I hear you.
You’re angry.
I get it, I’m angry too.
I’m not talking to the people who are angry at Target because their Pro Transgender bathroom policy flies in the face of their cherry picked moral compass. I’m not under any obligation to respect their beliefs.
I’m talking to you… the people who have no issue with sharing a bathroom with LGBT people. I’m talking to those of you who are speaking out about this bathroom policy, expressing concern over the women and children who you fear will be in danger because of this policy.
You’re reasonable people. You aren’t expressing hate or bigotry. You just worry. You worry about your kids, your wives, your sisters. I worry too.
I probably worry too much. I have always accompanied my younger kids to the bathroom in public places. When my son was too old to go into the women’s room, I would stand right outside the Men’s room door. If he was taking a while I would yell through the door, asking if he was ok. So, yes, I’m that mom.
I worry. I have always been a little leery of public restrooms.
But I’m not boycotting Target and I’m no more worried about my kids’ safety than I was before.
Even though I’m a worrier, I read and I research. Facts help to calm my fears. Facts that show that in states with pro-Transgender bathroom policies, there has been no increase in assaults. Research that leads me to find an article by a Sexual Assault Victim’s Advocacy Group that is stating very clearly that pro-Trans bathroom policies do not increase the danger of sexual assault for anyone. They in fact minimize it for LGBT people.
What I see is a lot of fear mongering going around. Stories of men sneaking into the ladies room, emboldened by these laws. Stories that have proven to be false. And some that are orchestrated to incite more fear.
So, I’m going to try to say the rest of this gently because to be honest, it’s all got me worked up and more than a little angry. It’s got a question bouncing around my head for the last few days… one that makes me angrier every time I think it…
Where have you been?
You say you are concerned for women and children. That the thought of sexual assault in a Target bathroom is so concerning that you may boycott, that you are forgoing your usual pleasant FaceBook anecdotes and memes to shout about the new policy…
Where the hell have you been?
You, the protectors of women and children. Where have you been when we’ve been writing and talking about rape? When some of us have been shouting about these things for years, begging for people to listen, to care. To see the pain and destruction of these things that plague our society.
When we’ve been the ones to make you feel uncomfortable because we are invading your mindless FaceBooking and Tweeting with rants about injustice and startling statistics of rape that should have any sane person’s hair standing on end?
Where were your angry voices when a Presidential candidate suggested that women who don’t want to be raped shouldn’t go to parties?
When actual real life Congressmen claimed that rape victims can’t get pregnant because their body “will shut that down.”
When a court rules that oral sex is not rape if the victim is unconscious from drinking?
When a state legislator in Tennessee is ordered by the TN Attorney General to stay away from women at work because he is a danger to them?
Where were your petitions? Where was your concern? WHY AREN’T YOU SHOUTING ABOUT THESE THINGS???
Where were you when yet another woman was killed by her abusive husband? When a mother was beaten repeatedly. When the “system” that is supposed to protect her allows her violent husband to keep his gun , which he then uses to kill her and her children? Where has your concern been for the 3 women murdered every day by their intimate partner?
Where were you when your favorite college or professional sports hero was accused of rape? Or caught on video beating his wife? Are you still a fan of some of these guys? Do you still cheer them on? Where was the moral outrage to a society that looks past it because he can throw a ball and win games?
Where were you when R.Kelly was allowed to perform, put out another album, collaborate with famous pop singers? Even though he was accused of raping minors and committing cruel acts and even video taped himself doing these horrific and illegal things? Did you stand up and protest then? Did the account of a 15 year old girl’s “disembodied stare” at the video camera as he assaulted her not make you angry?
Where was your angry voice when a rapist was sentenced to 45 days for raping a 14 year old girl?
Where were you when girls were slut shamed after coming forward about their rape?
Where is your loud voice standing up for the homeless women and children? When the U.S. has largest number of homeless women and children among industrialized nations? Is the Target bathroom more of a concern than a mother and her children sleeping in their cars? Or on the street? Or bouncing around homeless shelters?
Where was your self righteous indignation when a child was killed at a park playing with a toy gun? When the police officer who shot him within seconds of arriving on the scene was let off without being charged?
Where were you when a child was shot because his radio was too loud?
Where were you when a child was killed after walking home from buying Skittles? When his murderer was acquitted and went on to make assault two different girlfriends and threaten them with his gun. That he’s still allowed to own.
Where were you when these children were killed? Because I didn’t hear any of you then. I didn’t hear a whole lot of yelling and hand wringing for these children who were mowed down by white male outrage and misguided fear.
When we speak or write or Tweet about everyday sexism and rape culture -that you damn well better believe gives rise to rape and assault- you shrugged. Or rolled your eyes. Or looked away. Or clicked “Unfollow.” Did we make you uncomfortable? All of our ranting and raving about the insidious nature of a society that views women (and hell, children too) as commodities, did it make you feel icky?
You see, I care about women and children (and boys and men) outside of the Target bathrooms. I care about them at home, at school, on the bus, at work, on the street. I care about them regardless of how they’re dressed, regardless of their economic class, no matter their sexual orientation. I care about them when they are being victimized and the world just looks on in apathy.
Those predators you’re so worried will sneak into the Target bathroom? They’re all around you.
They are your Priest, your kid’s coach, your neighbor, your uncle, your youth group leader, your United States Speaker of the House.
They are a savvy bunch, these sick bastards. They flock to places where they can gain your trust. They go to great pains to appear normal and friendly. They don’t sport a beard and a dress and waltz into the bathroom to attack your women and children.
And I can’t help but question concern that only seem to flare up when it’s anti-something. When it’s an “alternative lifestyle.” I question the motivation. I wonder, where the hell have your morals been? Where was your moral outrage when kids were gunned down and college girls were sexually assaulted and women serving in the military were being raped? When women and children were murdered by angry husbands? When restraining orders were granted but in reality offered no protection. When women were threatened online with violence. With rape. With comments like “I know where you live and I will find you and kill you.” Comments that are generated because the woman had the audacity to speak up or write or actually just do her job.
Because I haven’t heard from you about these things. I haven’t heard of petitions or moral outrage from the masses on these things. I haven’t heard much from you at all.
Until now, your silence has been deafening.
So excuse me if I find your newfound activism a little disingenuous. Excuse me if I am rolling my eyes over the furor over using a public restroom. Excuse me if I’m a little worked up over the idea that the “problem” is a Target policy but not the fact that women and children have to be careful and on guard because of a culture that has encouraged male entitlement and subversive sexism and blatant sexualization.
The “problem” you’re screaming about is not the problem. The problem is your apathy all these years to the reality that you refuse to see or acknowledge. It’s a lot easier to believe in the boogey man in the Target bathroom than the real threat that is woven into the very fabric of your Made In the USA security blanket.
Excuse me if I’m a little put off by a flurry of chicken scratched signatures on a fear mongering petition. Excuse me if I think your priorities seem a little slippery.
Because until now? Your silence has been deafening.
1,347 Responses
Doth they proteth too much?
Nah too little, y’all.
Way to sum up my 1500 words succinctly 😉
I love you.
<3
Bra-friggin-vo, Gretch. This is everything I’ve thought but couldn’t weave into words the magical way you have. Sharing this everywhere.
Thank you <3
Well pointed!
Thank you Ramona!
I adore you.
I adore you too <3
I’m sorry to swear, but there is no other way to say this. I fucking love you!
I wrote about this last night also, I wasn’t going to publish but I think today you have given me the strength to do so. Thank you Girlie!
I’m so honored Darla. Your post was amazing and brave and powerful. <3
You never have to apologize for swearing here. I fucking love you too <3
Your post brings to mind the Pink Floyd song, “On the Turning Away.” It has always been the case that society in general sees and feels nothing for that which is not on their own doorstep. And now that the media and the government has a new way to monger fear, and thus stay in control, there is outrage for a new ghost.
People will always fear what they don’t understand. It’s easier to shut it out than make the effort to understand it. It will never happen to them, after all. The basis of it all is denial. Unfortunately, no matter how loud we scream we will never teach. For that matter, screaming is counterproductive. A softer approach is required – one that people can relate to. Where the outside forces (media and government) are “over”-mining the situation, we must “under”-mine it.
We CAN teach people. This is a perfect opportunity. Let’s not let it go to waste.
Perfectly said, Linda. You’re so right. What I keep coming back to… these people are so worried about women and children in the bathrooms (which statistically is not truly a danger) and I keep hearing “We’re making everyone else uncomfortable for (insert small percentage I can’t remember) of the population (meaning the trans population.) Where is their concern for the very real and valid threats that have existed for trans women to have to use the men’s bathroom (one study cited 53% of trans people reported harassment in the bathroom)? Trans men and women face a very real threat of rape, sexual assault, beating and killings simply because of who they are. None of these boycotters seem to be concerned with that.
What is truly dangerous is a couple (so far) of these upright men, standing outside womens bathrooms and accosting women to make sure they’re ‘real’ women.
http://jezebel.com/helpful-man-patrols-texas-ladies-room-tells-woman-your-1773882994
THIS is a fucking disaster waiting to happen.
Every. Single. Word.
Thank you.
Every word that you said needed to be. People seem to always regret facts to make themselves more scared. What is the point of that? Why not ne happy to embrace something new when there is no logical reason to fear? Because, sadly, the homophobic nature of people from the past still lives on. There was a time when people didn’t understand that people could seriously like their own gender without being possessed by a demon or having a mental health disorder. Now, most people understand and accept the fact. With transgendered people, that’s not the case. People now struggle to understand that someone can be a different gender than their genitals say they are. For this reason, they become major rapists when in reality, they are the ones beaten and murdered themselves. A gangster doesn’t let a law stop her from owning a gun and using it to kill people. A rapist will not let a law stop him from going into the women’s restroom and raping someone if he really wants to. The facts show that there’s no risk in giving transgendered people basic rights because it won’t make normal people into rapists.
I’m done… Your article just solidified my beliefs and gave me confidence. Thanks for sharing it:)
Very well written, and brings to mind many things we should be ever more concerned about. However, of most all the things you mentioned there are laws in place to protect against those things. It’s why Speaker Hastert is going to prison. It’s why child abusers when caught are imprisoned, murderers and rapists the same, etc. Those laws are not always enforced, people beat the system, who you know can get you off, and having lots of money goes a long way in your acquittal. It’s part of the corruption in our justice system.
However, there are no laws against the rap culture so disgustingly repulsive they can “sing” anything they want, including raping women or killing police officers, and then appear as an entertainer at the Super Bowl, or on the late night TV talk shows, and made out as icons worshiped by countless millions. Ever hear Jimmy Fallon, Kimmel, Conan, or Colbert take a stand against them? How bout the Hollywood elites, Itunes? Nope, they’re out there promoting them left and right. And, the leftists, those you’re out there protecting, are their biggest supporters. They’re the ones that keep them doing what they’re doing.
There is no law against the celebration of family dysfunction on TV and through the mainstream media by the likes of the Kardashians, a family so sick and dysfunctional I have little doubt it played into “Cat” Jenner’s transgender decision. They’re celebrated by the leftists.
There is no law against a porn industry, now $18 Billion in the US, over $100 Billion worldwide, spurning a national health crisis bringing millions into addiction, tearing up marriages and families, ruining lives, producing sexual deviants, rapists, etc. Yet, you’ll find it laughed about on TV, or toyed with by your favorite actors and actresses in Hollywood. All under the banner of free speech, and no one says a thing.
But, share your privately held convictions you’re against things mentioned above, or homosexuality, or transgenderism, and you’re labeled a hate monger when it’s rarely the case. In fact, the group having more hate thrown at them on TV, in the media, and by the very people you are trying to protect are Christians trying to hold onto some semblance of common sense and common decency. These values are becoming a very rare commodity in this nation.
You know what else all these perversions are producing? An ever growing population of rapists, voyeurs, and sexual deviants. The kind that make their way into restrooms under the kind of policies put in place by Target.
So, here are the questions I have for you. For the sake of common sense and common decency, for the sake of those who value a sense of privacy when they enter a restroom, or change clothes in a locker room in an elementary, middle, or high school, college, or want to be protected from the sex offenders and molesters who never would enter an opposite gender restroom because the law and policies once said they couldn’t, but now do because it says say they can; why is it we should change the entire culture because .003% of our population feels their rights are violated because they can’t enter an opposite sex restroom when they feel like they’re not what their anatomy says they are? Have we completely lost our minds? Why can’t they just do it in the restroom affiliated with their anatomy? Why would they feel uncomfortable doing that? Why are their rights being violated, but the vast majority’s rights are not violated by interfering with their right of privacy, common sense and common decency, and protection? Why are we letting an infinitesimally small percentage of our population determine an identity by their feelings, and let those feelings rule public policy?
“Why can’t they just do it in the restroom affiliated with their anatomy?” Transgenders have been killed for less.
Exactly.
If I have to hear one more person claim that Christians are the most persecuted group in America, I will seriously lose it. I am a Christian and the scope of my privilege is mind boggling, especially considering that I’m also white. I am also the mother of a girl and I am far more fearful of her being assaulted by someone we know and think we can trust than by any stranger in a Target bathroom.
Before you start reckoning up all the ways that you are persecuted, please take a moment to consider the immense privilege that you enjoy. Realize that a colossal portion of the world’s population faces bodily harm, impediments on their basic human rights, and even death because they don’t adhere to your so-called “common sense and common decency.”
Look at the front page of almost any newspaper, read the editorials and opinion pages, watch most any sitcom, TV drama, countless Hollywood film productions, listen to the stand on moral issues by the Hollywood elites, listen to the vast majority of music being produced, listen to what the professors are spewing in colleges and universities, etc, and you can’t miss the attack on judeo-Christian values and moral precepts. Show up at the Oscars, mention God, and things grow cold and distant. God was actually loudly booed at a DEM convention. In CA, you can teach students to recite Islamic quotes from the Quran, but you can’t do the same with the Bible. In fact, there is a growing movement to remove the bible from public schools and libraries. Children are taught to experiment with sex. The family unit is under assault. The NEA is working hard to take over parental authority in public school systems. Forty years ago most women would’ve gladly given their own lives for the child in their womb to live. Not today. Since Roe vs Wade in 1973, 60,000,000 million children of the womb have been murdered through “abortion” in this nation making it a holocaust, and the nation doesn’t even blush.
One thing is very clear. Your idea of common sense and common decency is very different than mine.
Booing God = persecution? Tell me who’s easily offended now.
Let me ask you something, my dear Christian. Do you think Jesus cares which bathroom you use?
Do I believe booing God in itself is persecution? Personally, I’m not so offended by that. That was included in the response as part of the overall attack on Judeo-Christian values and moral precepts. Do you believe booing transgenders (which I don’t condone), is derogatory, condemning, felt as persecution, or hate speech? Don’t know about you, but my guess in transgenders would be deeply hurt and offended by it. I think it’s highly uncalled for. I think they should be loved unconditionally.
Does Jesus care what bathroom someone uses? If it’s a man in a women’s restroom, or visa versa where privacy is violated, people are offended by it, and concerned about their safety, or a school locker room with people concerned for the same reasons — in a nation with an ever growing population of sexual perverts, rapists, voyeurs, etc? Absolutely!
So what is it you’re offended by? Is it the people who oppose lawmakers pushing Christians values on them? Is it people who believe in a different God? Is it people who believe in no god?
Here’s the bottom line: this nation was founded upon the idea of religious freedom. It has no national region. This is not a Christian nation. It is a melting pot of people of all nationalities and religious affiliations. Not all people hold the same values as you do. When those people push back because they don’t want your values forced upon them it is not persecution.
Your family values are not the same as mine, and that’s okay. God has no place in the classroom. No god does. And that’s okay. If you want your child to learn about God send him/her to Catholic school, church, or teach him/her yourself. That’s okay. We are all different and, guess what, that’s okay.
Your religion is not under attack. People are just sick and tired of having it forced down their throats.
Hey Pal Madden, maybe they did an episode of this on West Wing, that show put on by the “liberal Hollywood trash” that you just called brilliant TV on your Facebook! You are quite a piece of work. You sure talk a good game about how Christians are all about the morals as you go on about how awesome of a TV show the West Wing was that literally celebrated a deceptive, drug-taking, abortion-supporting, President. Incredible.
Paul Newman Cabernet Sauvignon, Rocky Patel Edge 6 x 50, (cigar), and Sunday evening binge watching West Wing on Netflix. Liberally driven, but brilliantly written, and the acting is very good.
Took a break, and thought this conversation could use some levity. Selah…
Right, so you support a show about a drug-taking, deceptive, abortion-supporting President while you trash Hollywood for bullying Christians. Fascinating.
Emily: Bravo. Thank you. Pal: The victim complex of the extreme Christian right is startling. Professors and tv shows and music? Those are the things you’re scared of? Try being a minority. Try being a woman who waits tables at a bar and gets groped. Try being a woman or girl or boy in Africa who gets raped by Boko Haram. Try being almost any other group other than white Christian. The things you are scared of? Those are in themselves evidence of your privilege. Real persecution is happening all over this world. If persecution truly bothers you, you may want to step outside of your bubble and look at people who are truly suffering.
ps: I’m a Christian too.
This. This. This.
I see. You’re all up in a tizzy because over a million have joined together to boycott a company stepping all over the privacy rights of American citizens. But, you carry no anger toward the Hollywood elites, the secular sexed up tv shows with abusive, foul, grossly profane language unheard of twenty years on TV, but now fill the airwaves. Programs that consistently mock God, and Christianity. Or, the music spewing hatred, sexual perversion, rape, killing police officers. etc. These are the things destroying the moral fabric of this nation. Where’s your anger and indignation over these things? Does it not exist, or is the only kind of thing getting your panties bunched up is transgenders who can’t pee in an opposite sex restroom? God help us! Your silence of things that really matter is DEAFENING!
Further, you say you are a Christian. Question: When you hear the words sin, repentance, and righteousness how does it strike you? If those words don’t mean anything to you, or carry little weight with you then it’s apparent your Christianity is one of two things – enormously diluted, or non-existent.
Thank you for completely and totally missing the entire point of her essay, and in the process, totally and completely affirming her point.
Jesus wept, buddy, you self righteous whitewashed tomb.
You’re so courageous you reply anonymously.
You legit sound brainwashed Pal. You sound like someone from a cult. Oh wait, you are.
I love how this guy is having such a temper tantrum about Hollywood while in the very same hour, is on his Facebook talking about how much he loves the West Wing on a public post. It’s amazing! But isn’t that just like a conservative christian these days, on one side of his mouth, he complains about the “filth” of Hollywood while putting money in the very pockets of the people that create it. No integrity. And I’m sure what will be next s “Hey, I’m just human!”
The compartmentalization is stunning. I needed that laugh!
Their cognitive dissonance is hilarious.
Pal, do you mean the “godless shows” like the West Wing that ripped Dr. Laura a new one and made it a point to attack the institutionalized Christianity that was shaming and condemning this nation, just like you’re trying to do now to this brave and lovely woman who had the courage to call you to accountability? The level of disconnect you seem to have regarding your own rage, defensiveness and hypocrisy is almost frightening.
I cannot tell you what a breath of fresh air you are as a Christian, Gretchen Kelly. And it ‘s not just your stance on this particular issue, it’s being so aware of the privilege Christians have in this country, so responsible with it and calling your brother here into accountability about who is really vulnerable. From the bottom of my heart, I’m grateful.
“The attack”? Wow, how melodramatic can you get? That’s silly.
A lot of US citizens are feeling more comfortable addressing the harm that the Christian community has done – I’m sure inadvertently due to their own fear, need to control, or whatever the motivation – and they’re saying so. When did you all develop such a massive persecution complex? You’ve enjoyed the majority of opinion and morality being solidly in your corner for hundreds of years, Christians have shut down the minority view point (let’s all be mindful that you’re still a massive majority in this country though you’re losing people in droves) for decades. Now your fellow citizens are actually speaking up and calling you into some accountability to actually *live* the words that Christ spoke about so beautifully – we’re being honest with you about the harm you’ve done and continue to do to gay kids and the rest of the GLBT community – and you actually believe that honesty is you being “attacked”? I don’t know any other way of saying this, but it’s one of the most self-absorbed things I’ve ever witnessed. You’re now terrified that you’re losing the privilege that you’ve enjoyed in actually defining the country’s narrative and you’re actually twisting that into an attack. It’s the most narcissistic thing I’ve ever watched.
Here are the facts. You’re not being attacked, people are being honest with you. We’re actually focused on protecting the minority which is what our Constitution actually does – protects the smaller groups of people who don’t have a voice. As much as you might feel upset that people are angry with you? You’re certainly not the minority in this country, Christians run the government and most of the institutions in America. You have massive amount of power.
Here’s what’s happening. People are now comfortable in expressing how angry they are with you. The Christian church has hurt them. When you represent yourself as Christian? You sign up for all of it. There’s been absolutely nothing done with the sexual abuse that is shut up and hidden by those of you who continue to say “But I’m one of the good Christians!” because you still go to church every Sunday and put money into the pockets of those in power who continue to hide these abusers, both protestant and catholic it doesn’t matter. People are saying, “Hey you know what? Your morals aren’t my own, you don’t get a lock on the country anymore, I’m going to say what I like regardless if you find me repugnant or not” (Christians love to preach on how disgusting everyone else is, how we’re all ruining marriage for example while you all enjoy a 54% divorce rate according to Christianity today). We’re just being honest. You hurt people, people we love, and we have to protect them from you. Our country needs protection from Christians and a lot of us are emboldened by our love for our country and our citizens and we’ve found the courage to actually stand up against you. So deal with it, engage on terms you no longer get to dictate, or don’t. It’s up to you.
If we had let public policy rule the country, we would still have separate schools for blacks and whites, separate bathrooms, and guess who would still be sitting on the back of the bus. If we let public policy rule out laws, women wouldn’t be allowed to vote. No, public opinion isn’t the way to go. And, this is about Christian-rights. This started off as Marriage Equality. Christians lost. Now this. Let me put it this way. “One man and one woman” is a Christian thing. Yes, some other religions believe that too, but there are religions that believe a man can have many wives. No, the fight was one man and one woman – that is Christian-rights, not religious-rights. It’s funny how people don’t want the government getting involved in their religion, but they want the government to be run based on their religious beliefs. I’m not Christian. Why do I have to live my life by your beliefs? I’m a Veteran, why should I expect equality for all regardless of what they have between their legs considering I put my life on the line to defend it? If you are so worried about your daughters in the bathroom, why aren’t you in there with them? You’re so worried about a pedophile entering the woman’s bathroom and assaulting your daughter, but you have no problem with that same pedophile in the bathroom with your son. Consistency, that’s all I’m looking for. You want to pull the religion card? Only God has the power to judge, not you. Your actions are anti-Christian. I’m a straight man with a daughter, and a someone who is transgender using the same bathroom as her is the last thing on my mind. Yes, Christians are attempting to force their beliefs on everybody else. And if you think they aren’t, well, homosexuals and transgender men and women aren’t going door to door trying to convert you, that’s a Christian thing. If you are uncomfortable using the bathroom with someone who is transgender, you are more than welcome to use a single occupancy bathroom. Why should they be forced into segregation because you feel uncomfortable. I’m uncomfortable when you say you are praying for me, I don’t see them creating a law banning that. [And as and FYI, I’m not turning on notifications to alert me when you want to argue, I don’t argue with small minded bigots so your responses will go unanswered.]
You may not see this, Michael, but thank you. Perfectly said.
Speaker Hassert is not going to prison for molesting young boys. He is going to prison for money laundering when he paid off a victim. Therein lies the problem. Statutes of limitations prevent prosecution after a certain number of years. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WE SHOULD BE ANGRY ABOUT. Not imaginary problems that are not problems.
Sexual assaults stemming from the pro-transgender law “not even remotely a problem”- Minneapolis Police Spokesperson
No problem since passage of 2011 law- Las Vegas Police
No increase in sex crimes due to 2001 law- Exec. Dir. Rhode Island Commission for Human Rights
There’s more, but you get the point. Here’s an article that goes into more detail: http://mic.com/articles/114066/statistics-show-exactly-how-many-times-trans-people-have-attacked-you-in-bathrooms#.AOKO8GKp7
By the way, for the sake of common decency – as you put it- what about that .003%? What about them? Let’s allow them to be harassed and unable to use public restrooms? Who cares about them and the very real threat that they face, right? Let’s make up some spurious claims of imaginary dangers. Trans people face abuse and assault on a startling basis. And yes, in public restrooms. There is actual evidence of this. I can tell you right now, as a mother of three children who is also a victim of child sex abuse (that did not happen in a public restroom by the way) my rights are not being violated. Not in the least. FACTS. They are your friend.
“FACTS. They are your friends.” Chicago Tribune: “Technically, he’s going to the joint on the bank charge because the statute of limitations has expired on the abuse allegations. But U.S. District Judge Thomas M. Durkin made it clear he did not sentence Hastert with prison time primarily for crimes against the financial system. He is being punished for cruel depravity.”
Also, the fact that transgenders represent such an infinitesimally small percentage of the population is exactly why it’s not recorded as a major problem. It’s hard to trace.
Further, I have not pointed to transgenders as the one committing sex crimes. You brought that up. My focus was on the right of privacy, right of protection, and a right to common decency desired by the vast majority of American citizens. A right you feel should be superseded by the .003% of the population who want to place their “rights” above the privacy rights of others. Because they can’t pee in the same restroom with those of the same anatomy? This is out of a comic book.
Your “comic book” reference speaks volumes. Either you view a portion of the population (real human beings by the way) as a joke because they want to be treated with dignity and have a measure of safety, or you really don’t understand what transgender is and what they really go through. Honestly, I think lack of understanding is a large part of the problem. And I don’t mean that in a snarky way. I think for most people, transgender is still a new concept. I know I understand much more about it now than I did a few years ago. And that’s because more people are coming out and being open about being transgender and sharing their experiences with the rest of us. These people are brave. I have read more and have met some transgender, transitioning people through blogging, so I see what they are going through. A ProTrans bathroom policy does not discriminate against me. Or you. But without it? Trans people are being discriminated against. This is a civil rights issue. We have to look at the facts. This does not put you or me or my kids in any danger in public restrooms.
As to the District Court’s comments… just how much time do you think a serial child molester should serve? 15 months? Is that sufficient? Because if you truly were concerned about women and children you would be LIVID that this monster is only getting 15 months for heinous crimes. Crimes that ruined children’s lives. So, it’s very nice for the judge to say that he is punishing Hassert for the serial molesting, but that’s a joke. 15 months is a JOKE. Do you see what I’m saying? This is an actual thing that happened and no one is signing petitions to change the statute of limitations so that monsters like Hassert can be prosecuted and sufficiently punished for what they did to the CHILDREN that all of these boycotters claim to be so worried about.
Privacy is what stalls are for. Don’t they have them in your bathrooms?
