroom. Several of them were students whose education suffered because of this discrimination, in part because of excessive absences. Those who experienced issues in the workplace felt it contributed to poor job performance, and some even changed jobs or simply quit their jobs to avoid the confrontations.
There were health consequences for respondents as well, with 54 percent reporting physical complications like dehydration, urinary tract infections, kidney infections, and other kidney problems simply because of the tactics they used to avoid going to the restroom during the day. Many health facilities also have gender-segregated restrooms, which discourages individuals from seeking treatment for these conditions. As many as 58 percent have avoided going out in public at times because of bathroom concerns.”
Reblogged this on The Chronicles of Pete and commented:
Interesting to see that your “Where were you…” sentiment and calling out all kinds of child endangerment scenarios doesn’t once address the children that are murdered in the mother’s womb. That just shows that you too “choose” to be silent on that very serious issue that affects society’s view of life. You pick and choose which children are worth fighting for. Your “justice” and “outcry” is selective too.
That’s because abortion isn’t murder and it’s legal in the United States, regardless of what you think. Don’t like abortion? Don’t get one. But it’s still legal.
We’re not talking about what is legal or illegal. I simply addressed the different child endangerment scenarios and how selective the author was to express a point. Destroying life, in whatever form, ends in death. The opposite of life is death.
Except that’s exactly what we’re talking about, we’re talking about illegal vs legal activity. Go read the original thread again and try to have a conversation that doesn’t fit your own very specific terms. Or don’t, keep producing millions of children via IVF as christians do without adopting or fostering hardly any of the kids that you saved from abortion and leave us to talk about the actual topic. If just three people in each of the defined churches in America adopted instead of spending millions of dollars in IVF to get your fill up your quiver of children? We’d have no childless homes but we all know you’re never going to do that. Thank you.
My original comment was in response to the author’s piece only. It was she who went into addressing different types of child and women endangarement scenarios, her focus was not about legal vs. illegal. The author talked about caring for children and women hence the “Where were you when…” pattern. I don’t see the author addressing adoption or IVF in her declarations.
Abortion isn’t murder. Unless you’re calling your god a murderer. LOL
What is your definition of abortion? What do you call deliberately terminating the life of any living thing?
Words are not up to personal interpretation. The definition is the definition.
If you see abortion as “deliberately terminating the lofe of any living thing”, then you should never wash, as every time you do, you murder thousands of single and multi-celled organisms – most more advanced and containing more sentience than fetuses that are aborted.
The only reason you are being asked your definition of abortion is because it was you who stated that “Abortion isn’t murder.” I was simply enquiring your point of why you didn’t consider it murder, hence the question of defining it.
In regards to your comment about “washing” you should know given biology and anatomy that what you wash off/scrub off are dead cells. We have several layers and it takes roughly one month of new cells to get all the way to the top layer, therefore, washing would not be deep enough get all of the dead cells.
I stated a fact. It isn’t murder. Read the definition. I didn’t say that you couldn’t inquire, I simply said that a rational person doesn’t make up their own definitions. Words have meanings that aren’t up for interpretation.
LOL How many layers of skin you have has absolutely nothing to do with you murdering thousands of organisms every time you wash. You should know that you’re wrong. There are microorganisms on your skin. There are organisms, specifically on your eyelids which keep bacteria from getting into your eyes. The mites eat the skin surrounding your eyelashes and shit on your face.
And this science piece:
So like I said, you murder hundreds of thousands of life forms which are more evolved than fetuses every single day of your life.
Abortion isn’t murder. Read the definition of the word. I have never said that you couldn’t inquire about anything. I said that a rational person doesn’t make up their own definitions. Words have meanings that aren’t up for interpretation.
LOL How many layers of skin you have has absolutely no bearing on the lives of others, nor the fact that you murder thousands of organisms every day. There are organisms on your eyelids which keep bacteria from getting into your eyes. They eat the bacteria and then shit on your face.
Science story about the organisms living on your skin that you murder every day. These are more developed than fetuses at 18 weeks:
Given your statement, I can tell you have not looked up the definition of the word in any dictionary. If you had, you would know that it describes it as ‘termination of pregnancy,” “removal of the embryo to end pregnancy” and so on, which means a deliberate action is required to end a pregnancy in progress. Once the pregnancy exists, the process of development exists, therefore, life starts its process.