Pal, unfortunately for you, people are beginning to look for moral guidance outside of religion as of late, and particularly, outside of the religions of Abraham- who have largely embraced many things that the rest of us find immoral and unethical. We don’t embrace a religion as a guidepost for ethical behavior when it embraces slavery, misogyny, rape, stoning, ritual human and animal sacrifice… just to name a few. Oh wait, “We largely ignore the old testament” many Christians say. Well, I guess your arguments against homosexuality and pre-marital sex are null and void then, since Jesus never addressed them and the New Testament never outlaws them. In fact, never anywhere does the bible outlaw pre-marital sex, so according to your religion it’s perfectly okay for people to experiment before marriage. (http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/blog-home/premarital-sex-is-it-a-sin-or-not) “Even Solomon, a great prophet of the Bible who was said to be favored by God had seven hundred princesses and three hundred concubines. The Bible shows that polygamy, rape, incest, and orgies were not only accepted, but were often rewarded by God and were common practice of “great men of the Bible,” none of whom were ever spoken out against in the Bible. Christ’s teachings at the Sermon on the Mount were that the only law is the law of love. He showed this by reversing four of the Old Testament laws which conflicted with loving people. Therefore, anything that was unkind, not by mutual consent, etc. would be immoral for a Christian, but obviously it would not be immoral to love sexuality before marriage or because of different but natural sexual orientation.” Most of the issues you speak out against, citing their adoption into mainstream society as an attack on Christians, aren’t even outlawed per the bible unless words are mistranslated and passages cherry-picked.
The reason people are booing Christianity is because they see that the most vocal Christians (who, unfortunately have given the religion such a bad rap that even progressive and loving Christians are often looped into the “hypocrite” title), are using their religion as an excuse to push a system of morality that is illogical and not founded in the reduction of suffering.
True morality, as many people are embracing today, is the reduction of suffering for all. This means that we have a problem with rape (which is condoned in the bible), and we have a problem with the hatred, judgement, and persecution of people for making decisions about the way they will live their OWN life and for using their personal liberties which we have fought to protect. We want equality (both civil rights and to end economic disparity) for ALL. We see that the puritan work ethic that bred capitalism and which embraces the notion that the poor must be lazy and therefore deserve their suffering is a flawed viewpoint and thus believe that it’s immoral to speak out and call the poor who need help “welfare queens”.
In fact, when equality, love and kindness, ending suffering, and ending war/violence are primary focuses in your moral framework- you see that many Christians are severely misguided.
Some come to ridicule and discount the entire religion- thus the booing. I was raised as a Christian and left the religion many years later, however I know and love many progressive Christians- but the most important thing to me (in order for a Christian to be credible) is that they have reconciled their faith with a humanist view of morality and embrace consistency (as does this post.) If we have a problem with “sexual deviance” and “perversions” as you refer to them- we would be FAR more outraged by our rape culture than we are by homosexuality. Two homosexuals engage in sex acts consensually- and you are more offended than by a frat bro raping an unconscious girl at a party. When that’s the case- how dare you stand on a soap box and say that you’re against sexual perversions when what you’re really against is your discomfort at the idea a person deciding on their own sexual identity or a person deciding to love a person of the same gender.
What is so wildly ironic about your comment is that 54% of Christians get divorced which is 2% higher than the national average and a massive percentage of people who are abused as children experience it from their pastors. You’re so persecuted! What you fail to remember is that you are the majority in our country, so if you have an issue with the Kardashians? Turn off the channel dear, it’s the christians in America who are keeping it all going.
This gave me goosebumps, and made me want to cry, all at the same time.
Thank you <3
Beautiful, my friend. 🙂
So are you, my friend <3 Thank you.
Yes. Just yes.
Thank you Shawna.
Thank you and Amen! Misplaced fear and definitely a clear laziness for critical thought are at work with these “protesting voices”. Glad you published this.
Thank you so much Joy! And I think there is definitely an element of some people who get their news and information from sources that are not truly credible, organizations that have used fear tactics many times.
Gretchen, this is mindblowingly wonderful and should be read far and wide. Thank you for your powerful voice.
Thank you so much Emily <3
Thank you.
Thank YOU.
I’m standing and applauding you! Because yeah, where were they when college students are being assaulted and their schools do nothing? (I just watched The Hunting Grounds, and it turned my stomach and made me glad my own daughter has already graduated, unscathed.) Where are they when female sportswriters get horrendous and violent tweets sent out into the cybersphere because they dare to work in what is perceived as a “man’s” field? Yes, where they hell are they? Because one thing I took away from Human Sexuality in college is that true sexual deviance is about 98% the purview of the straight, white, man. Probably the same one who doesn’t want to use a restroom with a trans-gendered male. I want to scream at them, Well cupcake, I’ve got news for you: you probably already have, and you came away from it just fine.
Thank you so much. Yes, we’ve all been using the public restrooms with transgender people all along. It seems to me (what I gather from the few who I know who are transitioning) is that there is some anxiety as to whether you will “pass” as your gender. There is sometimes ambiguity. And for those people having to enter the men’s restroom must be incredibly scary. As you state, sexual deviance is more aligned with straight white males (This is NOT misandry for those who may be reading this. This is based on studies) and trans people have incredibly high rates of being assaulted and killed by straight men. For them, going into the wrong restroom truly can be scary and dangerous. Then we had the case a few days ago,of a woman being forced to leave the ladies room in N.C. because the police did not believe she was a woman, even though her friends were vouching for her (<<how ridiculous that I even had to write that. Her friends vouched for her sexual identity.)
And the video going around of a self-appointed bathroom monitor going after a woman because she didn’t look sufficiently feminine to him. He’s condescendingly says, multiple times, “You’re dressed like a MAN.” The poor woman was in her doctor’s building getting her broken hand attended to; she likely has trouble dressing! But that is the kind of thing I am terribly afraid is going to soon escalate into violence.
Wow. I can say little more, other than I wholeheartedly agree with everything you’re saying. And said so very well. Thank you, thank you.
Thank you Kimberly!
You are so right!!
Niek.
2016-04-29 16:35 GMT+02:00 Drifting Through My Open Mind :
> Gretchen Kelly posted: ” I hear you. You’re angry. I get it, I’m angry > too. I’m not talking to the people who are angry at Target because their > Pro Transgender bathroom policy flies in the face of their cherry picked > moral compass. I’m not under any obligation to respect th” >
Thank you Niek!
Absolutely brilliant and my sentiments exactly. Xxxx
Sent from my iPad
>
Thank you Helen!
This is brilliant and fantastic and makes me angry and sad that it is so necessary and true. Thank you.
Yes. It makes me angry and a little bit sad too. Well, mostly angry. Thank you Fiona.
This. This is just fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much for writing it.
Kai (@KaisLifeInWords) from
Kai’s Life in Words
Non-Binary Trans Person who just wants to piss in peace and believes everyone should have the same ability.
Amen. It is ridiculous that anyone even thinks this is an issue. Transgender people are already using the bathrooms of the sex that they identify with. It’s the ones that are not that are being abused and even raped. I am more afraid of a white man in a suit than of a transgender man who dresses as a woman.
I completely agree Jennifer. You are absolutely right. The transgender people who are forced to use the wrong restroom are the ones who are in a real, factual, it’s actually happened many times over, danger. As opposed to the fake made up threat.
Thank you Kai. Your last sentence is brilliant and has me chuckling. Maybe we should all have a tag line that reads “(fill in the blank) who just wants to piss in peace and believes everyone should have the same ability.”
Silence is an act of violence, too
Yes. What I teach my kids is, if you see something bad happening to someone and you do nothing about it (step in, go get help, speak out, etc) then you are complicit to a certain extent.
I adore you.
I don’t know who you are, but if I did, I’m sure I would feel the same. <3
This issue is so heartbreaking and there are truly some of us who disagree with both extreme sides but are getting labeled fear mongers unless you “believe what I believe-or else!”. See I don’t want people to be hurt, be bullied, or have their safety in question!!!! But as you believe people are “hiding” behind so called new activism I would say others hide their BELIEFS behind a tolerance flag. True tolerance means “the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with:” How many people really can do that? That would mean someone would go to a Trump rally and then hop over to a Clinton rally (I don’t wish to go to either to be honest!) Just because I believe this could be the wrong way to handle this issue (for a lot of reasons) doesn’t make me a bad person or someone hiding behind prejudice or “new found activism”….it just makes me a person with a different opinion praying an answer can be found together.
Deborah, I assure you that I would never attack someone for having a different opinion than me. (I’m a progressive person who’s grown up in the conservative south so I have spent a life time of understanding differences of opinions) This is not me taking issue with opinions. I’m taking issue with the fact that a large group of people are being fed lies about the dangers involved in the pro-transgender bathroom policies. Transgender people are the ones who are being discriminated against. Period. It’s really that simple. If Target allows Transgender people to use the bathroom they identify with, I am NOT being discriminated against. People used to be scared of sharing bathrooms and public spaces with black people. Those fears were rooted in fallacies and racism and hate. I WILL speak up when a group is being discriminated against. Believe me, I was extremely nervous to publish this. I realize I may offend people I know in real life. I could possibly lose friends over writing this. But the fear that’s being passed around is not based in fact and it is only serving to feed a narrative that paints a group of people as “other.” Even if you don’t buy into that, even if you have no problem with transgender people, if you are buying into the fear campaign (again, not based in facts) then you are inadvertently and I’m sure unwillingly contributing to that narrative. This is a civil rights issue. Plain and simple.
Something about human nature… we don’t seem to care about injustices when they’re clearly societal – that reflects poorly on us – but if we can blame it all on an out group? Excellent! Like the outpouring of outrage over rape culture after the new year’s assaults in Germany. Sure, the problem existed long before, and it still exists right now, but, at that one shining moment, it could all be blamed on Muslims, and so everyone cared. And if you protested anything about that, you were the one who was a rape apologist according to them. But as soon as life returns to normal, nobody gives a shit.
We have had and do have issues surrounding safety and privacy in public bathrooms. But that the person in the stall next to you might be trans really doesn’t seem to be one, and I really don’t understand how the proposed solution helps anyone. Forcing women into the men’s room, and men into the women’s room in the name of keeping predators out of our bathrooms makes no sense – trans is not latin for “predator”; it’s latin for “across,” and it implies nothing about the temperament or intentions of the people to whom it applies. The only problem it seems designed to solve is the problem of life not already being hard enough for trans people.
Wow. Yes. So much, yes. There have been zero incidences reported of trans people committing any aggressive acts in public restrooms. But there have been many of trans people being harassed and hurt in public restrooms when forced to go into the wrong restroom.
Sigh… the human nature thing you mention? I think some people don’t care until they think it’s going to affect them. Rape? Young black boys being shot? Crickets. But make them use a public restroom with transgender people and possibly (not really) expose them to predators parading as transgender? All hell breaks loose. It’s lack of empathy. Only caring about yours and those you can identify with.
Reblogged this on Daily Muse and commented:
People are fired up about this topic and this article is worth a re-blog. There is a whole lot of fear mongering going on and it has to stop. Thank you Gretchen Kelly!
When the HOT topic in the news is who gets to pee in whose bathroom overshadows (and almost deletes entirely) the story about our elected, longstanding, Speaker of the House admitting to and getting indicted for being child molester I’m concerned.
It’s time to wake up and step up for those who need a voice. Who cares who is in the public bathroom? Transgender people have been shamed enough. They are simply trying to live their lives being who they are instead of living a lie. They are brave and courageous and all they want is to lead their lives. I will always lend a hand and stand up for those who are working to find themselves.
I embrace diversity (all kinds including lifestyle) in this world and hold dear those who are shedding the constrains our society has placed upon them.
Speak up and give a voice to rape victims. Speak up and give a voice to abused women and men. Speak up for what is right and just but for heaven’s sake get over the self-righteous and very unfounded fear.
Thank you so much for reblogging this! Your last two paragraphs say it all. Embracing diversity and lifting up the people in this world who are breaking free from society’s constraints… those people are badasses. Brave and paving the way for people to be ever more comfortable being who it is they truly are.
You’re welcome, my pleasure and thank you! 🙂
Reblogged this on Reading, Drinking and Dancing with a Chaser of Snark and commented:
Amen! I could not have stated it better.
Be nice, or be quiet.
Thank you Michelle!
Reblogged this on The Haunted Librarian and commented:
I try to keep politics off of my site. However, I’m concerned hate is becoming the “religious” norm, especially against the paranormal community (more on that topic in June).
We could not possibly complain picket protest etc about every issue out there we would therefore not have time for anything else like work pay the bills raise our children etc
We protest upon those things that touch us
Touch our family and friends and hopefully those type of issues never touch you
A husband A father will not sit by idol and watch a guy follow his wife or daughter into the ladies room
And please…enlighten me…as a woman how will I know if the guy following me into the ladies room is a transgender or a predator?
I await your response…😉
If the woman following you into the bathroom was born a male, and is now transgender, then in the first place the husband or father is unlikely to know, and in the second place neither are you.
I am curious to know why you don’t feel it necessary to ask the very definitely male person who follows your small son into the bathroom if he is a Catholic priest, a college football coach, or a Republican Congressional Representative – all of which categories should worry you far more than a transgender woman in your restroom.
Reblogged this on Darke Conteur and commented:
I love this.
Reblogged this on L. Anne Carrington and commented:
This is perhaps one of the best blog posts I’ve read on the whole Target restroom debacle. Some excellent points made on it will make us think.
Would love to repost this, but I don’t think people will read something this long. Could you give us a shorter version? Please? So I can share?
Sigh… you are asking me to do the thing I’m the worst at. My writing achilles heel is length. While length is good for SEO I know it isn’t always inviting to readers. If I have time to edit it down and make it still true to what I’m wanting to say, I will let you know. If it gets put on HuffPost or another site they will likely edit it for length. I do appreciate you wanting to share…
Wow. I love this post. What a tremendous answer to the silent brigade. I agree with you about them. There are bad people doing things to women and children everywhere and in every office or form of office. From the top to the bottom. Great post. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you for saying what needs to be said. Thank you for stating it so clearly, so unequivocally. Thank you.
Thank you!
Gretchen – is this sentence accurate:
I’m talking to you… the people who have no issue with sharing a bathroom with LGBT people.
Or do you mean the people who DO have an issue sharing a bathroom? I’m a little confused by it and wonder if it a typo?
No, not a typo. My post was directed at people who appear to be genuinely concerned about predators taking advantage of the law to prey on women and children. I think that there are a large number of the boycotters who have no issue with LGBT, but are truly fearful of a straight man dressing up or entering the women’s restroom, emboldened by this law. I’m going to look it over and see if I can make that more clear. I hate ambiguity in my writing! I sometimes am so caught up in writing something that I don’t adequately explain some things.
I am looking for your email address so that I can send you a formal response that you are begging for in your blog. I find it ironic that you want to hear from those of us who are considering boycotting Target but don’t give your email address to do so? Thanks! Josh
I am a blogger. I’m not a pen pal. Your response is fine to post here. I accept comments and only delete them if they are abusive or hateful to other commenters. Your response would be public.
You just begged me to reply in your blog. Why would you hide from a well-written response?
I am inviting you to respond here. Just as everyone else is. You will see that most of us don’t shy away from lengthy responses.
Just to explain the way blogging works: we don’t give out personal information to readers. We are under no obligation to do so. We don’t even have to use our real name or photograph. We can be anonymous. It’s kind of a thing. I’m not sure why you are adverse to typing your response here, but it’s starting to look suspicious to me that you want to communicate privately. And actually kind of creepy. (maybe you should check out my blog post I linked up there, about women and the internet. It’s the hyperlink where I typed “women threatened online.”)
Also, you may want to brush up on the meaning of irony.
Cheers.
Do you understand the nature of a blog? You post in public, how creepy to demand someone’s email address. Ugh.
What a fabulous blog post! As the Quaker elders in my monthly meeting say when there is nothing left to say on a subject, “That Friend has spoken for me.” And for all the women and children endangered by those who look the other way when they are victimized. Thanks!
White male outrage? I’d say white and black. Thanks.
“Sex offenders are most likely to be white and in their early 30’s” – Sex Offenses and Offenders: An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault, by Lawrence Greenfield. I’m not making this up. I have no reason to. These are statistics. As the mother of a white male and a woman married to a white male I take no joy in these statistics. As a young girl who was abused by a white male I take no joy in these facts.
I was raised in a Lutheran Church. Nothing about my moral compass is cherry picked. Grouping everyone into the same category is always dangerous. My moral compass aligns with my Christian beliefs.
About .2 to .3 percent of the population considers themselves as transgender or about 700,000. And a significant amount of them are psychotic. So by allowing these people into the Target bathrooms, there may not be in an increase in assaults yet, but given more opportunities to do so, chances are the assaults will go up.
I AM concerned about the safety of our woman and children and always will be. Back in college, I knew I wanted to be an author and so I asked God to provide insight on what to write about. It was at the same time, that yahoo chat became popular. One girl after another that I met on there were victims of abuse… Either physical or verbal abuse. I didn’t run away from where God was pointing me to.
The abused women were all going through similar patterns of behavior. There was one girl who even gave me a detailed description of her own rape. I didn’t realize it at the time, but she NEEDED me to listen. I willfully and gladly did so because my father who was a Pastor drilled in me from day one how important it is to care about others.
I didn’t run from my newfound responsibility. Instead I wrote a novel called The Merry-Go-Round and made a movie called Gehenna. They both go into great detail about the horrors of living under the constant control of their supposed loving husbands and boyfriends. I wrote this to show these women that they aren’t alone and there is a way out of this man-made hell on earth. I have had other women who have read my novel come up to me with details of the exact same things happening to them. I gave them all the advice I could and made sure they understood just how damn important they really are since rebuilding their insanely low self esteem is always job one.
I’d be happy to sign the petitions about those other political things you mention. Please provide them for me and I will do so right away and I consider myself moderately conservative.
I would only follow an athlete again if said athlete comes out and repeatedly asks for forgiveness for his selfish ways. Otherwise, no, I don’t keep following them.
To be fair, I’m assuming you have come out against women violence on men? Otherwise you’d be a bit hypocritical in your argument.
The entire sentencing in America doesn’t make any sense and no one cares until there’s a public uproar. Maybe you weren’t following me on Facebook when I took the side of most men in this country when the NFL came out and announced that Ray Rice (running back for the Ravens) got a two game suspension for abusing his wife. It wasn’t until TMZ showed what really happened in the elevator that the NFL panicked and announced, “well maybe we didn’t know all the details” which was a lie. Men led outrage got the NFL to implement new policies for domestic abuse because of this.
The majority of the homeless women are crazy and therefore incapable of making sane decisions. I’d be in favor of more housing for the homeless, but again you neglect to add the men in there, too.
I don’t know anymore of the details of the child being killed after playing with a gun. So I can’t intelligently offer my opinion on the case without first doing a lot more digging.
I think you need to be careful lumping all people in the category of boycotting Target with people who rolled their eyes at you for rape. It’s insanely unfair. And makes people want to associate the two and therefore you are going to get people on your side because of course no one should roll their eyes at rape. And you making your readers believe that those who are boycotting target are in fact the same people who don’t care about rape. I would never roll my eyes at rape. I can’t think of one person who has my same moral compass who would.
All women have to do for men to stop viewing women as commodities is asking each one of those women who have taken a check to do any low-cut blouse or short skirt modeling gig to stop it. Just stop taking those easy checks already! Society will adjust to finding another way to sell just about all their products.
I care about all people, too, as well as those women and children in Target bathrooms. Target clearly does not. They only care about appeasing the liberals.
I am well aware of other predators. I do not go to Catholic churches because they refuse to allow Priests to marry wives. Thus breeding a safe-haven for men who don’t have any interest in women to be their priests and the results have been disastrous.
Josh
If you’re curious as to where you went off the rails, and devolved into hateful babble which no one will bother to read? It was at the sixth sentence: “And a significant amount of them are psychotic.”
Next!
Bingo!! I stopped reading right there. 🙂
then you clearly didn’t do the time to do your own research which i did. There is nothing hateful about telling the truth.
then you clearly didn’t do the time to do your own research which i did. There is nothing hateful about telling the truth.
Shush, Joshua…the adults are talking.
I don’t consider anyone who is incapable of hearing both sides of argument an adult. You stopped reading because you are the reason liberal TV shows are so popular because no one wants to have honest and heartfelt debates on the topics. I felt like I was being attacked for my position so I replied. You barely got into six sentence of my reply and couldn’t take it anymore. We both know which one of us needs to grow up and it’s clearly not me. I never run from a debate. You clearly do.
Yawn. Six sentences in you said something irredeemably ignorant, patently untrue and deliberately hateful.
Most people outgrow that. Let us know when you do, and then we’ll have a debate. Until then, hush up and listen to the adults — you might learn something.
Except your respect went out the window when you were badgering and harassing the woman who runs this blog for her email address so you can send her a “private” message. Wow.
Didn’t even notice that, drisnf! Yeesh, what a creep. Respect drops from zero to about negative six thousand…
I work with a transgendered man. He looks in every way a man. Beard, mustache, muscles from working out. He’s had the surgery, so now he can pee standing up. Why would any protesting parent want this guy walking into the women’s bathroom because some idiot legislators passed a law saying he HAS to because of his DNA??? They wouldn’t be able to have him arrested. Afterall, he’d just be following the law. This is the flip side to the issue these morons have in getting these laws passed.
I’m not trying to be mean in saying this, but, as a guy, the last person I want to see walk through the men’s room door is Caitlyn Jenner.
Well said!!! I appreciate you for what you’re saying. This letter made me think and wonder if I did what you said? I don’t think I did, but, I will try harder to be as vocal as you.
Well put, Ms. Kelly. I like what David Phelps said above — we should all try harder to be as vocal (and as compassionate and fair-minded!) as you on issues that matter.
This is the first thing I’ve actually felt compelled to share on the subject. Spot on! 🙌🏼
Absolutely “wow” – excellently said! Every … last.. bit… of… it!!! Sharing!!! Thank you for saying so well what many of us have been thinking, but couldn’t find the words! <3
There’s a lot on this blog post about fear, but no mention of how transgender people feel. If you have seven minutes to spare, listen to this transgender person taking on radio about using toilets: http://www.awayofseeing.net/talking-toilets-on-lbc
So you ask people what they have done in the face of all those things, but what my dear author have you done for all those things? Where were you when I was taped? Oh yeah probably on your computer typing this letter… Just because you don’t see people on Facebook speaking against it doesn’t mean they aren’t. This letter was ridiculous. I too am outraged at all those things either and I speak my mind and sign petitions on other issues too. I still don’t like targets policy simply because it’s opening a door to sexual deviants and not talking about the lgbt trans community either. Predators are predators and anyone can site stats from anywhere. So pardon me if I don’t pat you on the back for this letter. Because I am obviously not alone as many have signed the petition as well. You are entitied to your opinion but I would loved a detailed report on what you personally did for all those things that you listed. I’m sorry.. What? You don’t have a detailed list? Now whose silence is deafening? Thank you.
This should be required reading.
Thank you. I have specifically limited my time on Facebook because I didn’t want to read Target and Transgender bathroom debates. Most people don’t realize this is about more than bathrooms. Thank you for stating why in such an eloquent manner.
I have these days when I self identify, and feel like an animal. Sometimes it’s a cat, deer, dog, fox – i never know. I call myself a ‘transanimal’, and my transanimal name is Red Rover. If I show up in front of your house, drop my pants, and relieve myself of all human waste please don’t be offended, or call me out for it. Instead, come running out, and give me a hug along with a bowl full of some good scraps from your dinner the night before.
If transanimals like me grow in number, and someone tries to keep us from doing our business on green, grassy front lawns of peoples homes, please get a city ordinance passed that protects transanimals from cruel treatment. We’re really not crazy, nor are we struggling with any sort of psychosis. We just identify, and think we’re animals that’s all. We’re looking forward to when we can have certain body parts replaced with animal parts. For me I’m hoping for dog parts, and the day I can howl at the moon, or the siren on the ambulance driving past.
For all transanimals out there — thank you for caring.
Just want to put the out there buddy, like any other animal that’s wild that poops in my yard I’m calling animal control. The point where you lost that argument is when you said in front of my house. I normally don’t invite people over to use my restroom ( young or old male or female gay or straight). As I’m pretty sure you don’t invite individuals to your home to use your restroom.
I’m not a big, or even small, basketball fan, but that is a 3 Pointer from under to other basket, with a swish. Its relly hard to add anything but – reblogging
Thank you so much Bob!
You’re very welcome. You certainly started a conversation, not all of it pleasant – so much ignorance, knee jerk reactions, and lack of understanding, but support and amplification too.
Thank you Gretchen for putting my raging thoughts into words. Abuse in Bathrooms by transgendered individuals is a made up issue just like voter fraud has been. But when there are REAL proven issues, it falls on deaf ears.
Reblogged this on cabbagesandkings524 and commented:
Awesome
And how do you know we weren’t livid about these things?
Because it wasn’t blasted over social media and news.
If you think it was not blasted by the news you were not listening to the right news stations! All of the mentioned things were heinous; all sicken me. But whether the silence is real or merely perceived does not mean we should continue down the wrong path.
The solution is so simple. Keep men’s and women’s washrooms separate and also have a multi- gender washroom similar to the family washroom that already exists.
“separate but equal”, just like in the movie ‘the help’, when the black maids were given their own toilet because ‘they’re gonna harm our babies with their diseases.’ simpler solution: let trans people pee without being forcibly outted by “multi-gender” bathrooms.
Why can’t Trans gender people use the family bathrooms. I have an uncle who has downs and when he is with me he uses the family bathroom.
Because being transgender is not the same as Down Syndrome. Seriously? When a transgender woman wants to use the restroom, she is welcome to be in the women’s room with me because she is a WOMAN. I’m not scared of her, I’m scared of men. THAT is rape culture. Why should she have to use a special marked restroom??
If someone is uncomfortable about the possibility of sharing a restroom with a transgender woman (or a cisgender male sexual predator who is already doing something illegal and is not going to be stopped by stick figure in a dress or a law targeting transgender people) then she should use the family bathrooms. Except … good luck finding one of those everywhere you travel in life. They’re not everywhere.
No, they’re not; but that isn’t a half bad idea.
Let me make clear that I agree with every word Gretchen wrote. As far as I’m concerned, women are those who tell me they are women; men as those who tell me they are men; and where either one of them pees is not my business so long as it isn’t on the carpet. What I’m thinking of is a strategic approach to shift the momentum of the concern trolls. The unspoken assumption has been that the people who find another place to pee are those who are marginalized. I want to turn that on its head. I want to act as though, every single time I hear anyone clucking about how they’re only worried about the chiiiilllldreeeen, what they’ve just admitted to is a phobia which will sadly prevent them and their offspring from using most public bathrooms.
To that, specifically, I can cluck in sympathy and explain, “I’m sorry your fear of the other people in public restrooms is making things so hard on you. Have you considered anti-anxiety medication? Oh? Well, if that wouldn’t help, what about those individual, family-sized bathrooms some places have for people with small kids or others who just need a little help one way or another… would those do for you? They have a private lock and everything, with only one family inside at a time. I’ve seen them at a lot of places — even a couple of the big airports, now! What’s that? Most places still don’t have them? Oh, I suppose you’re right; I guess that must be pretty hard on people in your situation, huh? Do you suppose you could get up a petition to put family-use bathrooms — with locks, so they won’t trigger you! — in more government buildings, by law? I bet that’d help, wouldn’t it? …? …?.. well gee, you don’t have to be like that about it!”
Because if you were, you’d be all over social media about *them*, too.
Some of us are/were… but many of my friends have stopped following me (I have a tendency to over-post)…. and I’m just a nobody, anyway. BUT… I will still post about these issues.
Great open-letter!
Anonymous said: <— Moron
This is addressed to a collective whole. The one million who signed a letter to boycott. I’m not saying that *you* have not been concerned with other issues. I’m saying that as a whole? There was not this kind of ground swell when these other things happen over and over again. I really thing the AFA and other groups are framing this issue to draw people in with fear. I see manipulation of the masses. I would love to see this kind of response to any of the other atrocities that happen.
You sound as foolish as they come. It is and always will be about safety.
What she is saying makes perfect sense.
And she just gave you cold hard indisputable facts that what you’re afraid of in the bathrooms is all around you, everywhere you go. Did you even bother to click on the red links or do you prefer to just remain blissfully ignorant and sit on your ass all day going from Facebook post to Facebook post expressing manufactured outrage? The “safety” myth, was already debunked. Educate yourself please.
Yes – it *is about safety. More trans women were killed in the United States in 2015 than in any year prior. This climate of willful ignorance and fear will only lead to more assaults and murders of trans women. Trans individuals have been using restrooms since restrooms have been around, and there has never been a safety issue. This does not put your children, or you, at risk. Creating this huge fuss over nothing and forcing trans women into men’s spaces, however, *does create a safety issue, and puts them at additional risk. As you “think of the children”, think of the trans children who are put at risk by dicriminatory bathroom bills. Think about the trans children who are reading all this negativity and feeling hopeless about their futures. Exercise some compassion. Educate yourself.
“This is addressed to a collective whole. The one million who signed a letter to boycott. I’m not saying that *you* have not been concerned with other issues. I’m saying that as a whole? There was not this kind of ground swell when these other things happen over and over again. I really thing the AFA and other groups are framing this issue to draw people in with fear. I see manipulation of the masses. I would love to see this kind of response to any of the other atrocities that happen.”
Gretchen, then you clearly were not paying attention to the whole NFL Ray Rice scandal. The NFL originally suspended Ray Rice for two games after abusing his wife with his fists.
There was a swell of national outcry, specifically with all of the sports networks who are generally hosted by men and some women. The outrage got even bigger when the video came out on TMZ showing what he did to his wife in the elevator, knocking her out cold.
There was a swell of outrage which led to Ray Rice being fired from his job in the NFL and never getting back into it again. The NFL was forced to change it rules with how they handle domestic violence after that.
That was like a year ago. Maybe you should actually do some research on these things that you claim matter to you and that you claim no one cares enough about when clearly the majority of the American sports talk radio certainly cared.
“I’m not saying that *you* have not been concerned with other issues.”
You just accused all of us of exactly that. Are you backpedaling now? I think you owe a ton of us an apology for how terrible you represented us in your letter blog.
Josh
I apologize.
I apologize that you weren’t pointed out explicitly for being a complete moron. But, you appear to be a practitioner of the selective outrage highlighted here. You so nicely promoted your “outrage” at the NFL, yet that’s such an easy copout point. It’s easy because everyone was outraged.
More important, what are you thoughts about the more sensitive topics brought up? What’s your stance on the anti-trans policies of North Carolina, Alabama, and other backward thinking areas? What about Black Lives Matter? What about anti-Muslim fear mongering? Come back with some cogent thoughts and debate and we’ll consider apologizing to you for failing to note your thoughts.
No2GOP…
Since you are clearly a person of all action for all causes and find my NFL cause to be too lazy, I think you should know what I really did to help:
Back in college, I knew I wanted to be an author and so I asked God to provide insight on what to write about. It was at the same time, that yahoo chat became popular. One girl after another that I met on there were victims of abuse… Either physical or verbal abuse. I didn’t run away from where God was pointing me to.
The abused women were all going through similar patterns of behavior. There was one girl who even gave me a detailed description of her own rape. I didn’t realize it at the time, but she NEEDED me to listen. I willfully and gladly did so because my father who was a Pastor drilled in me from day one how important it is to care about others.
I didn’t run from my newfound responsibility. Instead I wrote a novel called The Merry-Go-Round and made a movie called Gehenna. They both go into great detail about the horrors of living under the constant control of their supposed loving husbands and boyfriends. I wrote this to show these women that they aren’t alone and there is a way out of this man-made hell on earth. I have had other women who have read my novel come up to me with details of the exact same things happening to them. I gave them all the advice I could and made sure they understood just how damn important they really are since rebuilding their insanely low self esteem is always job one.
Let me guess, you haven’t gone so far as to write a whole novel and make a movie about the cause you claim to care so much about?
Do you want a standing ovation for re-sharing blog posts and attacking people you don’t know crap about and feeling the need to call them morons since you probably don’t have the education needed to string two sentences together, let alone an entire book? Does it make you feel better to try and bring people down to your level of intelligence?
Congrats on doing almost nothing!
Josh Bruening
Ugh, Christians like you are utterly terrifying. You’re sarcastic, defensive and so hostile, you make me so uncomfortable. Of course you’ll think that’s the Holy Spirit doing the convicting instead of your own inability to handle an internet conversation with some tact and gentleness that the Bible talks about. This is exactly the reason why I entertained Christianity for a moment and then after encountering people like you, ran as fast as I could.
drinsf…
You are clearly missing the point of the sarcasm.
The person I was saying this to attacked me with no regard to knowing me one bit and called me a moron.
That person is the one with zero tact. And you’re a close second for attacking me for no reason.
God is perfect. Humans are imperfect. Maybe that should help will you better with understanding Christians.
Josh
Oh I see, another Christian who is now claiming that he gets to use “sarcasm” as a way of communicating when the Bible clearly calls Christians to a higher standard of communication both online and off. How convenient you drop the scripture in First Timothy that says teachers are held to a higher standard of conduct, now you’re saying you get to be sarcastic! Christians are always the first ones to attack other people for what we say online and then give themselves and excuse for what they say, even though they enter these conversations saying they are representing Jesus. All of the sudden when called out for their behavior do you suddenly notice how they say “I’m just human!” It’s such a lack of integrity and shows that they’ve not actually internalized the experience of Christ that they keep talking about online .
Hey Josh, are you going to demand my email be presented to you so you can send me a “private” message, just like you demanded the author provide you with one? You know, since you’re so respectful of women? I’m sure you’ll have an excuse for that too.
Man, I’m so glad people like you remind me to never consider Christianity again. I really wanted to, I was so intrigued and your behavior here – your hostility, your sarcasm – just shows me that it’s not really true.
Word! Are you running for public office? If you are, I promise to vote for you. You get it, and your eloquence about what is happening in this country is stunning! Yes, yes, yes!
Haha! Well, thank you! No, not running for public office. 😉
I think that the reason that you hear only silence, Gretchen, is that you are so far removed from any conservative, traditional or Christian outrage that you simply do not know. What makes you think that such people do not care about the rape of females no matter what their age? Or when wife and child abuse occurs? Do we not have laws from the beginning of our country designed to separate and incarcerate such perpetrators. Is it not consrvatives that are pushing for “Jessica’s Law?” Was it not conservatives that demanded accountability for a President that violated the definitions of sexual harassment and tried to cover it up, because we believe that “Character counts!” Who fought for him and supported him? Apparently, one’s political leanings are more imprtant than one’s character. Was it Christians that worked to ridicule and revile Biblical sexuality, that has caused such hyper-sexuality in the culture promoting pornography, promiscuity, prostitution, cohabitation, adultery, divorce, homosexuality and abortion to avoid the natural consequences of sex? The by-products of this promotion of sex has led to increases in abuse, pedophilia, rape, incest, a sex slave trade called human trafficking and the spread of STD’s and AIDS. Was it not the very same people that promoted this new sexual morality, really just old sexual immorality, that are now promoting these gender neutral bathrooms? In this decades long battle over sexual morality in the culture, what makes you think that this is the first time that conservatives and Christians have spoken up against such things?
You write about how such perpetrators are indeed everywhere. Have you not noticed that most people are not concerned with the transgenders as much as they are with the perpetrators pretending to be transgenders in order to extend opportunities? The cry against such opportunities is the same motivation as it was for you to stand guard at the door or cry out against rape for others
You make me sick, get off the page pls. This has nothing to do with religion, the only silence we should hear is from you.
I despise so-called people like you. No, I’m not religious, but I will fight your mangy ass for Douglas Miller’s right to say what HE thinks. I don’t give a rat’s ass if your butt is offended. As far as I am concerned, every word you wrote was offensive. Put that in your bong and smoke it!!
That was not me, by the way. I’m going to assume that was someone else named Gretchen. I do not kick anyone off my blog unless they are being abusive or threatening. Just want to make that clear.
Gretchen,
If you do delete comments to your posts, please consider deleting two posts in which they use the condition of the mentally disabled to insult each other. One is signed Keaton and other Brian. I don’t think we should a forum to anyone who insults those who do can not defend themselves.
I was just answering an article by David Brooks of the New York Times, I did not agree with much, but he did believe that we need to do more talking from one side of the political spectrum to the other to explain our views. Thank you for your dedication to free speech and freedom of conscience. I believe the same.
Well…..you want people to post and when they try to engage in dialogue with you or anyone on the left, they are silenced….this sounds like hypocracy to me
Jason, again that is an anonymous person either using my name or who is also named Gretchen. I would never speak like that to anyone on my blog or in real life. I also do not silence people on my blog.
Your rude reply invalidated your previous points. How disappointing! You are showing your intolerance. Tsk, tsk.
Dude, you are more than a little nauseating trying to paint conservative Christians in a positive light in all this. Let this liberal, bible believing Christian lush are a little secret with you: you came out of it looking like the smug, self satisfied asshole many of you guys are.
More time reading the bible dude. Less time reading Ayn Rand, and listening to all the speeches of Reagans you have taped.
Dude, you are more than a little nauseating trying to paint conservative Christians in a positive light in all this. Let this liberal, bible believing Christian share a little secret with you: you came out of it looking like the smug, self satisfied asshole many of you guys are.
More time reading the bible dude. Less time reading Ayn Rand, and listening to all the speeches of Reagans you have taped.
You give new meaning to the word nauseating!! Mix some ‘revolting’ in there and we’re getting close. What’s so damn funny to me is that you’re doing the same dame thing, you sanctimonious little twit!!!
Well, we can all study the Bible a little more, don’t you think? As a missionary in Mozambique, my job was to teach a seminary education to indigenous pastors. In retirement now, I still teacj 2-3 times per week. So yes, I have to keep up with my studies.
You are going to have to point out what was Rand and Reagan. I see no influence in my writings. But I would not necessarily be opposed to either.
I apologize for being seemingly smug and nauseating. .It was not my intent I only asked questions to give people something to think about. Did you give any thought to the questions that I asked? You are welcomed to challenge them.
Well, I guess, I could start with your assumption that conservatism is necessarily Christian. My seminary education, while conservative theologically, certainly wasn’t onservative politically.
I must admit, I find myself wondering (if you like Reagan so much) why lying about sexual harassment is so bad (Clinton) but waging an Illegal (Reagan) or immoral (BushIi) war under false pretences is ok (and Christian?) I will admit, I have conflated Reagan and Bush here, but both are defended by the Religious right, the very folks in the centre of this current travesty.
And I will help you…one involved two families and was tragic the other involved millions of families and was unspeakably tragic.
I didn’t say that, Anonymous. You might note that I talked about conservatives in the first part of my paragraph as far as legal matters are concerned, and Christians when referring to Biblical sexuality. Not all conservatives follow Biblical sexuality. I am not sure that most Christians follow such restrictions anymore as well preferring to follow the culture or their own desires. I do not conflate the two, as there are many Christian liberals and not all conservatives are Christians. There are conservatives that are such for economic reasons and others with traditional views on liberty.
I don’t defend everything that is done by consevatives, anymore than I think that you could defend in your Christian life, the actions of secular progressivism. I will say this. If you are blaming the false pretenses on WMD’s, then you also have to blame Clinton as well. He, British Intelligence, and even Russian intelligence all said that he had WMD’s and a history of using them against his own citizens in the Kurds. And note that Saddam Hussein, himself, never denied having them. Liberals were even saying that we should not go in there, because our troops did not have enough protection against WMD’s. Nobody said that Bashar al_Assad had WMD’s and yet he managed to have and use them in spite of warnings
What would you do after 9/11? Would you have done the same thing that we did after attacks on our Marines in Beirut, or the USS Cole in the Persian Gulf, or our embassies in Africa – almost nothing? The primary purpose of a nation is to defend its citizens here and abroad. It would be nice if we could just be nice to everyone and they would be nice to us. But some people look upon niceness as weakness and subservience. There are those in the world that would gladly remove your faith from the face of the earth, some by eliminating your ability to speak on such subjects, others by killing you outright, as they have proven on videotape on a regular basis.
Clinton’s indiscretion affected more than two families. It established a hypocrisy in liberal politics that excused the politicians if their politics were right. And the reverse, to go after anyone if their politcs were wrong.
LOL. That’s rich. You folks have found a way to blame us for that as well. Bush lied thru his teeth but it’s the fault of the democrats and Liberals cause we didn’t stop him. Never mind the whole “you are for the war or against the troops” tripe you people loved to throw in our faces.
Do you people even listen to yourselves?
Well, I fold. You win, your moral superiority wins out in the end.
Unbelievable
Jesus help is all.
Are you actually comparing Bill Clinton getting a BJ from a consenting adult as being the same as children getting raped? Wow. This is exactly why I ran as far away from Christianity as I could. Thank you for validating that decision.
I didn’t make that comaprison at all. I am merely pointing out that secular progressives have pushed the culture to a hyper-sexualized promiscuity that has resulted in numerous problems for our society.
Note that our concern over opening bathrooms to the gender of choice is not against transgenders, but against opportunistic pedophiliac perpetrators would be able to take opportunities to be in positions with young people.
Gretchen Kelly, wrote in the article, “Those predators you’re so worried will sneak into the Target bathroom? They’re all around you. They are your Priest, your kid’s coach, your neighbor, your uncle, your youth group leader, your United States Speaker of the House. They are a savvy bunch, these sick bastards. They flock to places where they can gain your trust. They go to great pains to appear normal and friendly. They don’t sport a beard and a dress and waltz into the bathroom to attack your women and children.”
If such peretrators are willing to go so far as to plan their careers around opportunities to be close to children, then what makes you think that they will not take advantage of a law that says that you can enter a bathroom or locker room and political correctness will protect you from challenged for being in the wrong room?
Nothing you wrote was factual.
My point is that pedophiles can be a priest, boy scout leader, an uncle, a father. They are all around us. Transgendered people are no more prone to that than others. Having separate bathrooms for a group of people that happens to make you feel icky is not a reason to single that group out.
You’re wrong. Studies show that trans people do not molest the way repressed religious people do – the number one offenders.
If you “feel icky” around anyone you need to seek help, not marginalize others.
Thanks for the reply. I don’t think they will because if they were doing that? They were already doing that! What about this can’t you all understand? Predators don’t follow the law, for God’s sake. Apply some common sense. The same predators who’ve been lurking around bathrooms will still be there, you all are just attaching your fear of what you don’t understand to this issue.
Douglas Miller, I notice you like to use “conservative” and “Christian” hand-in-hand. Those two are not tied to one another. I’d also like to bring up, since you conviently left this out, all of the “conservatives” getting caught engaging in behavior that you would find morally reprehensible. You also failed to mention the perversions done by men of God. Most importantly if you were a true Christian, you would be spreading love, not hate. Please educate yourself. I felt like I lost some brain cells reading your post. Also, stop picking and choosing morals from the Bible to suit your needs. It’s outplayed and hypocritical.
No, I didn’t mention the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition either. My bad. I have already explained above why I switched from conservative to Christian and that I do not hold that the terms are synonymous. After all, every Democratic president has claimed Christianity as well.
Yes, many conservatives and Christians have committed morally reprehensible behavior. “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” [Romans 3:23] I am pretty sure that that includes me. The big question is what do we do with our sins? Do we repent of them as Jesus commands or do we revel in them and celebrate them?
Yes, it is a shame what those Catholic priests did. Jesus has some hard words for those that hurt children. [Matthew 18:6] Furthermore, they broke their oaths of celibacy in the act as well. There is no excuse for the priests, nor for the Church to cover it up. It has always been known that there is an especially high number of homosexuals among the priesthood; and indeed, most of the pedophilia that took place (80%) was homosexual in nature. But even there, the number of Catholic priests that took part in this abomination, was relatively small at 0.4% while (it still pains me to say it because I used to be a teacher) teachers that do this are at 0.8%. So their faith and oaths must have done some good.
Since becoming a Christian, I have spent most of my career and vacations either teaching on Christianity or doing charity work in either the inner-city or in some of the poorest nations in the world. So what makes you think that I am spreading hate and not love? Is it not a stereotype that you have about conservative Christians? How is it that you can accuse me of picking and choosing what morals to suit my needs. Again, is that nat part of your stereotype? Finally, you judge me as a hypocrite. On what basis?
I apologize for the loss of your brain cells.
Why is J.F.K. such a hero but Bill Clinton is a dog? J.F.K. had more than 1 affair in the White House. Charlotte is receiving the brunt of all this, when they had actually gone for it. Raleigh and Governor McRory And Charlotte Mayor Wwere thre ones who started the up roar. You can bet who will not be reelected come November!
Because when John F. Kennedy was alive as President, the general public had no idea that in this Camelot, it was King John having the affairs, and not Queen Jackie. And he was a very popular President that was assassinated. An assassins bullet fired at a President or any eleted official is a shot fired at Demoracy itself. At such a time, it is difficult to distinguish the two.
The “natural consequences of sex” often included death back in biblical times and right on up until modern medicine caught up with and surpassed what ancient Greeks had (and lost to history). And at alarming rates. Women died from infections. Women died from things like gestational diabetes. Women died from things like complications with labor and delivery. Women died because of miscarriages. Women died from fetuses being fertilized and growing outside the uterus. Women bled to death. Women were carved up by butchers without much training who left them disfigured at best. Women died in poverty with their children. Girls died from pregnancy complications after being married off too young. Babies died from lack of nourishment. Babies died from complications in delivery. Babies died moments after birth from genetic disorders or diseases. Babies died of exposure. Babies died from lack of food or care after their mothers died in labor or soon after.
You want to go back to all that because it seems purer somehow than modern medicine?
“Abortion” is not a single medical procedure and the uses of it should be between the woman and her doctor. One woman might need and “abortion” because she’s miscarried and the remaining tissue is causing an infection. One might be an 11 year old raped by an uncle. Another might be a mother of four who can’t afford another mouth and is horrified to discover her birth control failed. Another might be in an abusive relationship and terrified a baby will not only ruin her chances of escaping, but forever tie her to her abuser. Another might be a year from graduating college with honors and on a path to greatness that motherhood would derail. Another might have wanted a baby for years, but just found out hers would be born with a debilitating and terminal illness that might allow her newborn a few years of excruciating pain before death. Another might have multiple fetuses growing and not be able to support them all physically or might have one that’s died and need to remove it to give the other(s) a chance).
By lumping all these other sanctimonious ideas in your rebuttal of the original poster, you reveal that your support of such discrimination laws has nothing to do with the safety or health of women, but rather the control and denigration of anyone who is unable or unwilling to be a straight, white, cis male “in god’s image.”
Who is rejecting modern medicine ? Yes, death has a chance as a natural consequence of sex. The greatest opportunities for death as a natural consequence of sex is a promiscuous society in which STD’s are easily passed from one to another. And we lose hundreds of thousands of people each year. Of course, in as you say “biblical times,” there was no cure for such diseases. But Somebody understood enough to know that virginity until marriage and faithful marriage would create a closed relationship in which STD’s could not or rarely enter. Uganda was the only nation in Africa to make headway against AIDS. How did they do it? By promoting the ABC program, but the only part that was successful was, “Be Faithful.” Even in the United States, where we can cure most STD’s, 25% of females between the ages of 15-19 have or have had an STD. Now if those statistics were AIDS instead of the curable list, we ight be losing 6000/day like what is happening in Africa.
I understand the potential problems of pregnancy. Certainly And if that was the reason for pro-life should mean pro-life for the mother as well. From a personal family problem, my sister-in-law was carrying their third son, when with just a month to go, something went terribly wrong. The child was likely to die and take the mother with her. Devout Catholics, both of them, they went to the church for a special dispensation and received it immediately. Of course, the big difference is that they wanted this child, but it is hard to imagine a husband choosing to lose his wife or for their other sons to lose their mother for a child that they do not know. Nevertheless, they named the child, Andrew, and had him baptized and given a funeral. He was not just a lump of cells. And if that was the reason for abortions, then there would be no deate. The problem is that all of your examples are a very small number as the reason for abortion, less than 2%. The greatest genocide of all time is that inflicted upon those innocents who should be “as safe as in their Momma’s womb.”
“…most people are not concerned with the transgenders as much as they are with the perpetrators pretending to be transgenders in order to extend opportunities?”
Because that simply isn’t happening.
Mr Miller, I worry more my kids will be raped by a priest than I worry about them being raped by a trans. There are plenty of cases to support the former, but where are the cases supporting the latter?
******************
Was it Christians that worked to ridicule and revile Biblical sexuality, that has caused such hyper-sexuality in the culture promoting pornography, promiscuity, prostitution, cohabitation, adultery, divorce, homosexuality and abortion to avoid the natural consequences of sex? The by-products of this promotion of sex has led to increases in abuse, pedophilia, rape, incest, a sex slave trade called human trafficking and the spread of STD’s and AIDS.
**********************
“Biblical sexuality”? Which “Biblical sexuality” are you referring to? The incest that supposedly took place in Noah’s family to repopulate the Earth? Lot fucking his daughters? David and Solomon with piles of wives and concubines? In Leviticus 15:28-30, where women are required to perform animal sacrifices for the grave sin of menstruating normally? Cutting off a woman’s hand if she accidentally touches a man’s genitalia while helping her husband fight him off?
The spread of STDs has been reduced by two things: condoms and sex education, two things which Christians typically are busy waging war against. Know what reduces abortions? Sex education and condoms and birth control. Again, things Christians don’t want. (It should be noted that in Texas, where abstinence-only is taught, they have the highest rate of *second* teen unmarried pregnancies.)
Also, I would like to bring to your attention the fact that all of the things you mentioned occur among Christians at about the same rate as anyone else. Christians watch porn (actually the highest rates of porn consumption in America are in the “bible belt”), Christians have abortions and divorces, Christians co-habitate, and there are lots of gay Christians. Oh, and Christians molest children… and get away with it because churches hide that behavior.
I will also point out that the states with the best secular sex education also have the *lowest* rates of teen pregnancy, STD infections, abortions, and rapes. In other words, you bible-thumping fuckwit, you’re doing it wrong.
So take your “morality” and your “biblical sexuality” and fuck off.
So for one thing we have laws to protect the privacy and comfort of women so they can go to the bathroom, it’s not a LGBT thing as no one cares where you go to the bath room as long as you aren’t invacing the rights of others, But if you are a predatory male then the ladies should have recourse, not make it a legal defense for them to invade the ladies room because they are gender confused. There are a .ooo1% gender confused so they should iflict their confustion on the rest of the populace? nuts.
As a woman, this arguement is baseless. How does the writer know how each male has defended the women in his life. Target Boycott is in the forefront because Target INVITED straight men into women’s, WOMEN’S bathrooms and fitting rooms. Not proveded unisex bathrooms. Why should womens rooms be tampered with and all those women be needlessly exposed to threat. It’s absurd.
Please stop and do some research before you post a public comment like “target has invited straight men into women’s bathrooms”. Are you uneducated or simply misinformed? Transgender individuals look and live their lives as the opposite sex. I don’t believe that constitutes a “Straight” man. Would you rather have an individual who is dressed and looks like a man using your women’s restroom just because they have a vagina under their clothes? Would that make you more comfortable? Or would you rather have a person dressed as a female (probably more attractive than most females you know) using the men’s restroom because they have a penis under their clothes. Please, provide me with an explanation. Which one makes you feel more uncomfortable?
I can assure you, at some point in your sheltered life you have shared a restroom with a transgender individual and did not know.
Moving forward please keep your ignorant and incorrect thoughts to yourself. And please please please…. Do not have exposure to those more simple minded than you. I hate to think you can have influence on others.
Thank you
really….
you should go to Live Leak right now and watch the video of the completely straight, dressed as a man, man ask the manager of target if he can go into the women’s room… and the manager answers him, YES. he then says. even if women have a problem with it?… manager replies…yep… just tell them to come see me. this man was making a point and did not have one attribute of a transgender but was told to go on in.
Really go to target and ask for yourself. All a person has to do know is say he or she is transgender and they are allowed to use what ever bathroom they want no matter how the look. So a straight male could simply say I’m transgender and walk right into the woman room period ended. That is all it takes I asked 3 different Target Stores all is needed is I say I am transgender and a free pass to any bathroom I want. That is the problem with their policy not if transgender are in there or not the way the policy is written and carried out is all it takes is words to get in not looks.
What do you think will happen when these straight men enter the women’s restroom? Have you guys ever been in a women’s restroom? It’s not like we have urinals out in the open and we are flouncing around with our genitals showing… we have stalls, with (ususally) locks on the doors. If I am shopping at Target and a man dressed in men’s clothing comes in the restroom while I am there, I wouldn’t be worried… what’s he going to see? On the other hand, if a person with a penis dressed in women’s clothing were forced to use the men’s restroom, I can easily imagine the abuse that person is likely to suffer, ranging from probable verbal abuse to possible physical assault.
If a straight man wants to hurt a woman, there’s much easier places to do it than a women’s restroom.
If that is going on at Target, then obviously there is a problem. However, none of this would have been an issue if the legislators or North Carolina hadn’t started this crazy notion that transgender people are a danger to society and therefore need to use the “right” bathroom in their opinion.
I think you’re a tad bit retarded. Target never invited straight men into the ladies room. Target simply stated that transgendered guests can use the restroom they are comfortable in. Good job aiding the writers argument though. I feel like Walmart is more your speed anyways..
Let’s talk about mental retardation for a moment. Let’s talk about you.
When someone comes to you and says they were born a man but are actually a woman on the inside, do you ask for proof? Or do you just assume they are telling the truth? When Target says “transgendered” – which by the way doesn’t even require that the person in question attempt to physically mimic the opposite sex – can use the bathroom they feel comfortable in, do you actually think Target has a mind reading device that tells them if some Andre the Giant looking guy is actually a six year old girl? Or is everyone supposed to carry a note from their psychiatrist certifying what their imaginary gender is?
A mental retard I imagine would have difficulty figuring these things out. The rest of us understand that this is one huge invitation to chaos.
Brian, what about this? This is an actual biologically born woman that was kicked out of the women’s room because she didn’t look like a woman and someone complained. She was asked for proof but didn’t have ID. Is this ok? Should she have been trusted? Why don’t we just ask everyone for ID?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GXIaHjZ-Ok
Anonymous is anonymous. A coward who hides beyond that username because he/she doesn’t have the courage to identify as anything but anonymous.
I might disagree with Gretchen, and do on this issue. Yet, she invites me to this table to talk, and tell her what I think. I admire her for her writing skill, and the way she articulates her convictions.
We’re all on a journey in life struggling through difficult issues that confront us. Don’t make it more difficult than it already is by your sordid comments.
So, for anyone including you, “Anonymous”, that will hide, and resort to debasing name calling, please, take your wares elsewhere. And, let those who can sit at this table, and share their convictions, whether pro and con to the author do so without making it personal.
Gretchen reveals her character stands far above yours by not lowering herself to your level, and far too wise to ever do so.
Too many Anonymouseseses! It is hard to distinguish which Anonyous is which..
Reblogged this on 2ndaspect and commented:
Cannot say it better!!!
Well said, Gretchen. And thank you for pointing out the facts: “…in states with pro-Transgender bathroom policies, there has been no increase in assaults.”