You were the one that brought up “you should never wash, as every time you do, you murder thousands of single and multi-celled organisms.” That’s why I brought up washing your skin as an example.
The article you presented as evidence does not talk about the age of the skin and its stages (i.e. 18 week old skin cycle, 1 or more months and so forth), so it can’t be used as a standard of measure against an 18 week old human pregnancy. Development should be measured within the nature of its kind; why? because the length and stages of its kind define its maturity status.
The assessment you make of “being more developed” only stands if it is compared to its type. For example, apples to apples and not apples to lemons or apples to watermelons. Requirements of one type versus another type can be different and are not necessarily equal.
When it comes to the human development from its beginning it should be noted that regardless of its stage of development, it is still a human, not a dog or a plant or a fruit (it is human DNA from the beginning). For example, to say that a 1 yr old baby is not as human as a 90 yr old adult because it has only lived one year would not be accurate. The 1 yr old baby is just as human as the 90 yr old adult; they both have human DNA.
As a side note, my responses to you have only been in regards to the topics/you introduce and address. Keep track of the points you are introducing to better understand my comments.
From my response, you should be able to tell that I was mocking your supposed care for the preservation of life, and calling you a hypocrite since you murder tens of thousands of organisms every single day. I brought up washing as an example, Dumbass, not you. Do you even read what you write? That you are so daft the you couldn’t see the simple parallel between multi-celled organisms that live on your skin and the multi-celled fetus which acts as a parasite to its would-be mother communicates to all how much you don’t understand about science. All scientists understand that these organisms are parasitic and can be threatening to your health.
Wrong. Deliberate action is NOT necessary to end a pregnancy in order for it to be determined an “abortion”. If you knew anything about the medical field, you’d be aware that there is such a thing as a “spontaneous abortion” caused by drinking things like ginger tea and energy drinks while pregnant. Miscarriages are accidents caused by the body. Spontaneous abortions are usually caused by outside stimuli.
“Once the pregnancy exists, the process of development exists, therefore, life starts its process”? LMFAO You are sooooo wrong. First of all, pregnancy is a term with begins at an, as of yet, undetermined time (as studies show that humans are actually pregnant for close to 10 months, not the previously assumed 9) it is NOT a process. No one is a little pregnant, nor do pregnancies “exist” as you claim. And NO development doesn’t equal life. Our eggs develop constantly and then they she’d once they aren’t fertilized. Sperms abortions egg also meet very often and begin to develop but stop for one reason or another and you are none the wiser.
The article I shared doesn’t have to talk about age of skin nor its stages. The fact that there are organisms living on your skin should give you pause as you claimed to value all life. You do know that most (65% of all) pregnancies never make it to 18 weeks because of miscarriages, right? So it doesn’t need to be compared to an 18 week old fetus, it could be compared to a two week old ball of cells that attached itself to your fallopian tubes. Both will be terminated for the sake of your health. 18 weeks is the period where one must come to a decision about their abortion.
We place human DNA in pigs, monkeys, bananas, apples, and dogs in order to test and grow body parts, FYI. The assessment that I made about “the organisms being on your skin being more developed than a fetus” was because a fetus has no organs and no sentience unlike the organisms on your skin. The organisms in your womb and on your skin do what they can to survive – they will eliminate each other and feed off of you in order to survive like any other parasites – the organisms on your skin are capable of strategic maneuvers and reproduction, however, unlike the fetus which is one opening that eats it’s own hair and throws it up for months.
You went way too far, rambling on with all of those apples to oranges analogies. It was barely coherent. LOL You really need to stop acting like you know anything at all, because I’ve already shown you to be severely lacking in this subject. You just keep digging that hole.
Since I don’t know you, I am not going to assume any type of feeling and will only go by the words you use to respond to my comments. I am not going to read in-between lines with feelings either like you’re saying I should have. I was only considering the words of your statements and nothing else, I could have assumed a lot of things just by the fact that both of us are on different sides of a topic…yet I chose to not go there to keep it about the topics at hand. I’m not interested in getting into “feeling” battles, just stick to the meaning of the words/concepts being addressed.
I never said I brought up washing as an example, I said I had given an example of washing dead skin cells as an example given the fact that you were the one that brought up “washing.” I never once stated that I saw a baby in the womb as a parasitic organism, so I would not compare it to it or the function of a parasite. If you believe a baby in the womb to be a parasitic organism, then just state it.