The argument that a transgender woman (someone born with male parts who identifies as a female) would go into the ladies room to rape women and children has always been a red herring and a perfect example of fear mongering to perpetuate hatred and intolerance.
These same allegations of “they’re raping our women” were directed at black men not so long ago. Here’s an excellent article about the history of this phrase: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2015/06/the_deadly_history_of_they_re_raping_our_women_racists_have_long_defended.html
If a straight male rapist decided to dress as a woman and enter a Target bathroom … they can do that regardless of Target’s policies … no? I don’t believe there is any form of genitalia check on the way in. Making it illegal for a transgender woman to use the ladies room in public places is bigotry. Pure and simple.
No. The actual red herring here is what you’ve posited: that anyone is talking about a feminized male raping women.
No, this goes to the question of objective reality. Objective reality is observable. You can observe someone’s physical sex. You can’t observe the contents of a person’s mind.
No, the actual, real non-fish objection here is that you’re changing the standard from something objective and measurable to something subjective, unmeasurable, and completely imaginary. How is someone supposed to evaluate whether another person ACTUALLY feels like a woman inside? What measure of reality are you going to use to differentiate between actual transgenders and those who are out to cause mischief?
Are we all now going to be required to carry a note from a psychiatrist certifying the “gender” of our mental state? Are you going to ask the person claiming to be transgender to prove it by singing a show tune? Are you going to check their clothing fashions?
But wait, that’s gender stereotyping! A male to female transgender could look like Larry the Cable Guy. There’s nothing saying that a female must take on traditionally female roles and appearances, right?
So why don’t you address that instead of inventing not-very-clever strawmen.
You said it – I’ve never once heard someone say they’re worried about ACTUAL transgender people assaulting anyone, yet people are constantly talking about it like that’s the only concern people have!
That’s the whole point of this article–suddenly, people are worked up about the possibility of males raping women and children–but only in Target bathrooms. Because transgender. The blogger is pointing out the ludicrous hypocrisy of thousands boycotting Target, over imagined, possible rapes, but who never boycotted the sports teams, colleges, record labels, etc., that turned a blind eye to real, actual, committed assaults against real, actual human beings. Hence the logical conclusion that the boycotters’ concern about rape is phony, and their true concern is about society recognizing and accepting transgender people.
I think carrying a note is fine. Most psychiatrists write a transition note for patients in transition until we reach the point we can change our legal identification. Of course there will be a lot more masculine looking cis women being bothered to show their ID than transwomen since there are a lot more of them and they aren’t as likely to be going out of their way to hide any masculine traits.
Reblogged this on Sophia Sojourn and commented:
This is one worth the space here. She captures my frustration with these arguments – especially since I am in the group of people they are throwing under then bus.
As a Christian transwoman and victim of sexual assault, Thank you. A thousand times, thank you. reblogged at http://www.sophiasojourn.com
i think what makes me the sickest from all the commenting, isn’t the fact that the topic is right or wrong, it’s how people can so easily call someone out, and use names, that don’t even know the person, to me, thats more absurd than the actual topic. I think to be honest that’s why all the hate happen’s, from people like the commenters here, nothing gets done because we care more about debating, than solving, let’s be honest its more “fun”, that’s how this whole thing happens. Might as well put in my 2 cents towards this while I’m at it. Having transgender individuals use any restroom won’t stop the violence and sickness, rape, and wrong doings, it won’t, why? because first off anyone with such intent does it anyway, goes into a restroom and causes havoc, so it really doesn’t matter. The only concern i’d have, is it allows for more opportunity for perverts to feel ok about well, being perverts, because now what happens is we begin to say our sexual and gender privacy is diminished, i mean, ya there is that. Where i don’t think it’s right for any gender to use any bathroom, or any gender to use any locker room, because it takes away from sexual intimacy when it’s out in the public, like porn weakens the mind toward sexual appetite. But if someone legitimately identifies with a different sex, then ya, i guess its fine, because that’s not the problem, that’s harmless, maybe from a Christian outlook not right, but if they genuinely and honestly are transgender and mean well, then of course welcome them into any restroom. Jesus didn’t make separate places for the sinners and the righteous. We shouldn’t either. People do need to be prepared to understand it will confuse the hell out of our youth, as kids we identify with a sex, it could cause confusion at a young age, who knows. Now, also, I’m a Christian, and from that perspective, someone who struggles or feels to be a different sex, shouldn’t be hated or hurt for that, if they feel its wrong thats between them and God and IF they truly seek and know God, their choice and truth will be found, whatever they find. So its really not up to man to call out someone like many do here, and oh ok those blasting Christians, well, we’re human too, which is why we need God, which is why we are Christians, so really what we can’t be wrong?, or human? or have opinions?, i just see a lot of hate towards Christians, but where in the hell has Christianity, keep in mind again not people, i mean true God’s word following people, in todays culture caused more death and evil and sickness and stuff, i think we should be more worried about sick people not religion or faith. I’m done ranting, its pointless any who
Actually the issue is that these topics are debated at all. End of story.
I was with you…. until you brought religion into the mix. See I’m a gay male. Once upon a time I attended church every Sunday and prayer group and… you get the point. See this isn’t about religion, not one single bit. It isn’t about sexual privacy either. It’s about identifying with an icon on a sign posted on a door when it comes time to relieve ones self.
What many fail to realize is that bathrooms are not designed by corporations. Sure, companies pick tile and laminates and plumbing fixtures but the reality is there are several sections of the International Building Code that specifically determine the number of stalls, sinks, and, and even when a facility is required to provide separate facilities for males and females. Those codes I might add rarely change. In fact, the majority of that section was written in the 90’s as part of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Anyway, my point is here that we need to stop thinking about this situation as a pervert haven, a sexual revolution, and a reason to rant about the. It is simply and at its most basic about giving human beings a place in which they feel comfortable in taking care of the human body’s most basic of functions. Let’s stop making this more than it really is.
Aside from that and on a different note directed to the author of the open letter: I understand the predisposition to focusing attentions on women or women. And children whom are the victims.of rape but let’s not forget that the, especially transgender and lgbt men, are also the victims of rape; this is not an issue limited to a single gender – and that has me outraged,
My apologies for the typographical errors in my response. A tiny phone keyboard, big thumbs, and no way of editing after the fact make for some.fun moments.
I hear you, B. Smith. And yes, the whole reason for the Pro-Transgender bathroom laws is to protect LGBT from assault that they are in danger of. They are in far more danger than any woman or child in a public restroom. My post was simply addressing the argument that I have been hearing, that “the women and children are in danger because of the Target policy.” I wanted to poke holes in the fear that is running rampant and show all of the things that are happening to “women and children” that they should get worked up about if “women and children” are their concern. I hope that clears up the intent of my post. I care very much about the abuse that is inflicted upon LGBT.
People bring up Christianity because it’s so often people waving metaphorical Bibles and ranting about “sinners” who get discriminatory laws passed and support them. You know, “walks like a duck” and all that.
As for confusing youth… I’m not sure why your youth — or anyone else’s — are joining strangers in bathroom stalls. Bathrooms have stalls. Locker rooms have stalls and showers have doors or curtains. Only the most body-loving and immodest (and attention-seeking) tend to walk around locker rooms without at least a towel wrapped around them. A transgender person trying to blend in probably wouldn’t be walking around completely nude unless just with friends/family who loved and supported them). Furthermore, normal people in general stay out of stranger’s stalls and showers, avert their eyes or at least refrain from staring at nude people in locker rooms (since bodies are normal things and the other people are going about the process of changing or showering not putting on a show).
Frankly, I’m a little astounded that so many people are apparently spying on other people’s genitalia through stall door cracks in some effort to make sure no “other” pulls something over on them. Here all this time, I’ve just been using the restroom, washing my hands, and leaving without caring who else is doing what else in there.
I didn’t say it was about religion, I just made my thoughts as a Christian, and again I said transgender individuals shouldn’t be singled out and hurt, so I guess I’m not sure what’s wrong here. B smith what your saying is what I’ve said too, and I’m glad you agree with some points. I didn’t say it was making perverts have easier access, your right it’s not about that, all I was saying was there are perverts and those, not true transgender people, could use it in a bad way, lastly it’s not really arguable that Jesus would not shun and separate anyone, so as a Christian I won’t either. That’s all! That’s all I’m saying, really everything I posted is very much what everyone commented, so cool beans I’m glad at least people talk about it civilized and not name calling on my reply, I respect each who replied very much 🙂
Gretchen, the is beautifully written, raw, and honest. You are 100% correct on your assessment of what gets media attention, and what doesn’t. I also find the lack of “outrage” over trans men using the men’s restroom. I believe that in itself says a lot. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions on this topic and others.
For the two years following my orthopedic surgery residency I worked in pediatric orthopedics. During my training, which included cleaning up the physical mayhem of the Vietnam War, NOTHING prepared me for the horror of the child abuse cases I had to treat. A one year old with two broken femurs, a destroyed hand of a three year old whose hand was thrust into boiling water to teach them a lesson and even worse cases I can’t politely describe, all of this perpetrated by a family member. We need a license for almost everything we do these days and if you abuse that privilege you can lose that license. Unfortunately one doesn’t need a license to become a parent so we could take it away when you abuse that right. Gretchen Kelly has eloquently described the current situation better than many realize. Thank you!
I just want to start with stating that our family has NOT boycotted OR signed a petition against Target for their new bathroom policy. We’ve actually shopped there three times since this announcement, which is the most I’ve been in Target all year..
We simply do not agree with the new policy, so we use the family restroom. There’s five of us- my wife & I, plus our three boys, aged 3, 6, & 9.
My wife and I are completely comfortable around anyone with an “alternative” lifestyle. Before the kiddos arrived, we would even hang out with our friends at the “gay” clubs. We have all the sympathy for our friend’s plight of persecution, but believe this comes down to a matter of common sense..
First off, this is not a new issue- just simply a big-box store has decided to make a stand for what its core values reflect. Was it necessary? Not really, because as everyone has pointed out, trams-persons didn’t just enter society when Target made its announcement.
The issue at hand is that another problem that has existed from the beginning of time – that men, women, and children are abused, beaten, raped, and/or killed when they are put in a vulnerable position. Does this happen all the time? No. Is it a more common occurrence than we would think? Yes.
So we’ve come to a crossroads where we are trying to protect the transgender minority, just the same as we are trying to protect the rest of our population, but in doing so, have created opportunity for others to be hurt.
Please take note that the Target policy states that people may use the restroom for the gender they IDENTIFY with. This means either men or women (or adolescents) may walk into either bathroom knowing that they can claim “identity” if questioned about being there. This opens a huge can of worms where people could be installing hidden cameras or committing other nefarious acts under the GUISE of being transgender.
Here’s my common sense solution- three bathrooms. One for people with penises, one for people with vaginas, and one single room “unisex” or “family” restroom if you are not comfortable with the restroom you belong to. Also, I mention the genitalia specifically because it shouldn’t matter if one has a “Y” chromosome or not once surgery has been performed to change one’s gender.
This is NOT hate related, I’m just trying to take into account EVERYONE involved and not have bias toward one group or another. I also believe the vast majority feels the same way and has a hard time articulating their viewpoint. Of course there is bigotry in the world, and this issue isn’t immune to it.
BTW, bigot is defined as “a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.” We have a wonderful country of so many differences amongst the population that makes us stronger than all other nations, but if you can’t be tolerant of your neighbor’s opinion, you are, by definition, being a bigot, regardless of which side of the issue you stand.
My two cents.
Timothy, I completely understand your concerns. And I appreciate how eloquently you presented them. I think there are many who have your same concerns who aren’t anti- LGBT. But… the evidence from states who’ve had the pro-Trans bathroom laws on the books for years show NO increase in bathroom assaults. The facts are that these laws have been around for years and it’s been a non-issue. This has become an issue because of N.C. (and other states) passing bills that are highly discriminatory. (and I’m convinced the N.C. law is about many other things than LGBT bathroom access. that’s just a fine distraction while they strip away other protections) This is a trumped up fear. And it’s rather suspicious to me that there are stories popping up of straight men entering women’s restrooms since this became a big story. Until this became a story in recent weeks, there were no incidences. That’s according to police departments and human rights groups in the states that had these laws. And even thought the incidences of assault and molestation in public bathrooms has always been low, I still was highly vigilant when my son would go to the men’s room alone (he’s 15 so he’s been doing that for years). What does that tell me? That this problem is far outside the public restrooms. This is a problem of society that needs to be addressed. The Target bathroom controversy is a distraction from the real problem.
I think maybe some of what you are missing is that Charlotte passed a very overreaching ordinance that was very vague. I don’t know how many have actually stopped to read it. It didn’t just cover bathrooms. It covered locker rooms and other places where people change. I can cite this if you need me too. It also required private businesses to accommodate no matter what. It listed lgbt and also gender identity and gender expression? The problem is no one can define gender expression precisely. It wasn’t voted on and had numerous critics. And while many people don’t see it as an issue, the leader of the lgbt chamber group that pushed for this change, is a convicted sexual predator. Look it up. What NC actually did was take out the state buildings and schools from the Charlotte ordinance. Private businesses can still do what they want with their bathrooms. So it really isn’t much different than it was except that Charlotte can’t mandate what happens in state buildings. I think a lot is made of this without all the facts.
I’m very familiar with the Charlotte ordinance, as that was my home town. What Charlotte was doing was basically changing nothing. Transgender people had been using the bathrooms they identify with since, well, forever. This law was aimed to protect the abuse that Trans people were dealing with when they would be “questioned” about their gender. When a Trans person is transitioning, they are under great stress to “pass” as their gender. It is a scary thing for them, especially if they worry that someone will give them grief as they try to use the public restroom. The law in Charlotte was simply giving them the protection. That’s it. The HB2 has no means of enforcing that portion of the law.
In addition, HB2 stripped cities in NC of the right to set fair wages. Stripped people of the right to sue their employers for discrimination at the state level. The law is horrendous and I have a suspicion that it is about allowing businesses to operate with no regard to employee’s rights. Gov. McCrory is a known ally to the Kock Brothers due to his ties to Duke Energy. There’s a lot more going on there than a bathroom law. And it’s all pretty awful, was done in a sneaky way before most legislators even had a chance to read the entire bill (30 minutes is all they were given before the vote.)
Also, other states have had pro-Trans bathroom laws for years. Similar to what Charlotte was trying to do. Las Vegas and Minneapolis are the two that I can remember off the top of my head. According to their police departments, there have been no increases in bathroom assaults since the laws were passed.
Minimum wage was set for the state. Sorry if you don’t agree but that is a complicated issue. The NC law backed off the protections for being fired, which by the way are covered under federal law. My aunt has been transgendered in NC for forth years. She never had an issue with the bathroom. And to your point that i would not know who is trans going into the bathroom already, then how do people know to single them out? Just curious. Again, it’s only state buildings and schools, which the city has no power over anyway. Please explain how I’m wrong on that.
Finally some has said it. This is not about religion, this is not about any of the issues that were stated in the article. This is simply about someone, anyone who can CLAIM they are a woman OR a man. This is not gender biased this is common sense. Does anyone really take a moment to realise its as simple as a child predator saying they feel like a woman and nextypu find a small child or an adult woman was assaulted or worse, killed. Now listen carefully as i say a MAN can identify as a woman. I am an adult male speaking against the thought of another male, so throw your sexism and hate comments in a different direction to all who oppose. Now lets get to the other half of this. A woman can claim to be a man, then yet another child can be victimized.
Moving to another point, what if that child was YOUR? Your sister, your mother, your wife and even your cousin? Would you still be supportive of this main article knowing a loved one of yours what hurt or killed because of this damn open door policy? A family restroom should be provided for those that have doubts about their gender in reality.
I stand for everyone in their total beliefs. I do not discriminate against and man, woman, gay, bi, trans, lesbian. I have gay friends, i have lesbian friends, bi friends.
Timothy McPhail and Douglas Miller made the strongest point yet to this article and comment thread. There are woman here attacking these men for being concerned about the well being of a WOMAN! How pathetic on your part.
So sure, by all means let these predators have yet another free roam opportunity to harm YOUR CHILDREN or YOUR WIFE. However, My fiancee stands to disagree with Targets decision. A woman with concerns about the new policy? Sounds to me like the woman posting in agreeance are losing a leg to stand on. My son and my daughter will use a bathroom at another property or if my local Target chooses to have a family restroom available, that will be used until this decision is reversed.
My children are my everything and even though the supporters of this article cant seem to see how wrong allowing this gateway for predators is then that will be your downfall.
Whether i have made my point or not. Whether you can understand me as a person with my rightful beliefs such as i understand your god given right to opinion or if you will just banter and bash me as you all have done to these two insightful men who just worry the same as i do or any of you ever will. Just realize men, women and children alike are in danger with this decision to allow such a capable gateway.
I have made my point and will no longer continue to amuse any such replies or hateful, bashful comments that you may have. I stand with my decision to understand when my wife to be is uncomfortable with Targets decision and with my ability to care for my children and protect them, END OF STORY. Will i boycott Target however? No, they have been nothing but a great company to shop for. Maybe their beliefs on the bathroom policy are misguided, i still will remain a customer as i always have been.
Again i say to Timothy and Douglas that i stand here understanding and supporting your points, well said to say the very least!
To also make this clear i was not opposing Gretchans right to speak her mind. Her article was well written and did raise many valid points. I just cannot stand and feel it is safe to allow such a possibilty of women or children being assaulted.
But it is true we all have our own beliefs and i dont see a reason why we cannot have differentopinions. Instead of attacking other people just take your belief and act on it, dont send your children to these bathrooms if your worried simple as that.
This post got out of hand. Express your opinions, dont be so disgusting towards others with your words just because their belief is different from yours.
(Not sure if my name showed on my article supporting Timothy and Douglas, but that long post was mine. I do not hide behind words, i dont post anon)
I’m stunned at how thin-skinned those of you are that actually believing people holding you accountable to your Christian beliefs being lived out and expressed consistently is “attacking” you. When did you develop such a substantial persecution complex? There are a lot of people who are angry with you, who have experienced the harm that you cause to us and to our families. Would you prefer that people just be quiet about it or do you actually want people to be honest with you about it? Or honest but in terms that don’t make you feel badly? Well how about how badly you’ve made people feel? How you’ve impacted American citizens lives who don’t believe what you believe but still (have to) live alongside you? How much longer will you demand that everyone hold back just how hurt we are by you and how angry we are at you for what you have done to the GLBTA community? To our families, our neighbors, our friends?
Have some integrity and actually listen without demanding people focus on your feelings for once.
They’ve always been like this. It’s why they’re so.quick to descriminate against and kill others. They do make up over 90% of the prison population.
Timothy, I have read way to many of these replies to Gretchen Kelly blog and while I appreciated both yours and Gretchen’s comments, I have to say, your following comment is where I draw the line…
“Here’s my common sense solution- three bathrooms. One for people with penises, one for people with vaginas, and one single room “unisex” or “family” restroom…”
Please tell me that this was just said in jest…!
I have no dog in this fight… (In full disclosure) 57yo white dude who was raised in Texas but that was a long time ago. I have some education but mostly “hard knocks”, have lived, worked, or visited 48 of the 50 states, worked internationally for many years, and backpacked Australia and NZ for 18 months in my mid twenties… Oh, and make a better income than I should…
With that out of the way; I find it difficult to understand that after such a thoughtful response to Gretchen’s blog you threw in the “His”, “Hers”, and “Other” (apologize for being crude) Do you not understand how this will effect business? Small business, restaurants, and gas stations all requiring 3 bathrooms or perhaps maybe just unisex bathrooms???
We or at least to me… seems like this country is determined to self destruct with so much hatefulness that is going on… Burger King employees demanding 15.00hr, Business with swimming pools requiring lifts (http://www.ada.gov/qa_existingpools_titleIII.htm), Social Security going broke, Highways, bridges, and dams in ill-repair. Education system broken and as well as the economy… and on and on goes the list…!
Accountability is out the door…!!! Burger King is an entry level job and geared mostly for kids but because the economy has been so bad for so long adults have taken these jobs to try and keep their family fed and a roof over their head. Adults have been throwing paper routes for years now… OK, enough as I quickly see this turning into a rant so I will end this quickly…!!!
We have so many people/groups hollering and screaming at the top of their lungs that nobody is listening anymore… Every acronym you can think of has become irrelevant due to the noise… BLM, ADA, ACLU…
In all due respect to all parties involved, the LGBT community may need to be careful about how this subject is approached… You know, when I was young, it was legal to drink and drive in Texas… Dad would always pick me up at the airport with a six pack of Coors in the front seat… Even though it was legal, I never once took a swig in front of a cop just to prove the point… He would have had every right to pull us over and hassle us to no end…
Just my 2 cents, lee
PS yes, I am against raising minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour for an entry level into the workforce and I hate tipping *Note; I am a damn good tipper but I would rather use the European mind set when it comes to this… business pay your employees and I will pay for my meal…! Why is it that sometimes I see the 25% helpful hint on a meal receipt these days??? I thought the 18% hint was insulting enough!!!
What a bunch of sanctimonious garbage. Do you honestly think anyone who takes issue with making all bathrooms co-ed must also have no problem with any of the things you mentioned? Get off your high horse.
I only have one question, ye on the judgemental soap box…Where were you?
I know where those people were. They were sitting in the sidelines saying they deserved it.
Reblogged this on At Long Last Heard and commented:
Every single person needs to read this. Please.
Very well-said. Thank you for writing this. As a survivor of a violent sexual assault, it is so unsettling how caviler people are about all of it. Is it a happy subject to talk about? Absolutely not. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t. That does not mean we NEED to. It seems that until it happens to them directly, the idea is just too much to contemplate. Anyway, thank you for such a powerful post. I posted it to my Facebook page, At Long Last Heard, and, if you don’t mind, would love to post it my blog of the same name.
Thanks for your excellent and provocative article. The comments that follow are also interesting in so many ways. Some have expressed concern that the relaxed and more open views on sex and sexuality have created this situation without acknowledging that abuse and promiscuity and the like have been happening since the dawn of time. Some people are concerned about straight men going into women’s bathroom to abuse. Are they concerned about the straight men who abuse boys? People need to learn more about sex abuse and how secrecy feeds the abuse of children. Churches have been breeding grounds for abuse in some circles. Bottom line that we need to take the fear mongering out of these discussions.
I frankly do not understand why this has become such an issue. There are far bigger issues of concern out there.
Okay, it’s time for me to rant. And nows a good time because I havn’t had enough coffee to make me a happy person yet. I have a sad but common story (think about how many times you’ve heard this same type of tale being told!) I am a girl that was tortured and abused in my childhood, not by some “transgendered freak” or gay person, but by men in my own family who were supposed to love and protect me. In my own home, the place I was supposed to feel safe. I am a girl who had children WAY too young because I knew no other way. I’m the mom who stood outside the bathroom door, taught my kids about stranger danger, questioned everyone who sat too close to my kids. I also married a man who abused my child, a man who was supposed to protect her and he did it in her home. Not one of the transgendered friends or gay men I’ve had in my life have ever harmed me or my kids, in any way. Society always has thier scapegoats. It’s all too easy to pick on and bully those that we don’t understand. Misdirected anger is a dangerous thing. All these people throwing a fit and bashing things they dont/ or care to understand is just a way to ignore the bigger issues. Take a look around your family… 1 out of every 3 girls and 1 out of every 5 boys will have been abused before they are 18. Most are by close family members. This isnt just a statistic. For a staggering number of people it’s a very painful and sad reality. And we choose to focus on a bathroom policy that seems to me to come from a made up threat. smfh!
Fortune Magazine wants to know if you support Target’s policy not to discriminate in bathrooms. Click on the poll in the survey. I clicked Yes. http://fortune.com/2016/04/28/target-transgender-bathroom-petition
Roger Wolsey, author, “Kissing Fish: christianity for people who don’t like christianity”
I posted this on Facebook a while back, as comments on other people’s (ridiculous) posts:
“I’m genuinely interested why people think it matters, in America. Men don’t talk to each other, in public toilets over here. We maintain a STRICT ‘no-peeking’ policy, too – if you catch someone looking at your dick in men’s toilet over here, you would be outraged… An ugly scene would ensue (or gay sex, if you were into that sort of thing). Women conversing with trans-women wouldn’t be able to check, anyway (they would use the private stalls); we don’t have male urinals in public lavatories here, you see… It genuinely wouldn’t matter, because we wouldn’t look.
Can you see the logic dilemma, here? Women wouldn’t know, at all. Men wouldn’t know, either. So if both sexes don’t know (and don’t WANT to know), it’s only the trans people that would be any the wiser.
And the other logic dilemma is that trans people don’t WANT to use a trans-toilet, either. There would have to be two trans toilets, too: one for male-female, and one for female-male. See? See how complex this gets, already?
I really don’t think you have thought this through, have you?
I just can’t see how you will police it, either. Are you going to have dick-patrolmen? With federal powers? “Show me your dick, or I’ll shoot!”
And what if: a post-operative trans-man (so to speak, a woman become a man) goes into a men’s toilet, and suspects there is a pre-operative trans-man hiding in there, with his dick out, and evil intent… Could he call for the dick-patrolman to arrest them, and then ask the dick-patrolman to show him all their cocks? I wouldn’t fancy having to do that, much. That would put me right off my aim, that would.
See? See the logic problems?
Women’s toilets don’t have urinals. Any trans-person using one, would have to use the private stalls (so no-one would be any the wiser).
And men shouldn’t know if they are surrounded by trans-people in public lavatories either, as long as they don’t go looking at other chap’s cocks. We take a dim view of that, in England! Men don’t talk to each other, in public toilets over here. We maintain a STRICT ‘no-peeking’ policy, too – if you catch someone looking at your dick in men’s toilet over here, you would be outraged… An ugly scene would ensue (or gay sex, if you were into that sort of thing). Women conversing with trans-women wouldn’t be able to check, anyway (they would use the private stalls); we don’t have male urinals in public lavatories here, you see… It genuinely wouldn’t matter, because we wouldn’t look.
Can you see the logic dilemma, here? Women wouldn’t know, at all. Men wouldn’t know (unless they are cock-wombles), either. So if both sexes don’t know (and don’t WANT to know), it’s only the trans-people that would be any the wiser… Maybe that’s what’s pissing people off: the fact that the trans-people know secret, special, hidden, toilet-things; things that the common man is not privvy-to, and have therefore become ethereal toilet-Druids…
And what if: a post-operative trans-man (so to speak, a woman who has become a man) goes into a men’s toilet, and suspects there is a male, pre-operative trans-man hiding in there, with his dick out, and evil intent… Could he call for the dick-patrolman to arrest them, and then ask the lovely-nice dick-patrolman to show him all their cocks, just so he could check? I wouldn’t fancy having to do that, much. That would put me right off my aim, that would.
And this whole ‘rapists in frocks’ idea, too… There’s always some sick bastard that would deliberately disguise himself as a woman to go a-raping anyway (didn’t Ted Bundy do that?) and somehow try to put the blame on transgender people … But you shouldn’t get suckered-into that argument, I think. The entire debate should be about whether trans-toilets should exist AT ALL.
The fact that trans-people already exist makes absolutely no difference to these ‘rapists in frocks’, as your tabloid press has it. Absolutely no difference AT ALL… They’re NOT the same thing. You can’t seriously believe that all transexual men are rapists, surely? Just because Ted Bundy wore a frock, as a disguise?
I just think that you should all just JUST BE NORMAL in America, and stop staring at each other’s cocks. I’m sure it can’t be good for a growing lad, to be staring at men’s cocks in toilets… He would grow-up all twisted, and wear frocks, even though he wasn’t a transsexual.”
I’m pretty sure it makes no difference whatsoever, to the majority of Target boycotters.
*STANDS UP AND APPLAUDS*!!!
Gretchen, what a well-written, well thought out letter. You have so articulately voiced what I’ve been trying to say about this issue yet could not find the right words. Thank you so much for taking the time to give voice to millions of people’s thoughts. I applaud you!
Bravo!!!
Your hysteria is showing.
Then you chose not to see the indignation. There have been many people supporting all of these causes and we rightly supported each of them. You may feel that these other causes have been tossed aside or lessened but that is not the same as what you declare in the article that we weren’t even concerned. If I chose to take a moment to reflect on one issue that does not mean that I have dropped or have dismissed all other causes. It just means I took a moment to reflect on another cause before resuming with support of victims in other causes.
Cue slow clap.
I’m a little confused. I guess I see the whole open bathroom policy a little differently. I don’t see it making things more dangerous I see it as an opportunity to keep a closer eye on our loved ones. If a mother or father now has the opportunity to escorts their opposite sex child into a public restroom instead of having to wait outside isn’t that safer? Besides if you have ever grown up in a big family you have used a unisex bathroom your whole life.
ILL JUST LEAVE THIS HERE
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/christopher-jessica-hambrook-serial-rapist-sexually-assaulted-and-terrorized-women-after-being-placed-in-toronto-area-womens-shelters/
Thank you
But aren’t you also just as bad with what your discussing, focusing on the others and judging just as they are? So what makes you any different than those you are against? Get pulled into discussions and give your opinion and see that your being pulled in just as they were.
Gretchen Kelly, Just Dropped the Mic…
And where are they now with Trump who raped a 17 year old gal and has many HR harassment cases and shares similar sentiments. Many people boycotting are Trump supporters. Sheer hypocrisy.
You people amaze me. Do you know how many years transgenders have been dressing & using the bathrooms of the gender they identify with? No you don’t. Not your wife, daughters or sisters were raped or abused, what makes you think it’s going to happen now?
Just because the media, government, cities, etc. suddenly publicize it you think it’s going to happen? Wake up! Gretchen makes a good point & I can tell you for a fact that I have been in the restroom with a male dressed as a female many times.
Grow up and start fighting the real injustices against your wives, sisters, daughters, etc.
Reblogged this on Spark! and commented:
An exceptional post on the artificiality of outrage by conservative voices against made-up “dangers”:
Target’s new policy is an open invitation for any sexual pervert to enter any restoom in their stores regardless of gender status. There is no protection against this happening. There are only about five hundred thousand or so transgenders in America.However, there are millions of perverts. It’s early in the process. Give it some reasonable time, six months or a year, and then we’ll have solid evidence of whatever consequences come from Target’s new policy.
In the meantime, Target’s stock has dropped almost 6% since the boycott began. It’s not only the anti-Christian, leftists liberals who can have an impact through boycotts.
I am struggling with your logic here. Washrooms are still equipped with stalls, correct? And seriously, MILLIONS of perverts? Really? I think your argument falls flat on the weight of its own silliness, frankly.
Oh, and by the way, there are one hell of a lot of us pro-Christian leftist liberals in the world. I suspect there are more of us than there are of you right wing pro-Christian intolerant bigots. How do I know this? Jesus was a hippy, left wing liberal too. After all, he fed people for free, let them follow him for free, and never asked anyone for anything to be part of his church.
Don’t believe me? Read the gospels. Seriously. and yes, I have been to bible college, and yes it was a good one, and it was conservative, and yes I have an advanced degree. So if you plan to attack my intelligence or my education don’t bother.
The entire market is down. Good Lord.
As another blogger commented, this is too good to add anything. I am reblogging this to: https://sparkpolitical.org/
Jeff
Where was your outrage at the silent masses when our number of homeless veterans is staggering.
avg, 22 vets a day commit suicide. One just recently set himself on fire in front of a VA clinic.
Where have YOU and the American People been for the past 25 years while our military continues to fight, die and come back maimed to a defunct VA system that I knew from personal experience was defunct since the 70s.
Why is it that somewhere around >2% even serve.
Why are we still fighting a way since 1990? My Son and NOW MY GRANDSON could be fighting in the same shit hole. You fight so future generations don’t have to. WTF.
What I was doing was carrying the burden for a blind, mentally checked out america, since the 70s. when I was asked to leave a pizza joint because I was in uniform. By the way, I was returning from a Military Funeral where I’d just buried my room mate.
I believe rapist should be castrated, child molesters should be hunted down and executed in a public square. I believe the catholic church in american should be “de-listed” as a religious organizations until ALL records are turned over to the FBI and Justice department. I’d put out a warrant for the pope and if he set foot in America I’d bring him in for questioning.
SO I am asking YOU, what have you been doing? I’m not hiding behind an all inclusive term and I’m not jumping on a “current” topic so I can get a lot of atta girls.
One aww shit, wipes out a 100 at a girls
So try and follow this logic.
There are sick and dangerous people in the world. Yes? Shouldn’t be too hard of a conclusion to reach since YOU listed them.
So since PEOPLE know this, AND THEY KNOW WOMEN are targeted. They are voicing there concern by boycotting a store who further puts women in danger. YES it does, if ONE CHILD IS MOLESTED that’s one too many and it’ll be on Targets head. Just like it’s on the government and the liberals head’s who release a rapist and then they commit another rape. People who think like that make me sick, some sick bastards penis has more value that our wives and daughters. NOT IN MY WORLD.
So, from what I can tell you’re not solving the problems you outline. Level 1
You’re not even involved in the boycott, or trying to do anything about it. Level 2
You’re somewhere around Level 3, which is where liberals live (feels good, doesn’t solve anything just makes ME, the individual feel good by taking the “higher road”) WTF that means to them.
So IF you’re actually involved in solving ANY one of the problems you mention then I’ve miss read you. To me you come across like a self center, condescending brat.
Jeff: You’ve seen and experienced horrible things. But you may protest too much.
Sorry, but your ignorance is glaring. No well-informed, rational mother would prioritize men like Paul Ray “Paula” Witherspoon — twice-convicted for sexual abuse of minors and current “transwoman” — over her own children or herself, for that matter. There are thousands of registered sex offenders who are also frequent (daily) cross-dressers or self-professed or professionally-diagnosed “transwomen”. Don’t you dare post another lie about this topic until you have fully and honestly informed yourself about what you’re advocating and enabling to be unleashed on our girls.
Both my son and my daughter are trans. I can assure you that neither pose any danger to your wife, your kids, or even yourself. And if anyone, man or woman, were to speak to or attempt to assault either of them for being who they are had better have a much better right hook than I, big talker.
Question for those bible-thumpers currently spewing their ignorance all over the rest of us: Doesn’t it worry that more men of the cloth have committed molestation against children than any trans person? I’d like to hear your thoughts on that, please.
This thread of comments has now grown laughingly hysterical.
This is fantastic, except for the error in this sentence that changes entirely what I think the author means. “I’m talking to you… the people who have *no* issue with sharing a bathroom with LGBT people.” I think you’re talking to people who DO have an issue sharing the bathroom. Am I mis-reading this?
Yes, the author’s context indicates that she is addressing the less crazy folks, aka moderates (I still think that’s too generous a term, but I’m sure they think they’re moderate, as some of their best friends might be LGBT).
As a childless auntie and child care worker, I amen’d every line of this! And I’m also now following you (on your blog, not in a creepy way 😉 )
THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS!!!! Just WOW!! Sharing to FB now.
Riddle me this…… people are unfortunately like animals its part of the human condition. You have predators and prey. If a Gazelle were to remove its antlers and hooves thinking that the Cheetah would just be okay with it and not change its hunting habits what do you think would happen? Do you think that the Cheetahs would start targeting the Gazelle more instead of rabbits and other lesser creatures? If you really think that sexual predators or people that aren’t fond of shared bathrooms are going to take this as an opportunity to create problems you are under estimating the evil in human beings. My family’s right to privacy in a bathroom does not stop just because somebody is confused on if they have a penis or not. People need to understand that liberals push this stuff and its a pebble here a pebble there and soon trans people will be able to have access into women’s locker rooms in schools and so on. YOU say NO WAY but this is how it was about gays getting married and forcing us to accept this as normal and not a mental disorder. You have to understand how liberals always chip away at your liberties and constitutional rights!! The agenda is to normalize all the immoral things and say they are okay. BOYCOTT TARGET!
Why can’t you men control yourselves?! We are not feral; we have millennia behind us to have worked out our base instincts. I hate to quote Pat Benatar, but stop using sex as a weapon. Think with your brains and not your dicks.
The Charlotte law allows entrance into locker rooms and other areas now. Not just for trans, but any gender expression. I’m not even sure what gender expression is as its separate from all other classes. NC took out the state buildings and schools from the Charlotte ordinance as they have no oversight in those areas.
I seriously can’t believe what I just read. You are everything you claim to hate.
I personally can relate to A LOT of the victimization that you write about, yet I pull myself up and keep on going.
I’m a conservative woman who believes what the Bible says and lives a Christ-Centered life to the best of my flawed human way.
I believe in the family. I believe in the right to own a gun. I believe in less government and the generosity of people who would have more of the government would take less from us.
I’m a single mom of six and yet NOT on any type of welfare and living debt free on a BUDGET.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. At. All. I won’t be voting for Trump either because he doesn’t represent my values.
I would never vote for anyone who thinks killing the preborn is acceptable.
I’m an adoptive parent who lives and breathes for my God and my family. I’m serving and giving.
I don’t say any of this to boast. I say it because I know so many people just like me who are constantly being judged by people like you who take one topic and then it into a political fanfare and relate it to one hundred different topics and accuse others of not caring about injustice.
You don’t know me and you don’t know the people you just offended. Most won’t even bother to respond because they’re busy serving and protecting the family unit.
I am boycotting Target because of their business model. I’d rather spend my money in places where I think my children are safer. If that bothers you, then I ask…who is judging who here?
I’m personally fed up with being bullied by the progressive liberal media and it’s overreaching agenda. It’s time that we conservative Christians take a stand against these malicious, accusatory, judgemental attacks by people who want blog traffic or to stir the liberal pot.
Let’s hope Mother of the Year here isn’t also Mother of the Queer, for the children’s sake.
If society keeps making mental illnesses like homosexual behavior a normality, it will, sadly, probably happen. Some kids nowadays are becoming gay because they feel it is what we are SUPPOSED to be. If everywhere you look is gay people on tv, ads, in public and whatever… You have become what you hated about us straight people. The issue is that as far as human nature and Mother Nature are concerned, homosexuality is basically just a defect in the mind that stops the natural instinct of survival and procreation. Any species that become fully homosexual will not survive to continue on generations. People always use “homosexuality has been observed in other animals” yes, I know, but that animal’s blood line ended with them because they didn’t try to make the other animals accept them or get upset when they didn’t and also didn’t attempt to change the laws of nature they all abide by.
And this vile, evil human being is exactly why all of us are so vocal against Christians, because all gay children men and women need to be protected from people like this. How terrifying to think that this person may come into contact with a gay chilld.
yeah sure… but she has a point…
nope, not a christian, sorry. but thanks for trying to judge/label me.
I don’t believe you for a second.
Gee, “darkshadow”… couldn’t quite bring yourself to add 666… or did someone beat you to it?
I’m going to go hang out in the women’s bathroom at target every Saturday…Saturday is when I identify as a woman. lets see how many complaints I get. Sunday is when I identify as a fire hydrant…going to stand in the parking lot and tell people its illegal to park near me.
Well, you’re wrong on a lot of levels. I always speak out. The only cure for a sex offender is death, so don’t say I don’t speak out against lenient sentences for sex offenders. I don’t care what gays or transgender people do, don’t care about gay marriage, kid with skittles…assuming you mean Trayvon..yeah, not a child… kid in the park. if you point a gun that looks real at a cop, you’re getting shot ( they received a call about a kid with a gun, pointing it at people) the kid walked toward a speeding cop car and pulled the gun out and pointed it at them but on to my main point ….I don’t want a stranger with male genitals in the bathroom with my daughter…I suppose I could always go with her and pretend I am her mother….and no, sorry to pop your liberal bubble about my beliefs. I vote republican because the left is MORE insane than the right, but I am an atheist. not everyone who disagrees with you is a Christian.
I am a Baptist and a psychologist. Homosexuality is not a mental illness. I am so sad that this woman uses her faith to both spew misinformation about gay people “mental illness” indeed! – and to smash the faith of others with her concrete interpretation of one of the world’s major religions. It drives me, as a follower of the teachings of Christ – FUCKING NUTS. I’m with you. I’m worried to pieces if this person comes into contact with a gay person, especially a child. I’ve called her a woman but who knows what gender “she” is. But here’s the thing. These nutty fundamentalists have hijacked religion just like the tea party has hijacked the Republican party (not that I was ever a fan of that party). Faith, or the study of any of the religions of the world, doesn’t have to be THAT kind of faith – but people like that send the rest of us fleeing from organized religion in droves, into the “um, I’m spiritual but not religious” category. I decided to take back my faith community by force from these wackos. There are liberal, progressive places to commune with others on a faith journey. Even Baptists – yes, American Baptist Churches are as liberal as they come. Mine marches at the head of our Gay Pride Parade every year. (The Episcopals try to beat us, but we get up early). Please consider that Jesus – whether he was “divine” or just a wise teacher, got himself killed just like all wise teachers (MLK, for example) by speaking truth to power. He was for the marginalized and disenfranchised. As we all should be. Not like those hateful hateful people who are posting here. Thanks for letting me vent.
So you don’t believe Jesus was the son of God? You believe he was a good teacher. If you really are a Christian then you would believe that also. Jesus died for me, he died for you, he died for everyone. But not everyone will accept him. Jesus is a friend of sinners (gay, straight, immoral, murderers, tax collectors, presidents, garden workers), and everyone are sinners. But he is NOT friends with unrepentant sinners. If you believe Jesus was a good teacher I am afraid you miss the mark of the gospel. I am praying the Lord softens your heart and changes you. God bless you.
Your definition of what it takes to be a believer is not the only one out there. Your definition of sin is not the only one. Jesus had FAR more problems with divorce then he ever mentioned with homosexuality. The bible condemns left handedness as a sin also. Oh and the list of foods you Probably eat… sharing a table with a woman on her period… all that stuff that you likely ignore that the bible calls sins.
THAT is what you took away from what they said? You clearly aren’t reading the entire post.
If homosexuality is a mental illness then so is heterosexuality. People don’t choose to be gay; they’re born that way. You are the problem.
Bad news for you, gay people actually support a larger framework for the survival of the human species. Gay people are meant to help raise the children that already exist, as humans often did not (and do not) have enough resources to raise the number of children we create, as human babies/children require more work to raise throughout our maturation than the babies of pretty much any other species. So in tribes, gay men who did not compete for mates and felt more incentive to help raise children were an invaluable resource to a tribe.
Fast forward to modern day, we already are on the brink of a population crisis. With automation growing so rapidly we are running out of jobs to support our quickly expanding population. We are also running out of sustainable resources. Humans need to stop. We haven’t yet reached an equilibrium where the older population can be supported by a dwindling younger population and enough jobs are automated to maintain our current cities with a declining number of people, but we’re getting there pretty fast.
Point is, we don’t need more breeders. We have MORE than enough breeders. Creating gay children is also ingrained into us. It often appears to result from a hormonal fluctuation in the womb and is the fault of the mother, not a mutation in the child. Fun fact, it generally occurs after the mother has already had multiple babies (I wonder why?!?!) Point is, as long as the mother who made the gay child has created older, straight siblings, then they will also create more gay children.
For someone who claims to not be religious, you sure to share religious people’s short sighted mentalities and lack of cognitive adaptability.
“Citation Needed”
http://m.psi.sagepub.com/content/17/2/45
^– This.
I mean to be pointing at Anon#1s post..
As a proud GAY MARRIED MAN tax paying I MIGHT ADD you sir are an ignorant bigoted moron ! You are BORN GAY just as you are blond haired or blue eyed ! NO ONE would CHOOSE to be treated like a second class citizen , teased and beaten as a child , called names and threatened as an adult ! I pray one of your children and or grandchildren are born GAY so you can EAT YOUR WORDS or lose your loved one forever because of your ignorance ! I am a tax paying AMERICAN and demand the EXACT SAME RIGHTS AND PROTECTIONS AS EVERYOTHER AMERICAN !!!
darkshadow kids are gay because they think it’s what they’re supposed to be? that’s a pretty weird idea. it seems like you’re bending over backwards to try and excuse bigotry
homosexuality is not a mental illness. it’s one normal variation on the basic human experience, and, while it’s not as difficult to be gay today as it has been at other times and in other places (when you could be killed for who you loved) it’s certainly not something a person choses because of the media. Being gay is hard and stressful, amongst other things because of folks like you, and many gay folks commit suicide because being targeted by people’s hate is more than they can handle forever
no one would chose to be hated by people who don’t even know them because the tv told them to do so
The Bible says to love your neighbor as yourself. Not your straight neighbor. Your neighbor. Period. God loves all of His children and that includes the gay ones who are perfect as He made them
My mistake. I meant that for the person who youbwere replying to. Your response was very well said. I’m sorry.
forgiven 🙂
You’re an Idiot. Period.
Dear Darkshadow667……Just one fact, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed homosexuality from it’s official Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in 1973. Homosexuality is not an illness. It’s nothing something you choose, you are born with it. Why would someone choose to be ridiculed or disowned by their families? They don’t choose, they are born that way.
Since when did being homosexual become a mental illness?
Please name these extinct homosexual species.
Rebecca, you sound like a person anyone would be grateful not to know.
I hope all of your children can stay brave, strong and safe until they are old enough to flee the damaging influence of your persecution complex.
So you automatically think her children will be like you? Not everyone hates their life and family.
Rebecca, I’m confused as to what any of your diatribe has to do with my article. And as for being bullied? You may want to check out the actual real definition of bullying. Articles that don’t agree with your viewpoint are not bullying. Saying that these things are bullying is really cruel to the people who are truly bullied. People who are beaten, tormented online, even killed. Actually, you know who is often bullied at higher rates than any other population? The LGBT population.
White male outrage and misguided fear.
So you really think that black people are picked on by cops your comments are a bunch of crap.
As far as the whole lgbt crap no they shouldn’t have any rights its wrong and the morals of a Christian founded country like America shouldn’t be abandoning the very things it was founded on to appease the few.
These sick and demented ppl being the lgbt community are the few and their cries shouldn’t even be heard they are the few their devil worshipping lifestyles shouldn’t control the majority period.
You need to be educated and kept away from children. Your ignorance knows no bounds. The demented people are Christians like you who demonize natural sexuality and cover for your oppressed rapist priests.
Really loudspeakerandlemonjuice. You have know idea what your talking about. Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah where God destroyed the city with brimstone and fire?
Gay kids are the #1 group of kids who commit suicide because of people like you. They’re blood is on your hands and it terrifies me to think people like you come into contact with them. I hope you never parent a gay child, volunteer and come across a gay child or have anyone in your family who is gay because you’re going to hurt them.
*their
I have, and it was about gang rape. Not two men or two women falling in love. At one point in the Bible they called it “Inhospitality”. Basically if you were from out of town and you came there you got greeted with gang rape. Men on men, men on women, men on children. Soddom and Gommorah has nothing to do with homosexuality but I love how people that don’t even read the Bible try to quote it. Go back and read again. That’s a common misrepresentation but it is a lie.
Yeah, about that “read the bible” thing. I wouldn’t use the word “read” so much. More like had the bible interpreted.
Alas, I love the Bible and will let it answer your question. Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.”
The bible is fiction
Yeah I have and that was for premarital sex, not homosexuality, nor the existence of trans sexual people. You’d be going to hell for that, dumbass. As an atheist, I know more about the Bible than you. Here’s a study: http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey-who-knows-what-about-religion/
It’s supported by right wing Christian sites.
Except, Sodom was destroyed because she had an abundance of wealth, and refused to use it to help the poor and the needy.
Didn’t have anything to do with sexuality of any kind.
The sins of Sodom and Gommorah had nothing to do with being homosexual- They had turned their face from God and become selfish and inhospitible(like many people in the US today) Rather than treat visitors well, they attempted to assault them, violating common courtesy and decency.
Loudspeakerandlemonjuice….
You really don’t have a clue do you being gay or transgender is not natural it’s totally against God’s word and everything natural.
The Bible condones rape, incest, slavery, wife beating, and infanticide. Only a piece of shit degenerate would use that as a guidebook in their life.
Can you give me verses that condone rape, incest, infanticide or anything else you put up here? I challenge you to actually study the Bible and not cherry pick what you want out of it.
Sure. Since you clearly know nothing about your own holy book…
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.” (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
“So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives.” (Judges 21:10-24)
“They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men … Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded … Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.” (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
”
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
“Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Slaves, be obedient to your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. (Ephesians 6:5-8)
Let as many slaves as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. (1 Timothy 6:1)
Exhort slaves to be obedient to their masters, and to please them well in all things; not talking back; not purloining, but being obedient; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. (Titus 2:9-10)
As for infanticide: Matthew 2:16-18, Isaiah 13:8, Exodus 1:15, Psalm 137:9, 2 Chronicles 28:3 and Ezekiel 20:31. To note just a few. The Noah story is pro-murder, pro-abortion, pro-incest, and pro-infanticide. The story of Lot is pro-incest.
There are many stories where your shit God tells people to murder their own children as a way to prove their allegiance to him.
Wife beating: There is a clear contradiction in this, as with almost everything in the Bible. God says this:
Hosea 3:1 The Lord said to me, “Go, show love to your wife again, even though she loves another man and continually commits adultery. Likewise, the Lord loves the Israelites although they turn to other gods and love to offer raisin cakes to idols.” 2 So I paid fifteen shekels of silver and about seven bushels of barley to purchase her. 3 Then I told her, “You must live with me many days; you must not commit adultery or have sexual intercourse with another man, and I also will wait for you.” 4 For the Israelites must live many days without a king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred fertility pillar, without ephod or idols. 5 Afterward, the Israelites will turn and seek the Lord their God and their Davidic king. Then they will submit to the Lord in fear and receive his blessings in the future.
THEN:
Matthew 22:36-40
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Ephesians 5:25-30 (NIV)25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.
I Peter 3:7 (NIV)7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
8 Finally, all of you [husbands and wives /brothers and sisters ], be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.
Colossians 3:19 (NIV)19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
In case just talking about Lot and Noah weren’t enough.
Leviticus 18:6-18
Genesis 19:30-36 (Lot had sex and children with all three of his daughters)
Genesis 6:6-8, 7:1, 20-23, 9:1, 18-19 (Noah’s family and the incest that supposedly restarted the world for a third time).
Genesis 20:12 – And yet indeed [she is] my sister; she [is] the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. – Where Abraham married his sister, which is incest.
1 Corinthians 5:1 – It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
Leviticus 20:17
Reading is fundamental, bitch.
Show me the passage where your murderous God said trans people and homosexuals were evil or mistakes..
“a Christian founded country like America”
And there you lost any hope of actually being taken seriously. Sorry, you don’t get to rewrite history, regardless of how many time right wing politicians keep trying to.
Allow me to quote actual evidence:
“The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine.”
– Article XI, Treaty of Tripoli, Congress 1797
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion [including Christianity]”
– 1st Amendment, U.S. Constitution, adopted 1789, brackets mine
Knowing a bit of history helps here. See, back in 1789, the Framers of the Constitution were people who had lived as part of British society. At the time, the British head of state (the King) was also the head of the Church of England (Anglicans/Episcopalians) and had been for over 200 years (in fact, the Queen is still the head of the C. of E.). Moreover, bishops and archbishops in the C. of E. were often appointed to political office, including the Exchequer (that’s the guy who literally controls the purse strings, e.g. the treasury).
The Framers sought to avoid the same situation in the newly founded country.
The majority of the founding fathers were Godly men
Just because you want to deny it doesn’t make it true.
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson
Samuel Adams, First Chief Justice John Jay
Names synonymous with the spirit of our country
Founding fathers of the U.S.A.
Over 200 years ago they shook off the chains
Of tyranny from Great Britain, by divine call
Citing 27 biblical violations, they wrote the declaration
Of Independence with liberty and justice for all
But something happened
Since Jefferson called the Bible the cornerstone
For American liberty then put it in our schools as a light
Or since “Give me liberty or give me death”, Patrick Henry said
Our country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ
We eliminated God from the equation of American life
Thus eliminating the reason this nation first began
From beyond the grave I hear the voices of our founding
Fathers plead “You need God in America again”
Of the 55 men who formed the constitution
52 were active members of their church
Founding fathers like Noah Webster who wrote the first dictionary
Could literally quote the Bible chapter and verse
James Madison said, “We’ve staked our future on our ability
To follow the ten commandments with all our heart”
These men believed you couldn’t even call yourself an American
If you subvert the word of God
In his farewell address, Washington said, “You can’t have
National morality apart from religious principle,” and it’s true
‘Cause right now we have nearly a 150,000 kids carrying guns
To these war zones we call public schools
In the 40’s and 50’s student problems were chewing gum and talking
In the 90’s, rape and murder were the trend
The only way this nation can even hope to last this decade
Is to put God in America again
Abe Lincoln said ‽The philosophy of the schoolroom
In one generation, will be the philosophy of government in the nextâ€
So when you eliminate the word of God from the classroom and politics
You eliminate the nation that word protects
America is now number one in teen pregnancy and violent crime
Number one in illiteracy, drug use and divorce
Everyday a new holocaust of 5,000 unborn die
While pornography floods our streets like open sewers
Well then clean up the mess in your own churches. Christians get divorced 54% of the time and freely commit adultery via remarriage, something the Bible clearly prohibits. Churches are rampant with sexual dysfunctions and porn support groups and every single day, another conservative pastor or preacher is in the news for sexually abusing children, having affairs or something else grotesque. And yet you point the finger at “America”? Guess what, you are America! The filth is in your four walls.
The sad but true fact of the matter is that you can’t put your trust in people. People are fallen people will fail and do wrong. The numbers on divorce and all are horrifying coming from church people. The only thing that iI can say is that there are people that claim to be Christians and then there are the ones that really do practice what they preach also. Ultimately in a fallen world imperfect humans will fail that’s why when have to trust God fully because He can never fail.
Right, we’ve all heard it before, you’re not perfect just forgiven. Except you come onto a forum where this wonderful woman is holding you accountable for your actions against a vulnerable portion of our society who represents no documented harm to you , the opposition against her is hostile and degrading as Christians like yourselves talk about the problems “America” has as you distance yourselves from responsibility for them. How about this? Instead of reminding all of us of your excuse for your fallen nature, how about you demonstrate the integrity and humility that Christians are supposed to have in greater measure than anyone else (according to your beliefs) and actually showcase both in the conversation here? Or you can just continue to rail on her for being brave enough to bring up some important points while at the same time, giving yourself an excuse as to why you and your fellow Christians *are* a huge source, proponent and participant of every hurtful thing you just rattled off. Thank you.
Your reply is a 20 year old Carman song? Really?!?
Nice try, Chris.