Imposed termination due to non-natural causes is deliberate. Miscarriages were not part of the conversation, I only addressed the procedure considered non-natural by definition, which is defined in the dictionaries as purposely “terminating a pregnancy” which is completely different from miscarriages, which you correctly stated as an unforeseen natural termination/accident.
Pregnancy starts when the egg and the sperm unite; fertilization, conception. That’s pure biological science, not an opinion or a feeling. The conversation was not about whether women are pregnant 9 or 10 months or 6 months, etc. Pregnancy is a process in which there are several stages of development…once again science and not an opinion. Eggs are developed in the ovaries, then pushed into the fallopian tubes and then travel to the uterus…if not used, they are expelled. Sperm is developed in the testicles and then proceed and are expelled. The conversation was about what happens after they merge and become one, pregnancy.
Because I value life, I defend life at conception. You have the freedom to not defend life of conception and it is your prerogative. FYI in some states, you can make a decision up to 20 weeks or 22 weeks…there is also something called late term abortion which goes way beyond the 18, 20 and 22 weeks.
Placing human DNA in a pig, monkey, etc. is still placing human DNA and not pig DNA or monkey DNA…so you’re proving my point that human DNA will always be human DNA regardless of where it is.
An 18 week old “fetus” does have organs at that point: At 18 weeks there is a heart beat, there is a formed and functioning heart in its place (which is why when you go at 18 weeks to an ultrasound they check the rhythm of the heart beat of the baby); there is a spine, a chest, a head, an abdomen, legs, arms, hands, feet. At 18 weeks if it’s a girl the uterus and fallopian tubes are already formed and in place. If it’s a boy, genitals are noticeable and in place…all science and not an opinion.
Not once did I mention anything about analogies of oranges. I simply stated that a comparison needed to happen apples to apples…as in the concept and not the actual fruit. If you didn’t understand the apple to apples reference, then I can understand why you thought it was not coherent. If that was the case, I apologize for not explaining the concept…I assumed you knew it.
I’m not digging a hole, I’m simply answering you.
Where did I say that you “should read in between lines with feelings”? There are absolutely no feelings here. LOL
You did assume a lot. You assumed that I misunderstood you and that I knew nothing of abortion and that I hadn’t read the definition despite me proving the exact opposite in my comprehensive posts and the articles/studies I provided. How could you go off of what was written, but pull inaccuracies out of nowhere?
Pregnancy does NOT start when the sperm fertilizes the egg. Pregnancy begins when a fertilized egg attaches itself to a wall (the uterus, the fallopian tube, almost anything) in the body, hopefully in, but many times not in the uterus, and shows signs of growing.
You don’t need to say that a fetus is a parasitic organism. Science says that. Literally. I never said you claimed such. Why do you think that every statement I make is about you or something you have said? Up your reading comprehension. Things you have said are in quotations and I literally write, “You said”. Otherwise it has nothing to do with you.
“That’s why I brought up washing as an example”. That’s a direct quote. Agains, read what you write.
“Imposed termination due to non-natural causes is deliberate”. That’s not English and it also makes the abortion procedure not abortion. Do you know what an abortion procedure entails at all? You keep changing the definition of the word abortion as your lack of knowledge of the term is made obvious.
Here: “From my response, you should be able to tell that I was mocking your supposed care for the preservation of life,”
Questioning your stance/position is not assuming you know nothing about abortion, it is simply questioning your position/statement on the topic. If what you or me say happens to be contrary to what the definition is, then anybody can question why it’s different…that’s all it is, questioning and not assuming.
We choose whether or not we get frustrated, annoyed, etc. while giving answers. I personally have not been frustrated or annoyed at your answers. To me it’s a conversation.
The medical dictionary defines pregnancy as: the period from conception to birth. That wasn’t me making it up, that’s what science defines it as.
Nobody is accusing you of anything nor am I assuming that every statement is about me. I only read what you’re stating about the topic and nothing else. I read and answered about your comments only.
I do know what the abortion procedure to terminate a pregnancy is like. I have actually witnessed them. I have not once changed the definition of abortion when it comes to terminating a pregnancy. This part of abortion is the only thing I’ve been focused on…not miscarriages, not accidents, not anything else. All other subject and turns were introduced by you and I chose not to ignore them but acknowledge them by answer back to them. I didn’t have to respond to any of it but I chose to and it’s ok.
It’s cute that you think what you’re saying is correct and that you’re difficult to understand. Nothing you’ve yet stated has been based in fact and you’ve gone so far off topic that you can’t even remember what you’ve written, yet you tell me to keep track of the points I’m introducing to better understand you? LMFAO You truly are delusional.
It is not about cuteness, it’s about people holding a conversation about a topic. You most definitely have the freedom to state whatever you want but stating that I’m not using facts is not accurate…for the definitions of words all you have to do is look them up in dictionaries: standard or medical, you pick. For the stages of pregnancy, you can look that up too in scientific books, google, yahoo, bing…whatever your preference is.
I only answer back based on your answers. It was you who interjected yourself into my initial comment about the author’s piece. I didn’t seek you and personally I don’t mind having these types of conversations nor do they bother me nor do I get into name calling just because you’re not seeing it the way I’m seeing it. This is simply a conversation and not theatrics.
Oy vey. You don’t understand anything. You’re not holding a conversation about a topic. You are telling me that I know nothing about a topic and I am stating facts and you’re backpedaling.
You don’t need to acknowledge the rights granted to me by the government to speak as I wish since you don’t work for the government and the 1st amendment has nothing to do with this.
Your opinion means absolutely nothing in the face of facts. Educate yourself and stop prattling. Read:
“According to both the scientific community and long-standing federal policy, a woman is considered pregnant only when a fertilized egg has implanted in the wall of her uterus”
That you’d date to claim my informing you is theatrics is hilarious. These things don’t bother you because ignorance is bliss. You don’t know anything about this subject, yet you speak as if you do. Again, nothing you have written has been sensible. I am refuting what you’ve said and all you say is that I don’t understand you and that this is apples to oranges. No. You’re just wrong about everything. No one cares about you being bothered nor your or anyone else’s feelings. This is fact based yet you divert the convo to spout on for paragraphs about “I only answer back based on your answers”… “these types of conversations don’t bother me”. And? So random.
Your need to focus on the stages of pregnancy for no reason is weird, but you need to read the links I posted least you continue typing the responses you have here, elsewhere.
I’m not surprised that you used the Guttmacher Institute to prove your point, a non-profit organization that works to advance reproductive health through birth control, including abortion. A semi-autonomous division of Planned Parenthood…with this, I now understand where you are coming from and it explains your approach. Got it, no need to explain your statements further.
It is a clump of cells. Can it live outside of the womb? No? Then it is not a living thing. Also you should stop having your period, because that egg you’re washing away is a potential living thing, right?
A living clump of cells is still a living clump of cells. Our bodies are full of living clumps of cells (brain, lungs, liver, stomach, etc.). Any type of cell that needs the body in order to remain alive and is taken outside its place and outside the body for ever will die. Just like your heart needs to be connected in order to keep it moving and pumping blood, you remove that source and the tissue deteriorates and dies.
In regards to a “period” you should know that biology/anatomy dictates that once an egg is produced and it is not used, the body turns it into waste and expels it. No different from eating perfectly good food, the body gets what it needs and then the rest turns into waste, hence why you pee and poop. Our body does hundreds and hundreds of cycles of intaking and then pushing out waste.
We’re not talking about potential living things, we are talking about things that are actually living and are in different stages of life.
“They are a savvy bunch, these sick bastards. They flock to places where they can gain your trust. They go to great pains to appear normal and friendly. They don’t sport a beard and a dress and waltz into the bathroom to attack your women and children.”
Thank you for proving the point that I understood from boycotts perspective and I’m 15. These “sick bastards” will probably pretend to be trans and walk into a bathroom of opposite sex. Just FYI my friends at school have already tried it for fun. Not sure of results but they have and more are talking about who can pull it off. Childish I know. So I’m not sure it has to do anything with gay or transgender people but with these “savy bunch” you talk about in your article… that scare kids like me. Oh and I’m gay. And what’s with “your women and children” I thought gays are the same as everyone. Think you strayed really far from the point with your article.
ummm…since you say you are gay…why on earth are you attempting to make it harder for trans people by visiting the opposite bathroom than your professed gender? Just a teenager causing trouble but honestly you are just screwing things up for other people, who just want to use the toilet. Grow up.
Sounds like the person who wrote this has anger issues and probably needs therapy. Men have no business in the bathroom with wome . I