However, your evidence is tenuous at best. I’ve read and taught the Declaration of Independence many times over the last 12+ years and have yet to find it citing Scripture (actually the document cites no sources). Second, Jefferson wrote the Treaty of Tripoli cited above. Third, Patrick Henry serves no purpose jn your statement. Fourth, sure Webster probably could quote chaptr & verse . . . so could I once upon a time (and I’m an atheist).
The reality is, from both government documents and the letters of the Framers, the country was not founded in Christian doctrine.
Two other points:
1) I’m glad you look at the 40s & 50s through your rose tinted glasses. They were a great era . . . for white male Protestants. For Jews, women, non-whites . . . well, they kinda sucked, what with all the lynchings, segregation, etc.
2) If your God can be prevented from existing in a school, then he’s a pretty pathetic deity. However, for the record, no one has removed your deity from schools, we’ve just said you can’t force others to worship your deity in public (state) schools because doing so violates the U.S. Constitution.
“In the 90’s, rape and murder were the trend”
Rape and murder always existed. 1) You’ve clearly forgotten the 1920s and 30s. 2) Rape is a subject that has only recently been discussed openly, however it has been going on throughout history, in fact one could argue that the U.S. was founded on rape (of indigenous peoples and slaves . . . like Jefferson’s slave, who bore him many children through rape, all of whom he owned as property and never acknowledged).
“America is now number one in teen pregnancy and violent crime”
First point: we’re also at the bottom of the heap in solid, fact based sex education. Second point: we’re also number one in poverty amongst industrialized nations (due in large part to conservative economic theories).
“drug use and divorce”
Drug use has always been present, to large degrees. The difference is that in the 1960s most drugs were made illegal for political reasons. Regarding divorce, hey, women can leave their abusive spouses, excellent.
“Everyday a new holocaust of 5,000 unborn die”
Nope. Something that’s not (biologically speaking) alive can’t die.
“While pornography floods our streets like open sewers”
Ah, so your issue with the OP is not LGBT, but rather sexuality and the body in general. Got it.
“Abe Lincoln said ‽The philosophy of the schoolroom
In one generation, will be the philosophy of government in the next”
Very true, but it doesn’t help your point. Rather, it does explain in part why we’re moving forward as a nation and society into the modern world and looking toward the future. My hope is that we’ll make our way out of the 19th century and into the 21st century before I die.
Also, for what it’s worth, Playboy was founded in 1953 and took off kn popularity to become a multimedia empire. So much for those lily white 1950s, huh?
Further, the first thing the Victorians (late-1800s) did when the camera was invented was . . . create pornography with it (though they did not invent pornography, that pre-dates Christianity, arguably it pre-dates Judaism).
They weren’t but they also wrote against religion and politics mixing. You need to go back to third grade.
I love it when some newly-minted college grad (assuming they did) attempts to regurgitate the spun teachings of their Mephisto shoe-wearing bearded professors. Let’s agree to the idea that this nation isn’t technically founded in Christianity. In so doing, tell me what precisely all the references to “God,” “our Creator” etc mean? The real history is that the ONLY reason Christianity isn’t the national religion is because of negotiation with the colonies to unite to get documents signed off on. Period. The backlash of attempting to do that on the heels of escaping a forced “religion” in the Church of England would have been a non-starter. But if you really believe the vast majority of the Founders weren’t fervent believers you really should read more.
Because they were theists which is taught in every American history class, dear.
Thank you Joe at least someone else sees the truth also.
Heh.
Sorry, Joe, try again.
B.A. in English & History (2000)
– almost minored in Religious Studies
M.A. (2004)
PhD (2008)
I’m willing to bet my background in history (and theology, really) is rather stronger than yours.
Oh, and that B.A. . . . it came from a Presbyterian college.
Devil worshipping, lol….you sir are a moron . BTW our country was not founded on Christian beliefs, it was founded on separation of church and state. No one cares if you practice your religion, by all means please do but don’t use your religious beliefs to justify your hate. I sure remember you same Christians using this same argument to justify slavery, or to hold women from gaining any kind of equal rights in our country. I grew up in the church, I have read the Bible and now come to the conclusion that some things in it are just common morality ways to live your life but many things have outlived there usefulness. …
Typical liberal or democrat reply in an argument to start calling names and bullying when you know what you are saying is ridiculous. If you grew up in chruch like you say you should know better than that. If that’s true you were taught right and wrong and somewhere deep down inside you know that this whole gay and transgender crap is exactly that it’s not natural or right period. You can’t call yourself something you’re not this whole giving into what people feel at the moment crap is really getting us to bad places. By tha way the majority of the founding fathers were Godly Christian men. America was founded on the Principles of God and the Bible.
I am a direct descendant of John Adams, an actual founding father and our 2nd President. He was a Congregationalist, as am I. The first church built on this continent was a Congregational Church. It was the first church to come out against slavery. The first to ordain a woman. And the first to openly marry LGBTs. Christianity does NOT have to mean close-minded idiot, though many adherents are. This country was founded on the separation of church and state regardless of how the individual framers identified. It was of utmost importance that religion did not get codified into the Constitution. It doesn’t matter how many times you pretend what that document says versus what it actually says: it will NEVER say that this nation is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, Druid, Wiccan, Rastafarian, Fundamentalist, Voodoo, Spaghetti Monster or anything else. You fundies should be grateful because our nation would never choose your version of “Christianity” (false and twisted version that does not resemble the teachings of Christ as it is apparently based on hate). But our nation allows you to exist and worship anyway. It also allows you to pee in bathrooms across this great nation right next transgendered people because THEY HAVE BEEN THERE ALL THIS TIME. Did you think they just started to exist? Where on earth did you think they’ve been peeing all this time? How many times have they attacked you in the bathroom? Never? Imagine that.
Congrats on being rrelated to a racist murderer who wore wigs, heels, and makeup.
Wow! Just Wow! Wigs yes… as most men did of his age at that time. But “racist murderer”? Adams? The man who kept a lid on the “quasi-war” against France? Are we talking about the same universe? The man who wrote these words in 1819?
“Every measure of prudence, therefore, ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of slavery from the United States.
“I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in such abhorrence, that I have never owned a negro or any other slave; though I have lived for many years in times when the practice was not disgraceful; when the best men in my vicinity thought it not inconsistent with their character; and when it has cost me thousands of dollars of the labor and subsistence of free men, which I might have saved by the purchase of negroes at times when they were very cheap.”–Works of John Adams, vol., p. 380.
Like many of the presidents, John thought slavery was not right, but still had slaves, and was a racist. He had a slave named “Surry” in 1765. A gift from his cousin Samuel. You need to look a little further and not take their words at face value.
Confusing the facts… and the cousins… It was Samuel that recieved the slave…. who he promptly freed but took in as a de facto member of his extented family ( a common practice, as freed women would like starve on their own in racist America).
https://foundersandslavery.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/samuel-adams-a-different-view-on-slavery/
I stand corrected then. We were taught that Sam.git the slave as a gift and then gifted her to John in his will.
Wait a minute, in a comment below you just thanked someone for “pointing out the truth” for speculating that a commenter was a “newly-minted college grad (assuming they did) attempts to regurgitate the spun teachings of their Mephisto shoe-wearing bearded professors” and you’re now actually claiming you’re being “bullied”? As you just cheer someone who attacked the education of someone else’s without even knowing it? Wow, the cognitive dissonance of Christians is stunning, you are gross.
Yes, the church that steals money, rapes children, and teaches that it’s acceptable to beat your wives if they speak out of turn. What a fantastic place.
That’s not the church I belong to. I belong to the church that teaches morals, serving, sacrifice, giving, and we as the body of Christ are making a positive impact as best we can in a fallen world.
Every church is the same. They were created to funnel money from illiterate fools (look it up. The point of church was to pay a fine and then sit while some old man read you his interpretation of the Bible).
Do you do background checks on all of your church employees?
There is no fallen world, and churches aren’t really impactful in assisting any community. There are facts supporting this statement.
Oh just stop it. I’m a Baptist. You are hateful as they come. Jesus would be ashamed. He was for the disenfranchised, the downtrodden and the hated. Man.
Was this directed at me? Jesus commanded us to care for the orphans and the widows….they are downtrodden. How many people here are doing that?
A Christian Founded country? PLEASE do some research.
Washington, Adams, Jefferson. Ben Franklin. NOT CHRISTIANS. the US Was Not Founded on any religion.
That very concept is what America wascreated to not be. You will not find God, Jesus or Christianity in ANY part of the Constitution. Freedom of Religion. Separation of Church and State. Those ARE found there and were what was a big part of founding this country.
So you and all of your righteous bigoted born again ignorant cronies need to understand that, first and foremost.
See that’s the thing. America was founded on religious FREEDOM. Not christianity alone….
Are you any better for judging people that protest without insulting other people’s beliefs? You can’t dictate what someone feels lead to protest and expect them to be more passionate about another situation that has similar roots, or their wrong for voicing an opinion about this one. It’s really easy to criticize as way to silence voice. We can all be extremely dramatic and use whatever we can grasp to back our beliefs. That goes for both side of the debate. If you are trying to make one feel so bad about their stance that you silence their voice then to me that is a form of bullying. We all know there a different degrees of bullying. No one is comparing, or saying it’s even close to the bullying that happens to ppl that are transgender. However, it can still be considered a form. Allow all ppl to express them self without telling them what they should be more concerned with as opposed to them making their on decisions.
I sincerely pray to God that you will never have gay children. That is a terrifying thought, your victimization is duly noted and the extremes that you go to in order to redefine “bullying” because you are getting called out here and held accountable is sickening. It’s like Christians have become the most thin-skinned, self-absorbed narcissistic people on the planet.
If any of my children are gay, I will love them just the same. Just like I love my special needs children that the liberals say should have been aborted. Just like I love my child conceived in rape that the progressives say doesn’t have a right to life. I would love a gay child just as much as I love my children who aren’t the same race as me.
Why is it that if a Christian comes forth with an opinion, we are viciously attacked, called names, deemed intolerant, ignorant, and bigoted.
I have seen transgender people in the women’s room. I’m against a policy that will give men liberal access the women’s facilities.
Any article that is the opposite side of way you posted is always viewed as such. So why is it hard to accept that others feel different? It seems that As long as we are pro LGBTFDQ then our views and opinions are valid.
Gretchen, you know which group of women suffers the most domestic abuse? The ones in same-sex relationships, at the hands of other women.
Oh I’d love to see some data on that Joe. Put it up for all of us to read!
Yeah, that is NOT true at all. I used to work at the shelter for battered women and our training involved a whole lot of stats, and no, most crime against women, ALL crime against women, is from men they are involved with. Period. The number 1 day to beat your wife is superbowl Sunday. Just some facts.
WRONG.
You dumbass homophobe.
http://www.safehorizon.org/page/domestic-violence-statistics–facts-52.html
Nice.
It’s succinct and appropriate. 😆 Why would anyone in their right mind extend niceties to bigots? Think. 😉
“Stirring the liberal pot.” If I had a dollar every time somebody said something like this, I’d be rich. People like Ms. Rebecca fling the word “liberal” out like it’s an insult. Frankly, I bear it like a badge of honour, mostly because I’m not like her. It’s funny, I never say crap like “stirring the conservative pot” whenever somebody says something I disagree with. *sigh* On a brighter note, very well written piece, Gretchen.
Rebecca, I could not have said it any better than you just did. As I was reading her blog, I could see right through the author , The author brought up children being killed by cops and saying it was all the cops fault. The author is part of a bigger problem than any bathroom issue.
Thank you
If you are a Christian woman than act accordingly…Jesus and God are love….God creating everyone equally…Gay, Straight, Black, White Green and Purple so stop your bull saying your a good Christian….you judge and condemn and that is not being a good Christian.
Mmm, careful. Judging and condemning are not the same as disagreeing and calling out lies for what they are. I get you think saying those things might make some Christians shrink back, but not those that know truth doesn’t revolve around one’s choice of words.
Exactly
There you go….assuming I don’t love people who are different from me.
I’m amazed at how the liberals come out attacking even though I didn’t say one mean thing in my original post. This is ALL about furthering an agenda.
Rebecca, How does owning a gun relate in any way to being a Christian. Can’t find in the Bible where Jesus says “shoot to kill”. Conservatives who try to find a correlation between believing in Christ’s message and thinking it’s ok to kill anyone, has missed the message, but only completely. Gretchen’s message was one that absolutely everyone should read. Her facts are right. If only people would stop believing one stop media networks like Fox and MSNBC or CNN. EVERY ONE of them has an agenda and that is to keep you watching and believing what they say, even if it means only presenting partial facts. And, Cathy is right, you act as if being liberal is a bad thing, because that’s what you’ve been told. Liberals created this country. Liberals left a country where they were being oppressed and now Conservatives are trying to oppress the rest of us. THANK YOU Gretchen for the well written and timely article.
Anonymous,
God clearly gave us the right to protect ourselves. We are not allowed to kill others for our selfish intent.
But by your logic, you should be perfectly willing for a bad guy to come over to your house with a gun and shoot you and your loved ones and you just have to except it.
And by your logic God would pat you on the back for being a good christian and not shooting back to protect yourself or your loved ones.
I think we both know who isn’t getting it.
Josh
“And by your logic God would pat you on the back for being a good christian and not shooting back to protect yourself or your loved ones.”
That’s not Anonymous’s logic . . . that’s the Bible. Literally. Check out the Garden of Gethsemane in the Gospels, e.g. where a disciple stabbed a Roman soldier to death and was reprimanded by Christ, who healed the soldier. One of many passages of the New Testament that condemn violence.
But, don’t take my word for it, go look yourself, after all I’m merely a non-believer who has actually read the darn book.
Sorry, but the disciple you are talking about is Peter. He didn’t stab a Roman soldier to death. He cut off the ear of the high priest’s servant. You are correct that Jesus did reprimand him for it and healed the person. The reason behind it? it wasn’t about not defending anyone. Jesus was sent to die for the sins of the world.
Not according to the Bible sitting on my bookcase, that I looked at not too long ago. But, I suppose that’s the problem you have when you base your argument on a text that’s been translated so many times as to render its accuracy useless.
Side note, as I said, one of *many* examples.
Looks like you better re-read it.
Been there, done that. Many times. And there’s nothing in the New Testament to support the original comment.
Joe, I don’t see the relationship of this discussion to the original issue (the original article about transgender and bathrooms and these moronic laws), and I’m not going to get into discussion about the Bible, the Torah, the Koran etc. simply because it is irrelevant. From all the research I have done on religious texts, I have to agree with Brent. The text was translated so many times from so many sources that it leaves a huge room for interpretation. Personally I participated in a Bible studies in a Christian group were the leader of the group, after reading a particular passage would tell us how we supposed to feel about it! A source this person was concerned it was no interpretation, he was right and everyone else was wrong or needed to study more. As you can see this example shows that we cannot translate English into English, but some of us claim that they know exactly what it says in the Bible when it was translated, correct me if I am wrong, from Hebrew!
As for the issue at hand: the idiots in their bathroom laws, I’d like to offer a different solution (I would like to claim it as my own but I can’t, I read this in one of the other posts on the subject) let’s close all the bathrooms, not only at the major retail facilities or gas stations or ballparks airports airplanes…… Let’s all urinate and defecate in public so there would be no possible way of mistaking whether you are a man or woman this would most certainly eliminate the problem and the bulk of discussions. Because the only other alternative is to hire someone to check and make sure that you are using “correct” bathroom by checking your genitals on the way in.
* as far as
I’m with you. The essence of turn the other cheek if you ask me. I love how everyone’s all quoting scripture in service of their own polarized mean ol agenda. Bless you honey. xo
I realize that this is a complete tangent from the article, but Josh please give me the scriptures that you are using to base your belief that God clearly gives us the right to defend ourselves. We are supposed to model ourselves after Christ. Did he ever physically defend himself? When he was in the garden and the soldiers came to arrest him, Peter tries to defend him Jesus stops him. When Jesus is dying on the cross, he says forgive them for they know not what they do. Only one of his disciples died a natural death. The rest were killed in various ways. There isn’t any mention of them defending themselves. If someone kills me, I will get to spend the rest of my existence hanging out with God. If I kill them, I may have sentenced them to hell. I actually am not against people owning guns and I was married to a cop for a long time. I’m only posting this because I don’t believe your comments are Biblically based.
Reading through the New Testament, I haven’t found anything so far. Christ didn’t, but He was meant to die for our sins. Peter didn’t, Paul didn’t, not a single Christian (as far as I remember) in the New Testament defended themselves against physical abuse and beatings up to death.
Th e Bible does say that we are supposed to take care of our families and if we don’t then we are worse than the unbeliever. I think that that verse is meant for us to be taking care of our families in any way that we need to whether it be providing food…emotional stability…protectiin against people that want to harm them. I don’t think that God would want us to stand by and let our families be hurt our killed because we don’t want to us the necessary force to stop the threat
Sorry, but the early church, starting with the apostles didn’t believe that. Even Jesus rebuked Peter in the garden for cutting off the ear of a soldier. Granted “he was standing in the way of Jesus fulfilling his destiny” but he wasn’t really, if we are being honest. Christ was setting a nonviolent example.
During the 2nd and 3rd century persecutions, there are no examples I found during my research of the church ever fighting back. They clearly did not believe that it was the right thing to do. And yes, that includes fighting to protect their families.
Seriously, we either believe in heaven or we don’t. The early church did. So they believed a better place awaited them. This whole notion of fighting “to defend the family” is a very modern one, and a distinctly American one as well.
Of course, the pro gun, pro ‘Merica folks will attack this. But without scripture, and likely with ad hominem arguments.
Draw your own conclusions.
Wait i thought one of the commandments was to NOT kill! … #6 to be exact.
The Bible also commands fathers to sacrifice their sons, and stone disrespectful children to death. Strange way to care for your family.
Just think those who target lets in the women bathroom that you are all outraged about, are the same ones in the bathroom with your little boys at other places.
Rebecca, haven’t you noticed that your conservative/christian rhetoric are the ones that drive good people to stand for all the minorities? You are the only country in the industrialized world that have this stupid laws and make a huge deal about it. I just recommend you, as the rest of the world does: Go to the bathroom, pee, wash your hands and leave.
Yup, quit reading this comment after she had to justify her notions by pulling out the Bible.
Puhlease lady.
It’s funny when people say transgender bathroom bills “keep their children safer” or that removing the “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” policies in the US Military were going to destroy the services. Guess what? There are ALREADY trans folk using the bathrooms of their gender. Have your children been attacked yet by a trans person? I doubt it (or you would have told your horror story here). So, why would those attacks or whatever start now? Your children (especially girls) are a thousand times more likely to be abused, harassed or raped by a heterosexual man than by a gay man, a lesbian woman, or any sexual preferenced trans person… and probably that heterosexual man will consider himself a devout Evangelical Christian. So, boycotting Target to keep your children safe is hypocritical – you should be keeping your children away from your local church, where statistically there are much more likely to be dangerous predators.
As for saying you’re following Biblical rules about homosexuality – you’re also being a hypocrite about that. You’re picking and choosing the rules you want to follow and leaving the others by the wayside – do you eat shellfish? The Bible says that God told you not to (Lev 11:11).. Do you wear a garment made from two different fabrics? GOd said not to (Lev. 19:19). Do you keep the Sabbath by not doing anything but resting? God told you not to (Lev 19:4). Do you round off the side-growth of your head or know anyone who “harms the edges of their beard”? God said not to (Lev 19:26). Have you ever cursed your father or mother, or know anyone who has? God says they should have been put to death (Lev. 20:8). WHat about adultery? Another death sentence demanded by God in Lev. 20:10. Sex during menstration? That’s a banishing, says Lev 20:17. There’s plenty more where that came from. If you’re going to ignore the rest of Leviticus, why are you so hung up with Lev. 20:13? You’re not a very godly person, obviously, as you’re ignoring 99% of the laws that God set down for you to follow.
There’s not one word about Christianity in the above letter, Rebecca. Unless it’s about the unholy monsters who use Christianity as an excuse to rape and molest children and not get punished for it. It’s about how politicians and Target boycotters are using the protection of women and children as an excuse to marginalize groups of women and children who are different than everyone else who need that protection just as much. You boycott Target because transgender women (Who are least likely to commit any sexual assault) are able to use the women’s restroom without incident. But what about politicians and catholic priests, celebrities, etc. among which there have been so many cases of rape and sexual assault, who can use any public restroom in any store? Tell me. If God is so important to you, as He is to me, why are you more dedicated to speaking out against gender and sexuality variance than to speaking out against rape and murder, sins much more offensive to Him? I am a transgender female. I know. I am going to hell. Don’t think that I don’t think of that as a possibility. i believe that I am on the path that God wants me on by living my life as a trans woman, but I can’t know for sure. None of us can. My point is that I have never, and will never ever do anything to anyone in the women’s restroom, except maybe say hello. But there are laws against me being in there in North Carolina, Mississippi, and Alabama. But there isn’t a single law in any state that forbids registered sex offenders from using any public restroom. Your children have nothing to fear from me or any woman trans or otherwise. But neither of us are more safe because of these laws. As a matter of fact, I’m terrified of Ted Cruz being elected and a national restroom law being passed. Because I was sexually assaulted in the fifth grade. I am at high risk for sexual assault and even higher risk because I’m trans. But nobody is doing anything to curb sexual assault. The issue isn’t at all with your Christianity, but with your apathy. Boycott Target all you want. But neither of us are safer for your doing so.
What would Jesus do? Hmm.. Would he own a gun too?
FYI… Judgy Christian… The Transgender have been using ALL bathrooms for decades now without the governments new signs…
You are one highly misinformed hate filled human I will pray for you
I cant believe anyone in this day and age people can spout that ignorant stance that somehow you are “protecting the family” by taking against your fellow human beings. Not at all what Christ taught. and not the message that should be passed on to your children who have to learn to live in the 21st, not the 18th century
I think Target will be better off without bigots like you.
No one bullies Christians. Christians bully everyone else. You want a Christian theocracy, you’re no different than those who advocate for advocate Islamic theocracy. You too want to silence anyone who doesn’t agree with you. How about Christians start remembering your religious freedom is the right to live they way you want, not the right to force it upon every one else.
Just another bigot hiding their head in a bible…move along.
You’re an idiot.
The problem with a lot of these comments is the message of tolerance. Countries like the United States need to stop tolerating because it leads to hate and resentment. Everyone needs to start accepting people for who they are and stop hating. I am a young practicing RC who is tired of anyone being treated any differently for what they believe, act, do, or who they are. Their personal lives are actually none of your business. If everyone would follow the golden rule of treating others like you would like to be treated the world would be a lot happier place.
If has really sadden me to see someone like Rafael Edward Cruz “Ted” rise in the ranks for the candidacy of president. This is showing how backwards of a direction our country is headed in regards to human rights and equality. It is absurd how differently men and women are treated in the USA. America needs to wake up and realize the sexist 60’s are over. There needs to be a bigger push from the government to treat women equally along with other groups that are been being underpaid for the same work all because they are not a white male. This is a hard task when women only make up 20% of congress and senate.
Well, you’re wrong on a lot of levels. I always speak out. The only cure for a sex offender is death, so don’t say I don’t speak out against lenient sentences for sex offenders. I don’t care what gays or transgender people do, don’t care about gay marriage, kid with skittles…assuming you mean Trayvon..yeah, not a child… kid in the park, well if you point a gun that looks real at a cop, you’re getting shot ( they received a call about a kid with a gun, pointing it at people) the kid walked toward a speeding cop car and pulled the gun out and pointed it at them.
But on to my main point ….I don’t want a stranger with male genitals in the bathroom with my daughter…I suppose I could always go with her and pretend I am her mother….and no, sorry to pop your liberal bubble about my beliefs, I vote republican because the left is MORE insane than the right, but I am an atheist. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Christian.
You “pull yourself up and keep going”. Meanwhile, the rest of us are fighting for those who can’t fight for themselves. Pat yourself on the back lady, clearly you think you’re doing a good job. But you’re not. Try thinking about others, not just yourself.
You are misguided idiot. Poke your head up out your holier-than-thou bible bubble and see what really going on some time. Target. Unsafe? Spare me.
Have you ever been sexually abused and then raped since an early age? No I don’t think you were or you would not have the guts to say what you just did, so don’t you dare judge someone that has. So if you are pissed because someone signed petition with their chicken scratch, then you can kiss my ass. I have the freedom to say what I want. So before you go to bed tonight, put your child in the place of one of those children and that was just sexually abused or raped and see how you feel then.
Actually I was and I have written about it for another website twice. I was very young and it didn’t happen in a public bathroom. Sexual Assault Victim’s Rights groups have come out very strongly stating that they do not agree with using women and rape and abuse victims as the reasoning for a law that encourages discrimination. If you click on the links (highlighted in red) you will see the articles I have linked to that back this up. I have always been highly vigilant of my children in public places and public bathrooms. A Pro Transgender bathroom law will not change that and not put my children in any further danger. (Again, check out the articles. The stories going around on websites like Brietbart have been debunked.)
Most of the people who sexually assault are straight white men, not trans people. This has been studied.
Hello Anon! Gutless move by the way, but I get it. Putting your face where your mouth is can be hard.
I was abused. Yes indeedy! I was abused at age nine. And I mean sexually abused. It was a trusted family friend who conned my parents. Oh and me. I didn’t even know WHAT SEX WAS at that time.
Guess what. My mom was sexually abused too as a child. By her cousin. And oh, he is now a Bishop of the Catholic Church. Even kissed various popes rings n’all. I know a LOT of women who were sexually violated as kids and they ALL WERE ABUSED BY PEOPLE THEY TRUSTED! Creepy, ain’t it? The possibility of sexual abuse in a public bathroom is really small. Ya know why? People keep turning up to , you know…PEE, so it’s a sucky place for a predator.
I have kids. And I don’t worry about them in a public rest room. The only thing I worry about it germs. Oh, and toilet paper.
That too!
You gutless coward, she’s talked about her molestation on earlier articles. People like you are so miserable.
Well said, The hypocrisy religious hatred now with this crap about bathrooms and trans. So far, nobody has been raped by a transgender in a bathroom. Typically, male molesters are heterosexual , but 90 percent of the cases molestation happens with someone you know. should not we try to fix REAL CURRENT PROBLEMS we actually have? Guns, crime, education, homeless, drugs, human rights, discrimination, etc? This country is so f*ck up… Agree with you; and this woman Rebecca as she calls herself a christian, can’t see where her values are in her comment.
Here’s what I say to them: 1) Trans people have been using bathrooms they identify with for a long time, and people don’t even know it. 2) This policy was probably put in place because these same people complained to begin with, so that the transgender people’s rights are protected. If you would only mind your own business… 3) Molesters are not always men, or “odd”-looking people; sometimes they are the most normal looking, most trusted people that have gained the family’s trust. 4) Why not go to the bathroom with your kid when you go to Target if you’re so afraid of your kids being molested? If you’re such a good parent that you worry so much about your kid’s safety, you shouldn’t be letting them go to the bathroom alone. 5) What’s next? Lesbians aren’t allowed to go to women’s bathroom? Non-Christians aren’t allowed within 50 feet of your child?
Reblogged this on bannon06.
pretending that something abnormal, is normal, doesn’t make it so.
True. Richie. It is abnormal for people to belittle and stigmatize male to female transsexuals who, by the way, are impotent and have reduced sex drive after several months on testosterone blockers and estrogen.estrogen. No, the rapists are the family friend, the congressman, the pastor, not the transgendered person.
Like its normal for people to be so obsessed with what is between someone else’s legs…..especially a strangers! Not quite sure what it is your are doing while in a restroom, but I’m sure as hell not obsessing nor even looking to see what is between other’s legs. It’s sounding like you are one of those perverts we all need to protect our children from!!
Reblogged this on Archie! DOWN! and commented:
Yes!
Sometimes, these men you’re so scared of sneaking into the bathrooms….are your own father. You spend your entire childhoid wondering what you and your mother did so wrong, to be hurt so much by the one man who was supposed to keep you safe.
I feel safer when I’m with a friend, if it happens to be a man…he walks into the men’s room and waits infront of the stall for me. Even though my dad is long dead and I’m all grown up, the nightmares that I survived still haunt me.
My dad molested me, he beat my mother and I, he hurt us deeply with his words. He tore us down and made us believe we were worthless. That there was no hope. No escape.
I now go to mental therapy because of him. I’ll never have children because he forced himself in me so young, he tore up my insides. The scarring I have is so bad, I can never have my own babies. A part of me was overjoyed at hearing this, the monster he was to me, he was obsessed with trying to impregnate me since I was ten…the sheer terror I may have had an inbred child always gnawed at me. I could let that go now, knowing it was imposdible.
Where is the help for those like me, instead of fussing about people who need to use a bathroom? I bet they didn’t know back when bathrooms were separated only by your place in society, there was far less danger to anyone? Opposite genders even bathed together without thinking about rape! How screwed up is that?
I am so sorry that happened to you. All I can say is that you are the most courageous person I have read about in a very long time. Truly. Thank you for writing what you wrote here. Because you are still here. And you are not nuts. And you have escaped him and even if you are still afraid, I don’t think you will be forever. Because you have the courage to write about it right here in the world. Thank you for that.
Reblogged!
Really? just shut up.
Oh my gosh! People are not upset about trans people using the bathrooms! People are upset about the uproar caused by requesting non gender specific restrooms! If this is such a gigantic deal then turn the family restroom into a unisex! Problem solved! You can stomp your feet all you want but it’s obvious you don’t care about both sides. If this is about feelings then why are one persons more valuable then another! In the last few years people find so much nonsense garbage to throw a fit about!! It’s the constant whining that is forming groups and alliances against each other! If you are not a simpleton then I think you can make your own decision. Your article was a little excessive about confronting issues WAY worse then transgender bathrooms! Maybe you should follow that judgement free attitude by being uhhhhhhhh judgement free
“Your article was a little excessive about confronting issues WAY worse then transgender bathrooms!”
You’re starting to actually get the point.
This isn’t about bathrooms, anymore than the anti-Civil Rights movement was about drinking fountains. Both are small scale elements of much larger issues.
Sexual predators come in all shapes, sizes and sexual preferences. To say that they don’t come as bearded men wearing dresses proves you do not know or recognize this fact.
No one wants to see women and children sexually abused. Your blog post is only relevant because of a lopsided view that certain people only see and fight for a popular political issue. Their voices, like mine, have demonstrated time and again that they don’t stand for injustice. Period.
When I got on the witness stand to be examined by multiple attorneys for the molestation and rape of my little sister by a *cross-dressing man*, it was one of the hardest and bravest things I’ve ever done in life.
Studies show that trans people don’t assault anyone in bathrooms. You need to read a book instead of normalizing molestation. Cross dressers don’t molest. Straight cis men molest and then dress up and lie and say they’re trans when the two aren’t related. You’re an idiot.
Hello 🙂 I’m so happy you wrote this piece. Thank you for sharing. I started to read the comments and had to stop almost immediately because I found myself horrified and unable to comprehend such nastiness. It takes a lot of bravery to speak out. I wish you peace. Have a lovely evening. 🙂
Single user bathrooms….
It sounds like you are saying that because society has not solved these myriad of problems that they are wrong for questioning/complaining about anything. It sounds like you are trying to shut them down because this is how they view a matter. Your fancy raging is a rabbit trail.
Reblogged this on worldsinthenet and commented:
A brief foray into the socio-political.
As I’ve said elsewhere, it’s not about restrooms any more than the 1960s movements were about drinking fountains.
I’m wondering if some of this stuff lately, like the Target restroom debacle, isn’t the straw that broke the camel’s back. Because all the other issues you mention are serious, neglected issues and you know how it is – sometimes it’s some trivial thing that puts people over the edge.
Where were you when all the babies are aborted?
Probably adopting all of the kids that the conservative christians refuse to adopt after they prevent the abortions. Or perhaps she was fighting for the money that conservative christians vote to take away from the organizations that will fund birth control from preventing unwanted pregnancy or perhaps she was donating money that conservative christians voted to take away from the organizations that help those in foster care or early education who are trying to support the babies that were not aborted. In other words, she was probably where most people who aren’t christians were and continue to be, actually helping the children once they’re born. If one of out of three families in every church in America adopted a foster care child right now? Guess what – no more kids in foster care. But we all know how much you really care about kids. You’ll never do it.
maybe you should stop making assumptions. First of all adoption and forteresse care is not as atteignable as you make it sound. If it were people wouldnt go to other countries to adopt.
Always excuses.
I have to wonder if those who are supporting laws such as North Carolina’s HB2 even have a clue what it says or the consequences of it!! All they are able to somewhat grasp is the fact that it would prevent places like Target from “allowing those deviants, queers & pediophiles from entering women’s restrooms” or so they think. Let’s face it, it had nothing to do with protecting women and children. They are simply being used in the propaganda as pawns to defend hatred and legislated discrimination! Here is what this knee jerk law passed due to people’s paranoid and irrational fears will actually do:
Please be patient because it’s very long!! 😡
It’s not about the women and children, it’s only a way to justify discrimination, hate and control. The women and children are simply being used in the propaganda to illicit an emotional response (no matter how irrational) to get more people to back the discrimination and hate!! With that said….
I just wish people would stop to think long enough to grasp what the NC HB2 law ACTUALLY does – which is exactly the direct opposite of what they believe it accomplishes. This law actually makes it EASIER for someone with ill intent to enter the restroom of their choice. NOW it will be LAW for people who do not even remotely resemble the designated gender on the door of that particular restroom to enter. The HB2 law forces grown men (by appearance) to use the women’s restroom. Forces grown women (by appearance) to use the men’s restroom. Therefore you will have no idea if that man is a transmale (female to male) or simply a biological man will ill intent!! Or vice versa. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?
What about non transgender women (straight or gay) who appear more “butch”? Guess we need a dress code to simply use the restroom. Stepford wife attire only. Ladies – no jeans, tennis shoes, baggy clothes, super short hair, etc.
Anti – discrimination laws concerning restrooms do not give anyone anymore freedom to enter a public restroom designated for the opposite sex. I don’t want to live in a world where I must show ID simply to pee!! Oh wait, IDs can be faked. Guess we need to institute “genital police” at the entrance of every public restroom to “inspect” each person and verify the “parts” they are peeing with. Sounds pretty silly doesn’t it? But that is the only way you are going to know 100% who has male and female parts.
Frankly I don’t care what is between the legs of the person in the stall (3 walls, door & latch) next to me. The only time I concern myself with what is between someone else’s legs is if I am considering allowing them between mine – which is not 99.9999% of the people in the restroom with me.
Pedophilia and rape are ALREADY ILLEGAL …..no need to create a law!!!
Bottom line you have 1 of 3 choices:
1) leave it as its always been and allow the transgender population to use the restroom of the gender they live as, dress as, identify as and would best blend in with.
2) keep North Carolina’s HB2 law and force people to use the restroom that matches their birth gender but is the complete opposite of the way they look, live, identify with. Therefore having what appears to be grown men in the ladies room and grown women in the men’s room.
3) Do not use the public restrooms or wait your turn for the family/unisex single restroom.
Neither of the two options prevent those intent to commit crimes in the restrooms from doing so. In fact, option #2 makes it even easier for the criminal to blend in without having to dress a different part!!
Sorry that is the simplest form it can be broken down to those who either can not read, refuse to read, or insist on remaining willfully ignorant on the topic.
How will the ridiculous paranoid nuts deal with trans men, big burly ones who are sexually attracted to women, will be required to use the ladies rooms under the law because they are bio women?Never thought of that did you, you false Christiand.Jesus would smack the crap out if you just like the money changers.Hate-filled fake Christian hypocrites!!
They say brevity is the soul of wit. If this is the case, your argument is the antithesis. Men and boys should use the men’s room; women and girls the women’s. It really is that simple. And if, by some fluke, folks lose sight of the fact that truth is an absolute (in this case gender) and want to believe or argue that truth is a matter of perspective, they are free to put question marks on both bathroom doors, and people who disagree are free not to frequent the locale. And yet, still not content with with transgender safe spaces in both bathrooms at Target, the OP would rail against all who have a difference of opinion.
The main point of the article is that, in the contorted logic of author, folks who think that folks should use the restroom that corresponds with their biological gender have been absent or silent through a host of other incidents or issues, i.e. “Where were you when a child was shot because his radio was too loud?” Excuse me? What does that have to do with Target bathroom policy, or ANYTHING else? Its as if to suggest that anyone who disagrees with cross dressing men using the ladies room HAVE to disagree with the OP on a host of other issues. Paint with a broad brush much? Do you crow loudly down at the hipster bistro about how open minded and tolerant you are? I happen to think boys should use the boys room and girls the ladies, like we all learned in elementary school. ANYTHING else you think you know about me, or indeed anyone who shares my opinion on this issue, is just speculation—your complaining about it just hollering into the wind. The beauty of free market capitalism is that we don’t have to shop there, so have at it and audios!
It’s about tossing every liberal social justice faux-outrage at the wall and hoping quantity is greater that quality when it comes to making an argument.
Your confusion Ms. Mommyblogger probably stems from the fact that the things “we’re quiet about” are less reality and more crap stuffed into your then-empty collegiate head. You see, most things that SJWs and Tumblr activists get upset about and wonder why nothing is done about them is simple: these things have to be based in reality first. Male entitlement? You showed your hand there.
Another loving comment from yet another loving Christian.
Joe. Do the cause of Christ a favour.
Shut the hell up.
Thanks.
I get the discomfort. I work at a store and when transgender or transvestite people (particularly men transitioning to women) come in the store, I try to treat them the same as everyone else but I feel uncomfortable. And you know what? That’s my problem. When I was growing up, I was uncomfortable being around gay people but I’ve outgrown that. I’ve worked with gay people all of my life and, really, I don’t give it a second thought anymore. I am hopeful I will outgrow my discomfort with transgender people because, like I said, it is my problem and I will be a better person for it. At the very least, I should not try to punish them for my discomfort. This bathroom issue is mostly about discomfort and punishment. I think this post pretty much sums up how the security issue is way overblown.
Apparently the “Christians” have never heard Matthew chapter 25, verses 34-40. They REALLY should become better acquainted with their own book. When an “evil” Pagan shows more love and compassion than they do, it can be very telling.
Hell no, I will not be silent. I will walk with transgender women into the restroom and support them. I will listen to rape victims and support them. I will argue that dress codes only teach girls that their education is not as important as a boy’s.
And I will support my LGBT friends and FAMILY- because it is the RIGHT thing to do. I did it this summer after a friend was assaulted in her OWN HOME.
I raised my voice then, I raise my voice now.
Target is right-
It’s cool and that you want to be a professional victim and all, but there is zero evidence that LGB, and T and Q and whatever other fucking letter or symbol you want to tack on to a now overly convoluted acronym, people are now or have ever been at personal risk in bathrooms to the point of needing their own ‘unisex’ bathrooms or wanting to use whatever bathroom for whatever gender they ‘identify as’. To claim otherwise is fearmongering.
To use a popular trope of your so-called movement; #Its2016, grow up and use the bathroom for the gender you were born as. And there’s only two genders. It’s called scientific fact.
Where were YOU?
When a Democrat congressmen suggest that you shouldn’t be allowed to carry a gun to defend yourself from rapists, because “you don’t know who you’ll be shooting at” and “that’s why we have whistles, and call boxes, and safe zones”
Where the hell have you been?
When a Colorado college suggested women should deter rapists by urinating, vomiting, and defecating themselves…instead of carrying a gun to defend themselves!
Where were you when feminists slutshamed a rape victim for coming out against neo-feminism?
The fact is, there has been no deafening silence for people living in the real world. For people like you who spend their fleeting days in echo chambers, however, it’s a different story.
Go cherry-pick more, I can do it too.
Well honey it’s time to read more science. You know, neuroscience. Oh, for example: http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full
or even this: if you want an easier read and something with color pictures.
Next time you start talking “science” then perhaps you need to read something current and peer reviewed.
Yes, I have a PhD. And I’m a woman.
Kisses,
YerkesDodsonCurve (it’s a math thing)
You ate all over the place. Why don’t you Xtians teach your men not to rape instead of arming yourselves with guns that statistically ate more likely to be used against you?
Take note that a conservative site posted this :
http://www.nationalmemo.com/the-person-youre-most-likely-to-kill-with-your-gun-is-you/
You clearly don’t read. Tie your tubes.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/06/26/2216781/transgender-bathroom-study/
“A new study from the Williams Institute confirms that transgender people face significant levels of discrimination and harassment simply when trying to use the restroom. The study focused on people who identify as transgender or gender non-conforming/genderqueer in the Washington, DC area and found that an overwhelming majority — 70 percent — had experienced some sort of negative reaction when using a bathroom. The study notes that this is in spite of the fact that DC’s enforcement regulations contain “the strongest language in the country in regard to gender-segregated public facilities” to protect trans people from just these sorts of issues
.
The primary experience trans people reported was verbal harassment, with 68 percent reporting they were told they were in the wrong facility, told to leave the facility, questioned about their gender, ridiculed or made fun of, verbally threatened, or stared at and given strange looks. Some also shared that the police were called and others noted that they were followed after using a facility. For 9 percent of respondents, actual physical assault has also occurred, including being forcibly removed from the restroom, hit or kicked, intimidated or cornered, or slapped; one respondent reported being sexually assaulted.
Moreover, 18 percent of respondents reported they were simply denied access to a restroom. Several of them were students whose education suffered because of this discrimination, in part because of excessive absences. Those who experienced issues in the workplace felt it contributed to poor job performance, and some even changed jobs or simply quit their jobs to avoid the confrontations.
There were health consequences for respondents as well, with 54 percent reporting physical complications like dehydration, urinary tract infections, kidney infections, and other kidney problems simply because of the tactics they used to avoid going to the restroom during the day. Many health facilities also have gender-segregated restrooms, which discourages individuals from seeking treatment for these conditions. As many as 58 percent have avoided going out in public at times because of bathroom concerns.”
Reblogged this on The Chronicles of Pete and commented:
Excellent piece.
Interesting to see that your “Where were you…” sentiment and calling out all kinds of child endangerment scenarios doesn’t once address the children that are murdered in the mother’s womb. That just shows that you too “choose” to be silent on that very serious issue that affects society’s view of life. You pick and choose which children are worth fighting for. Your “justice” and “outcry” is selective too.
That’s because abortion isn’t murder and it’s legal in the United States, regardless of what you think. Don’t like abortion? Don’t get one. But it’s still legal.
We’re not talking about what is legal or illegal. I simply addressed the different child endangerment scenarios and how selective the author was to express a point. Destroying life, in whatever form, ends in death. The opposite of life is death.
Except that’s exactly what we’re talking about, we’re talking about illegal vs legal activity. Go read the original thread again and try to have a conversation that doesn’t fit your own very specific terms. Or don’t, keep producing millions of children via IVF as christians do without adopting or fostering hardly any of the kids that you saved from abortion and leave us to talk about the actual topic. If just three people in each of the defined churches in America adopted instead of spending millions of dollars in IVF to get your fill up your quiver of children? We’d have no childless homes but we all know you’re never going to do that. Thank you.
My original comment was in response to the author’s piece only. It was she who went into addressing different types of child and women endangarement scenarios, her focus was not about legal vs. illegal. The author talked about caring for children and women hence the “Where were you when…” pattern. I don’t see the author addressing adoption or IVF in her declarations.
Abortion isn’t murder. Unless you’re calling your god a murderer. LOL
What is your definition of abortion? What do you call deliberately terminating the life of any living thing?
Words are not up to personal interpretation. The definition is the definition.
If you see abortion as “deliberately terminating the lofe of any living thing”, then you should never wash, as every time you do, you murder thousands of single and multi-celled organisms – most more advanced and containing more sentience than fetuses that are aborted.
The only reason you are being asked your definition of abortion is because it was you who stated that “Abortion isn’t murder.” I was simply enquiring your point of why you didn’t consider it murder, hence the question of defining it.
In regards to your comment about “washing” you should know given biology and anatomy that what you wash off/scrub off are dead cells. We have several layers and it takes roughly one month of new cells to get all the way to the top layer, therefore, washing would not be deep enough get all of the dead cells.
I stated a fact. It isn’t murder. Read the definition. I didn’t say that you couldn’t inquire, I simply said that a rational person doesn’t make up their own definitions. Words have meanings that aren’t up for interpretation.
LOL How many layers of skin you have has absolutely nothing to do with you murdering thousands of organisms every time you wash. You should know that you’re wrong. There are microorganisms on your skin. There are organisms, specifically on your eyelids which keep bacteria from getting into your eyes. The mites eat the skin surrounding your eyelashes and shit on your face.
http://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/there-might-be-mites-in-those-eyelashes/
And this science piece:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104662183
So like I said, you murder hundreds of thousands of life forms which are more evolved than fetuses every single day of your life.
Abortion isn’t murder. Read the definition of the word. I have never said that you couldn’t inquire about anything. I said that a rational person doesn’t make up their own definitions. Words have meanings that aren’t up for interpretation.
LOL How many layers of skin you have has absolutely no bearing on the lives of others, nor the fact that you murder thousands of organisms every day. There are organisms on your eyelids which keep bacteria from getting into your eyes. They eat the bacteria and then shit on your face.
Science story about the organisms living on your skin that you murder every day. These are more developed than fetuses at 18 weeks:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104662183
Given your statement, I can tell you have not looked up the definition of the word in any dictionary. If you had, you would know that it describes it as ‘termination of pregnancy,” “removal of the embryo to end pregnancy” and so on, which means a deliberate action is required to end a pregnancy in progress. Once the pregnancy exists, the process of development exists, therefore, life starts its process.
You were the one that brought up “you should never wash, as every time you do, you murder thousands of single and multi-celled organisms.” That’s why I brought up washing your skin as an example.
The article you presented as evidence does not talk about the age of the skin and its stages (i.e. 18 week old skin cycle, 1 or more months and so forth), so it can’t be used as a standard of measure against an 18 week old human pregnancy. Development should be measured within the nature of its kind; why? because the length and stages of its kind define its maturity status.
The assessment you make of “being more developed” only stands if it is compared to its type. For example, apples to apples and not apples to lemons or apples to watermelons. Requirements of one type versus another type can be different and are not necessarily equal.
When it comes to the human development from its beginning it should be noted that regardless of its stage of development, it is still a human, not a dog or a plant or a fruit (it is human DNA from the beginning). For example, to say that a 1 yr old baby is not as human as a 90 yr old adult because it has only lived one year would not be accurate. The 1 yr old baby is just as human as the 90 yr old adult; they both have human DNA.
As a side note, my responses to you have only been in regards to the topics/you introduce and address. Keep track of the points you are introducing to better understand my comments.
From my response, you should be able to tell that I was mocking your supposed care for the preservation of life, and calling you a hypocrite since you murder tens of thousands of organisms every single day. I brought up washing as an example, Dumbass, not you. Do you even read what you write? That you are so daft the you couldn’t see the simple parallel between multi-celled organisms that live on your skin and the multi-celled fetus which acts as a parasite to its would-be mother communicates to all how much you don’t understand about science. All scientists understand that these organisms are parasitic and can be threatening to your health.
Wrong. Deliberate action is NOT necessary to end a pregnancy in order for it to be determined an “abortion”. If you knew anything about the medical field, you’d be aware that there is such a thing as a “spontaneous abortion” caused by drinking things like ginger tea and energy drinks while pregnant. Miscarriages are accidents caused by the body. Spontaneous abortions are usually caused by outside stimuli.
“Once the pregnancy exists, the process of development exists, therefore, life starts its process”? LMFAO You are sooooo wrong. First of all, pregnancy is a term with begins at an, as of yet, undetermined time (as studies show that humans are actually pregnant for close to 10 months, not the previously assumed 9) it is NOT a process. No one is a little pregnant, nor do pregnancies “exist” as you claim. And NO development doesn’t equal life. Our eggs develop constantly and then they she’d once they aren’t fertilized. Sperms abortions egg also meet very often and begin to develop but stop for one reason or another and you are none the wiser.
The article I shared doesn’t have to talk about age of skin nor its stages. The fact that there are organisms living on your skin should give you pause as you claimed to value all life. You do know that most (65% of all) pregnancies never make it to 18 weeks because of miscarriages, right? So it doesn’t need to be compared to an 18 week old fetus, it could be compared to a two week old ball of cells that attached itself to your fallopian tubes. Both will be terminated for the sake of your health. 18 weeks is the period where one must come to a decision about their abortion.
We place human DNA in pigs, monkeys, bananas, apples, and dogs in order to test and grow body parts, FYI. The assessment that I made about “the organisms being on your skin being more developed than a fetus” was because a fetus has no organs and no sentience unlike the organisms on your skin. The organisms in your womb and on your skin do what they can to survive – they will eliminate each other and feed off of you in order to survive like any other parasites – the organisms on your skin are capable of strategic maneuvers and reproduction, however, unlike the fetus which is one opening that eats it’s own hair and throws it up for months.
You went way too far, rambling on with all of those apples to oranges analogies. It was barely coherent. LOL You really need to stop acting like you know anything at all, because I’ve already shown you to be severely lacking in this subject. You just keep digging that hole.
Since I don’t know you, I am not going to assume any type of feeling and will only go by the words you use to respond to my comments. I am not going to read in-between lines with feelings either like you’re saying I should have. I was only considering the words of your statements and nothing else, I could have assumed a lot of things just by the fact that both of us are on different sides of a topic…yet I chose to not go there to keep it about the topics at hand. I’m not interested in getting into “feeling” battles, just stick to the meaning of the words/concepts being addressed.
I never said I brought up washing as an example, I said I had given an example of washing dead skin cells as an example given the fact that you were the one that brought up “washing.” I never once stated that I saw a baby in the womb as a parasitic organism, so I would not compare it to it or the function of a parasite. If you believe a baby in the womb to be a parasitic organism, then just state it.
Imposed termination due to non-natural causes is deliberate. Miscarriages were not part of the conversation, I only addressed the procedure considered non-natural by definition, which is defined in the dictionaries as purposely “terminating a pregnancy” which is completely different from miscarriages, which you correctly stated as an unforeseen natural termination/accident.
Pregnancy starts when the egg and the sperm unite; fertilization, conception. That’s pure biological science, not an opinion or a feeling. The conversation was not about whether women are pregnant 9 or 10 months or 6 months, etc. Pregnancy is a process in which there are several stages of development…once again science and not an opinion. Eggs are developed in the ovaries, then pushed into the fallopian tubes and then travel to the uterus…if not used, they are expelled. Sperm is developed in the testicles and then proceed and are expelled. The conversation was about what happens after they merge and become one, pregnancy.
Because I value life, I defend life at conception. You have the freedom to not defend life of conception and it is your prerogative. FYI in some states, you can make a decision up to 20 weeks or 22 weeks…there is also something called late term abortion which goes way beyond the 18, 20 and 22 weeks.
Placing human DNA in a pig, monkey, etc. is still placing human DNA and not pig DNA or monkey DNA…so you’re proving my point that human DNA will always be human DNA regardless of where it is.
An 18 week old “fetus” does have organs at that point: At 18 weeks there is a heart beat, there is a formed and functioning heart in its place (which is why when you go at 18 weeks to an ultrasound they check the rhythm of the heart beat of the baby); there is a spine, a chest, a head, an abdomen, legs, arms, hands, feet. At 18 weeks if it’s a girl the uterus and fallopian tubes are already formed and in place. If it’s a boy, genitals are noticeable and in place…all science and not an opinion.
Not once did I mention anything about analogies of oranges. I simply stated that a comparison needed to happen apples to apples…as in the concept and not the actual fruit. If you didn’t understand the apple to apples reference, then I can understand why you thought it was not coherent. If that was the case, I apologize for not explaining the concept…I assumed you knew it.
I’m not digging a hole, I’m simply answering you.
Where did I say that you “should read in between lines with feelings”? There are absolutely no feelings here. LOL
You did assume a lot. You assumed that I misunderstood you and that I knew nothing of abortion and that I hadn’t read the definition despite me proving the exact opposite in my comprehensive posts and the articles/studies I provided. How could you go off of what was written, but pull inaccuracies out of nowhere?
Pregnancy does NOT start when the sperm fertilizes the egg. Pregnancy begins when a fertilized egg attaches itself to a wall (the uterus, the fallopian tube, almost anything) in the body, hopefully in, but many times not in the uterus, and shows signs of growing.
You don’t need to say that a fetus is a parasitic organism. Science says that. Literally. I never said you claimed such. Why do you think that every statement I make is about you or something you have said? Up your reading comprehension. Things you have said are in quotations and I literally write, “You said”. Otherwise it has nothing to do with you.
“That’s why I brought up washing as an example”. That’s a direct quote. Agains, read what you write.
“Imposed termination due to non-natural causes is deliberate”. That’s not English and it also makes the abortion procedure not abortion. Do you know what an abortion procedure entails at all? You keep changing the definition of the word abortion as your lack of knowledge of the term is made obvious.
Here: “From my response, you should be able to tell that I was mocking your supposed care for the preservation of life,”
Questioning your stance/position is not assuming you know nothing about abortion, it is simply questioning your position/statement on the topic. If what you or me say happens to be contrary to what the definition is, then anybody can question why it’s different…that’s all it is, questioning and not assuming.
We choose whether or not we get frustrated, annoyed, etc. while giving answers. I personally have not been frustrated or annoyed at your answers. To me it’s a conversation.
The medical dictionary defines pregnancy as: the period from conception to birth. That wasn’t me making it up, that’s what science defines it as.
Nobody is accusing you of anything nor am I assuming that every statement is about me. I only read what you’re stating about the topic and nothing else. I read and answered about your comments only.
I do know what the abortion procedure to terminate a pregnancy is like. I have actually witnessed them. I have not once changed the definition of abortion when it comes to terminating a pregnancy. This part of abortion is the only thing I’ve been focused on…not miscarriages, not accidents, not anything else. All other subject and turns were introduced by you and I chose not to ignore them but acknowledge them by answer back to them. I didn’t have to respond to any of it but I chose to and it’s ok.
It’s cute that you think what you’re saying is correct and that you’re difficult to understand. Nothing you’ve yet stated has been based in fact and you’ve gone so far off topic that you can’t even remember what you’ve written, yet you tell me to keep track of the points I’m introducing to better understand you? LMFAO You truly are delusional.
It is not about cuteness, it’s about people holding a conversation about a topic. You most definitely have the freedom to state whatever you want but stating that I’m not using facts is not accurate…for the definitions of words all you have to do is look them up in dictionaries: standard or medical, you pick. For the stages of pregnancy, you can look that up too in scientific books, google, yahoo, bing…whatever your preference is.
I only answer back based on your answers. It was you who interjected yourself into my initial comment about the author’s piece. I didn’t seek you and personally I don’t mind having these types of conversations nor do they bother me nor do I get into name calling just because you’re not seeing it the way I’m seeing it. This is simply a conversation and not theatrics.
Oy vey. You don’t understand anything. You’re not holding a conversation about a topic. You are telling me that I know nothing about a topic and I am stating facts and you’re backpedaling.
You don’t need to acknowledge the rights granted to me by the government to speak as I wish since you don’t work for the government and the 1st amendment has nothing to do with this.
Your opinion means absolutely nothing in the face of facts. Educate yourself and stop prattling. Read:
“According to both the scientific community and long-standing federal policy, a woman is considered pregnant only when a fertilized egg has implanted in the wall of her uterus”
https://www.guttmacher.org/about/gpr/2005/05/implications-defining-when-woman-pregnant
That you’d date to claim my informing you is theatrics is hilarious. These things don’t bother you because ignorance is bliss. You don’t know anything about this subject, yet you speak as if you do. Again, nothing you have written has been sensible. I am refuting what you’ve said and all you say is that I don’t understand you and that this is apples to oranges. No. You’re just wrong about everything. No one cares about you being bothered nor your or anyone else’s feelings. This is fact based yet you divert the convo to spout on for paragraphs about “I only answer back based on your answers”… “these types of conversations don’t bother me”. And? So random.
http://the-difference-between.com/fetus/parasite
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/spontaneous+abortion
Your need to focus on the stages of pregnancy for no reason is weird, but you need to read the links I posted least you continue typing the responses you have here, elsewhere.
I’m not surprised that you used the Guttmacher Institute to prove your point, a non-profit organization that works to advance reproductive health through birth control, including abortion. A semi-autonomous division of Planned Parenthood…with this, I now understand where you are coming from and it explains your approach. Got it, no need to explain your statements further.
It is a clump of cells. Can it live outside of the womb? No? Then it is not a living thing. Also you should stop having your period, because that egg you’re washing away is a potential living thing, right?
A living clump of cells is still a living clump of cells. Our bodies are full of living clumps of cells (brain, lungs, liver, stomach, etc.). Any type of cell that needs the body in order to remain alive and is taken outside its place and outside the body for ever will die. Just like your heart needs to be connected in order to keep it moving and pumping blood, you remove that source and the tissue deteriorates and dies.
In regards to a “period” you should know that biology/anatomy dictates that once an egg is produced and it is not used, the body turns it into waste and expels it. No different from eating perfectly good food, the body gets what it needs and then the rest turns into waste, hence why you pee and poop. Our body does hundreds and hundreds of cycles of intaking and then pushing out waste.
We’re not talking about potential living things, we are talking about things that are actually living and are in different stages of life.
“They are a savvy bunch, these sick bastards. They flock to places where they can gain your trust. They go to great pains to appear normal and friendly. They don’t sport a beard and a dress and waltz into the bathroom to attack your women and children.”
Thank you for proving the point that I understood from boycotts perspective and I’m 15. These “sick bastards” will probably pretend to be trans and walk into a bathroom of opposite sex. Just FYI my friends at school have already tried it for fun. Not sure of results but they have and more are talking about who can pull it off. Childish I know. So I’m not sure it has to do anything with gay or transgender people but with these “savy bunch” you talk about in your article… that scare kids like me. Oh and I’m gay. And what’s with “your women and children” I thought gays are the same as everyone. Think you strayed really far from the point with your article.
ummm…since you say you are gay…why on earth are you attempting to make it harder for trans people by visiting the opposite bathroom than your professed gender? Just a teenager causing trouble but honestly you are just screwing things up for other people, who just want to use the toilet. Grow up.
Sounds like the person who wrote this has anger issues and probably needs therapy. Men have no business in the bathroom with wome . I don’t care how you “self identify “….you are born with what you are born with. If you don’t like it you can’t just change it…..that’s like saying I identify as a dog so now society must treat me as though I am really a dog……Get a life.
Sounds like you are too concerned with the genitalia of others. Go see a psychologist.
Hmm….to say something like this you must be one of those….transgenders. if you had any brains, which you obviously don’t, you would know that men should not be in the woman’s bathroom. Although, it would be pretty cool to walk into a men’s restroom and see a woman peeing at the urinal.
If YOU had any brains at all you would realize that trans women don’t stand at urinals peeing. Do you have any idea how often trans women are harassed in the restrooms by their looks alone? Why the fuck would they put their lives at risk and use a urinal, let alone the dysphoria and how uncomfortable it would make them. Ignorant fool.
I’m not trans, I’m just not a bigoted asshole.
If you had a brain, you’d know that trans people have been sharing the bathroom with us for decades without issue. Straight cis men are the ones watching you and your children urinate. Straight cis men and women are the prejudiced pieces of shit who attack trans people in bathrooms and on the street because they’re insecure about their sexuality.
That you’re so fucking stupid that you would believe that the men’s room only has a urinal shows how little life experience and knowledge you have. Do you think disabled people use urinals? No, you fucking twat. All bathrooms have toilets. It’s the law.
http://m.mic.com/articles/114066/statistics-show-exactly-how-many-times-trans-people-have-attacked-you-in-bathrooms#.aVC8hsJYE
You are so dumb. When did I say men’s rooms don’t have stalls? I said it would be cool to see a girl peeing in a urinal…it’s a joke you dummy. And…it’s not the transgenders u am concerned with…it the ones who aren’t and trying to get in…unfortunately…transgenders are collateral damage in this…..
You said that it would be cool to see women at urinals. It wasn’t a joke. Your dumb ass actually thought the women would use urinals.
There’s no proof that pervetys, who were watching people pee before, will take advantage of anything. If you people cared about perverts, you would focus on them instead of restricting the rights if already marginalized people.
They are marginalized by choice.
Wrong. You are a fragile bigot by choice though.
Minorities are sometimes marginalised…not by choice….Transgenders made a choice.
There is no choice but to hate. Minorities are marginalized because white men have issues with themselves and project onto everyone else. That’s the basis of literally every issue on this planet. White men (both straight and some gay) indulge in toxic masculinity which sees them enraged by the fact that they are turned on/sexually interested in these trans people. That’s why they attack and kill trans people. That why they legislate against trans people when straight cis gendered men are the most well documented perverts. They’ve infected men of color with this same toxic masculinity (demonizing Asian, Latino, and black men the same exacr way you people are now demonizing trans people – calling them over sexes and confused perverts who you say want “your” women and children) which sees them displaying anti-black, anti-feminine, and anti-trans sentiments – not unlike that Chinese cop that was just arrested for saying some very straight cis white man shit in texts and emails in an attempt to appeal to the fragile men he worked with. This is very well documented. You people are pathetic and insanely insecure in tour sexuality. If you deserved it, people would pity you.
Someone get this guy a Wambulance….I use the word guy loosely.
I’m not a man but that’s a pretty shit response to the facts.
LOL Facts in the form of a study. Better get on that wambulance yourself, weakling.
http://www.salon.com/2015/06/24/study_men_overcompensate_in_gross_ways_when_their_masculinity_is_threatened/
*perverts
*of
Reblogged this on Praying for Eyebrowz and commented:
Amen.
Amazing article. Dead on. Glad to have found this. Look forward to reading more.
EXCELLENT! If only others could know the backstory behind the HB2 law…
I´m totally agree with Gretchen Kelly. And many people hide their real beliefs behind the bible and became findamentalists, something that we do not need. Anfortunately, many people speak from Ignorance, intolerance, racism, discrimination. hate, arrogance, fearof the unknown, the different. And they ended hiding behind the religion. Until this changes, we´ll keep having what we have until now. It is a great pity to see that people is not interested in change for a better undestanding.
AMEN!
“Because I haven’t heard from you about these things.”
First, if you are so brilliant, you should know better than to start a sentence with a conjunction. Second, most of us are busy working to dilly dally with your poor panties-in-a wad self. Finally, grow the hell up. It is impossible to satisfy everyone. That’s life.
It’s perfectly acceptable to start a sentence with a conjunction.
This is the best essay I’ve read on the subject. Thoughtfully written. Well-chosen arguments. I hope many read it and seriouslky think about what you have to say.
Oh my God 🙁
Great piece and it needs to be said (and said and said and said). This so called outrage over who uses the bathroom is not about what it seems. The legal discrimination of transgender people (and folks, it is something one is born too and has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation (ie homosexuality etc) ) is coming from lawmakers who represent a very particular segment of society that is told to impose their moral/religious world views on others (many religions have built this into their belief systems, to “spread the word”). They are hate laws. They are not about protecting women and children and in fact have created just the opposite effect.
But this may be a good thing in the end because this is a conversation we need to have. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? Women and children are having a war waged on them, and people let this happen. We tsk tsk when a star athlete is accused of rape, but when the charges go away (gee, wonder why?) we say “yay! He’s innocent! Go team go!”
Ever stop to think that maybe some men are not so innocent? Who is raping and harming women and children, by a long shot? It doesn’t mean ALL men are evil, but it does mean something is wrong, and if you are so willing to throw a marginalized group of people under the bus because of someone ELSE being a threat, then, yes you ARE part of the problem. You ARE contributing to the rape culture. And if you think that does not exist, then you are just not paying attention, for whatever reason.
STOP violence against women and children, change the systems and then let us live and pee in peace. We are NOT the problem. Predators are. Wake up.
Simple If you have man parts use the Men’s room… If you have Woman parts use the Woman’s room… No one needs to do anything else… I have plenty of Gay friends but they also know where I stand on the whole of it… To say someone has the right to use the restroom because they feel that they are a different sex then they are born is BS…
You have no gay friends because no one who respects themselves would subject themselves to your presence. You don’t even know the difference between sexuality and gender.
My goodness, there is a lot of hatred here! I thank Target for their public, anti-oppression stand. I thank you, Gretchen Kelly, for your articulate post. The “Christian” right is vehement in its stance against all that is queer and flies in the face of their cherry-picked Bible quotations. “What would Jesus say”, I ask? Certainly the Christ I learned about in my youth would not have railed against anyone who chose to live their lives in peace. Christ would have not taken kindly to those who cast judgement upon others, spew hate for hatred’s sake, bully and discriminate against others. Those “Holier than Thou” types I suspect may have a lot to answer for come “judgement day…Myself…I simply choose to live my life in peace…
Why don’t they just do this? Have a door that leads to one restroom any pervert can go into, male or female. And, have another restroom door leading to two restrooms, one for men, and one for women where you cannot go into an opposite sex restroom. Problem solved.
The men’s rooms would be empty with exception of trans people. Straight cis men.are the problem.
Really!? Just like a separate bathroom for blacks before? That is marginalizing and criminalizing a group of people because of ignorant thinking. What about priests going into the boys bathroom… Should there be a separate one for them? Again, making mass assumptions on a group of people.
You need to reread my comment. I’m not in favor of segregating the bathrooms. Yikes. The sarcasm went right over your head.
Apples and oranges. The issue with whites and blacks was skin color. This transgender issue is about protection, and common sense. Blacks weren’t saying they wanted to be white, or thought they were white instead of black. They weren’t having surgeries to replace their skin with white skin. They were discriminated against solely on skin color. The transgender situation is about people who have severe psychological disorders about their gender identity. They think they’re something they’re not. They need help, not the right to invade the privacy rights of others. This is about protecting people from the ever growing number of voyeurs and deviants that will take advantage of these kinds of ridiculous policies, and hurt people. One thing is obvious from the likes of your comments on this thread. This nation has gone mad.
Not apples and oranges at all. Blacks were segregated because whites claimed they caused diseases, were lazy, violent toward women, and had loose morals. Segregation was to “protect” the delicate sensibilities of the white female.
Transgender people are too TERRIFIED to think about new ways to get themselves killed, thank you very much! There have been NO cases of ANY transgender “deviants” peering in restrooms or hurting anyone- THEY are the ones getting beaten up and killed.
Oh yeah- DSM no longer classifies transgenderism as a mental illness – or homosexuality either. The HELP they need is the ability to go to the restroom in peace, as they have been all these years.
The people who will get hurt are the transgender people- not the kids.
The issue with whites and blacks was skin color. This transgender issue is about protection, and common sense.>>
Except that’s totally wrong. Nothing is ever just about “skin color”, dear. The reason white and blacks had separate bathroom was indeed, due to white people clutching our collective pearls because we thought we’d get diseases from “the Black people”. You are truly one of the most ignorant people I’ve come across online and it’s creepy to see how you get off on trivializing and making light of what are really agonizing issues for people.
It was ALL about skin color. If you weren’t black there was no problem for the whites. Hence, the skin color was the issue, and it was an issue because of a white supremacist attitude. That was the root cause, and everything else you mention flowed from that. Get a clue.
And, you call this an agonizing issue for transgenders. Really? Tell me, what is so “agonizing” for someone to go into a restroom of those with the same sexual organs to relieve themselves? Wake up, and smell the coffee.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. You have articulated what I have been trying to find words for for weeks. I am sharing this with everyone I know. Thank you.
I’m going to go hang out in the women’s bathroom at target every Saturday…Saturday is when I identify as a woman. lets see how many complaints I get. Sunday is when I identify as a fire hydrant…going to stand in the parking lot and tell people its illegal to park near me.
You’re a dumbass and a pervert like most straight men. You need to be arrested.
From your comment, I ascertain you are anti-straight. No room for bigots here.
I’m anti-pervert, which according to studies, is mostly straight cis gendered men. But you’very displayed that you’re an uneducated bigot.
From your comment, I ascertain you are anti-straight….There is no room for bigots in our PC society!!!
http://everydayfeminism.com/2012/08/myths-about-transgender-people/
You couldn’t define “politically correct” if your life depended on it.
You’re right, it is a made up phrase, used to silence people’s opinions, there is no true definition. The moment enough people become offended by something, it becomes no longer “PC”…thus the definition is constantly evolving. There is no need for politicians to attack the First Amendment, we will silence ourselves, in the name of Political correctness. I don’t expect you to understand that, you’re part of the problem.
It’s not a “made up phrase used to silence opinions”. It’s a phrase used to separate fearful bigots from normally functioning people.
Racism, sexism, homophobia, and prejudice we never politically correct. They havr aleays been protested against. You’re just crying like a little bitch now, because youre being called out for your lack of intelligence and your prejudice
LOL You don’t even know what the first amendment protects. Fool… The government isn’t infringing on anything you say. You’re again just being held accountable for your actions and you can’t take it because you’re childish scum.
“Crying like a little bitch” That sounds rather offensive to women (and those who identify as women)…I told you, no room for bigots here. for someone who preaches tolerance, you seem awfully quick to judge…might you by chance to be a Christian? I find Christians are quick to judge as well.
That’s not offensive to us at all, but go ahead and tone police since you can’t refute my points. You stated your assbackwards beliefs and will be judged for them. Predictably, you also have no clue what tolerance is. And no. I’m not Xtian (again, more deflection).
You’re clearly one of those psychotic trolls. Go see a professional.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists
Well it was fun while it lasted. Truth time. I am a straight, white, married male, atheist. I really don’t care what people do in their homes. Gay, Straight, Trans, makes no difference to me. I don’t care about gay people getting married, I suppose out of the two terrible choices, I would have to vote Republican, I like the original concept of small federal govt. I think pot should be (legal (huge tax revenue) or at least decriminalized).
but when one side spends years preaching about “rape culture” and how penises cause rape…it seems strange for those same people to not understand how someone may have an opportunity to do something to a woman or child in a bathroom. Of course not all ( probably the majority of Trans people) are not predators. but even you must see the potential now for a predator to take advantage of this.
In black and white terms, any man (including sex offenders) can now claim to be a woman and go into the bathroom with little girls. I do have concerns about that. the whole point of my absurd comment was…well to point out the absurdity of the situation. You just took it literally.
I think collectively, there is an answer, but keep in mind, while were distracted by this…make sure to watch what the other hand is doing.
and your tendency to become angry and lash out is not just a liberal problem, it affects both sides of the argument. I sort of hope you read this far, but not enough to lose sleep. there is more to say, but I think you can get the rest…basically I don’t care what people do until it affects me or my family.
Respectfully,
J
As if everyone couldn’t tell you were a straight cis white male – which is what I called you long ago.
You’re insecure about your sexuality and ate looking to oppress others in retaliation. You have been sharing the bathroom with trans people for decades, yet only people who identify as you do attack others and watch women.and little boys urinate. The facts are stacked against you.
If you can’t concentrate on more than one issue at a time, then you have many other issues to deal with.
I think you missed my point. Oh well, I tried…you just have a closed mind. you are no better than the people you hate.
It’s not about transgendered people for me, it’s about those pretending to be…you know, the perverts you speak of.
https://ladyliberty1885.com/2016/03/07/leader-of-trans-bathroom-charge-in-charlotte-has-sex-offender-status/
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault
That was spot on, absolutely brilliant.
Where was I? Largely ignoring all the issues listed there because they didn’t feel like a direct threat to my child. I’m not an activist; I admit I didn’t feel spurred to action by any of the events on that list. The shared bathroom issue itself felt like something that would be worked out in liberal areas where this sort of thing is more common, arriving someday in Cleveland, Ohio fully vetted. Then Target comes and drops this in everyone’s hometown: there could be a man in the restroom with my 10 year old daughter. Now it’s *my* child in *my* hometown Target.
I hear the statistics that people are rarely assaulted in bathrooms. But children are rarely abducted by strangers on the side of the road, and yet I’ve taught my child how to spot that danger. They’re rarely abused by a teacher or coach but I’ve taught her what that pattern might look like. How do I teach her what an inappropriate bathroom scenario looks like? That man is allowed to be there. He’s allowed to be undressed. When are we allowed to sense danger? And the truth about the statistics is that we don’t really know how likely this rule is to be exploited because restrooms are generally still limited by sex. A man in the ladies room, until very recently, was real call for alarm. Don’t believe me? Walk into any ladies room in Ohio, undress, and note the reaction. If the idea that an attack might be in the offing is so laughable then why would I get this response?
The issues can be solved but they have to be solved in a thoughtful, holistic manner. High school sports programs, for example, have developed guidelines for when someone can compete as a female and they’re generally sensible – not simply allowing someone who currently identifies as a female to play ladies’ tennis. Why not? That wouldn’t be fair to everyone else. So in my mind a boycott of Target is perfectly reasonable…one, because I don’t support a major retailler haphazardly pushing a social agenda without the details worked out, and two, because I don’t feel there is sufficient data to support the assertion that this is a nominal worry. I’m not surprised others feel the same way.
You are dead on. Great reply.
Are you fucking stupid? You have no clue what a transgender person is, do you? We are not men in dresses, or women in men’s clothing. This is a life long issue we have dealt with. You don’t just wake up one morning and say “Hey I think I’ll be a woman today.” I have spent nearly 10 years since I first started transitioning from female to male. I have spent thousands of dollars on hormones and surgery to correct my body to help myself feel comfortable in my own skin. My only goal in the bathroom is to pee, wash my hands, and leave. I have no fucking interest in your child. Get over yourself.
Feeling very disheartened that there is such division here. I also can not understand why our governments are legalizing discrimination…And marginalizing groups of people. No one questioned the use of bathrooms before. So ask yourself why now. There is no evidence of abuse in bathrooms by those transgendered, just as there is no proof of voter fraud. But people are increasingly being disenfranchised by the powers that be. Notice how these issues become divisive? This may be deliberate so as to have us turn on each other rather than on what our now political and corporate oligarchy does not want our attention on. …imagine all the people, living life in peace…John Lennon
“A man in the ladies room, until very recently, was real call for alarm. Don’t believe me? Walk into any ladies room in Ohio, undress, and note the reaction. If the idea that an attack might be in the offing is so laughable then why would I get this response?”
You are very confused. I don’t live in Ohio, but I’m pretty sure if you walk into any MEN’s room and do this it would still be cause for alarm. Because normal people don’t go streaking in public restrooms unless maybe their clothes are on fire. Stop trying to fix what isn’t broken.
Wow, it’s so weird seeing people be so honest but with guys like this, I appreciate them (regardless of how terrifying they are) because they are so willing to say exactly what they are and what they aren’t. I vastly prefer this to the Christians who want everyone to like them and stay quiet and moderate just so no one gets mad. Guys like this? You can see them coming and know exactly how to handle them. A lot safer.
If you say so. I assumed you could understand the meaning of what I said. Alas, I was wrong. So sad to see such closed minds. Farewell.
Wow… this is quite possibly one of the best things I have ever read and it fully summarizes everything I’ve been thinking over the past few months when these bathroom bills are being enacted. I am a transgender man and I fight for justice for everybody, not just my own community. We are not the dangerous ones, yet people think we are. You are so right, the women and children being killed daily are the ones who need our help! Thank you so much for writing this.
Dear G, I love you. I love your brain and the way you think. I love that you don’t stand for bullshit or smokescreening or bandwagon-jumping. I can only hope that the sudden flurry of interest leads to deep thinking and minds opening to more of the ways in which people can stand up for others and offer their support towards a world where everyone is protected from criminals.
Never, in the history of telling people to “shut their pie hole”, has telling someone to shut their pie hole, ever actually encouraged them to shut it. FYI…
Hahahaha! Exactly!
More then likely you have been in the bathroom with a transgender and not even known it. My complaint is that with this law in place it opens the door to perverts and other nasties.
There’s no proof that more perverts than before will watch women pee
I don’t want to allow them the opportunity to provide the proof. Common sense says that perverts are opportunists, who will jump at this opportunity.
You don’t have common sense and again, the facts are stacked against you. You’re the only perv.
There’s still laws against it. Just because this policy exists, doesn’t mean anything. It is illegal to photograph people in bathrooms without their knowledge. This includes anyone going in the bathroom to be a creep of any sort. There’s always been this law and an LGBT friendly policy does… not….. Change that. Period. It doesn’t make what is illegal legal, period. What you’re doing is fear mongering. Sexual assault is one of the lowest crimes in the US. And 99% of the time it will never occur in a public place like a bathroom.
In other words, we need to talk about heterosexual males and their bad behaviour and the lengths they will go to, to satisfy their needs. Right?
So the issue is not really about transgenders, who might share some tips on makeup or ask you wear you got those pretty shoes. Right?
The article contains links showing that doesn’t happen. Did you see them?
Then how do you protect the TG women who are being assaulted in men’s rooms?
How would one have that proof? If this is a pretty new decision with retailers and restaurants, how would anyone accumulate data so rapidly. It really doesn’t matter how often it happens when common sense dictates that it is careless to set up a situation so ripe for the picking. I don’t understand how any parent can be okay with this. How does one prove that they are transgender to start with and why in the world would child predators be salivating knowing that there is no way to weed them out of using girls/women’s restrooms?
Because the policy that Target has adopted has been the law in 18 states in the US. And they have done studies and found no increases in assault. Some of these laws have been in place for over 10 years.
There would be a study. LOL There are studies that prove that trans people have never assaulted anyone in bathrooms. There are also studies proving straight cis men are the perverts that have been terrorizing women for decades. You perverts have been terrorizing women and children in bathrooms for hundreds of years, yet you’ve never addressed it. Why? Because you freaks don’t care about women and children. You care about oppressing people. <– There's the proof you have no common sense. You don't even understand the logical fallacy you're engaging in.
This isn't new. The decision to descriminate against people who have been peeing next to you for over fifty years is new, but the fact that they have been in the bathrooms isn't. That means that there should be data somewhere supporting your bullshit hypothesis.
It does matter how often it happens since that's what fear mongering is using in order to pass these laws. There's no basis for it. I don't understand how a normal person would give a shit about someone else's genitalia. If you don't know who nor what is trans, then you need to shut up and educate yourself.
Geez… Take a chill pill. Please. Personally, I could care less who is in the stall next to me. That said, every other man, woman, and child, in this country, who disagree with you, have as much right to voice their opinion as you do. Personally, if Target wants to change their bathroom laws, that’s their business. Every decision they make in there day to day business operations will either achieve a desired result, or not. They must feel it is important to make this corporate decision, or they would not have made it. On the flip side, individuals and families have the right to choose to shop where they feel their values are appreciated. We all have differing opinions… It will work itself out in the end. But, please stop calling other people pervs, just because they don’t agree with you. I respect your opinion, because I know, deep down, they are very important to you. 🙂
Who said I wasn’t chill? Great job ASSuming what people feel because you feel offended/attacked.
It’s “I couldn’t care less”. “I could care less denotes you do care – which you clearly do since you commented.
Rights aren’t something to be voted upon. Considering how uneducated most of the people in these comments are, there’s no question as to anti-intellectualism being on the rise (as a few studies have shown).
You need to learn about the Constitution and the rights people have which cannot be stripped away by states. Your opinions are baseless and prejudiced and steeped in fear of your own sexuality. It’s hilariously pathetic.
No one cares about your opinion nor you. I had to scroll back up to even see if you were the one who initially wrote to me. Your lack of significance is almost impossible to articulate.
You’re so full of yourself that you’ve already forgotten you called someone who disagree with you a “perv”. You’re pathetic.
I’m not full of myself nor pathetic. All of you losers who are interested in the genitalia of strangers are perverts. I’m not a fool like you Cave. I forget nothing. Run along now. Your lack of intelligence and insecurities are telling in your inane and angry reply.
I’m pretty sure the pathetic one is Dave and “Someone” who have no sources.
I’m not sure how you think when someone else feels differently about something than yourself…….that your opinion should be shoved down the other person who disagrees’ throat? Dave said it exactly right. YOU Loudspeaker……..you are the hypocrite. It’s right there in your previous comment…..”you’re the only perv here”. But somehow you think that is being chill?
My opinion isn’t being shoved down anyone’s throat. You people are here replying to me, and picking fights, not the other way around. Dave is not right I’m not a hypocrite. You can’t even put together a sentence, you’re so incensed by the things I’m saying, that you can’t counter at all. I’m chill. You’re the weirdo and the pervert and the unread one.
Ugh would you just STOP already about people’s opinions being “taken away”, that’s not hsplening! And stop tone policing, people are terrified of Christians who are once again, inserting fear and hysteria about the GLBT community. You have terrorized them for decades and people are angry and finding the courage to say so. This isn’t just another opinion like “hey I like chocolate ice cream, it’s cool if you like strawberry, agree to disagree!” Christians are causing HARM. They are putting a very vulnerable population that’s never done a damn thing to you or your kids in danger. So enough with the call to civility because what it really means is “I really need you to like me” and there are a lot of who are scared of you and need to protect people from you. Know that’s where a lot of us are coming from, you feeling good is not the priority. You stopping the harm you cause? That’s the priority. Once hard through most of us want nothing to do with you.
Unfortunately, it’s not all Christians. There are significant minorities of non-Christian gays and lesbians, feminists and atheists, who are incredibly, irrational hate-filled towards trans people. Trans WOMEN specifically, which tells us what it’s really all about.
All ofcthexpipulstions you referenced are fractional minorities, they do not enjoy the voting influence, power and privilege that Christians do in this country. Christians in this country could truly change everything, from poverty in America to making sure the GLBT community is safe. They don’t and it’s exhausting to parse out who the “good” ones are because as nice as moderate Christians are? They don’t collectively organize around the harm those that also claim Christ commit and a lot of the time they are quietly voting for laws like this. The priority is not making sure Christians feel comfortable or known for who they are as individuals; the priority is to protect the vulnerable parts of our population from them. Once that happens? We’ll all do what we can to stay completely away from them, they aren’t the best neighbor’s, citizens or friends to those of us who represent a life contrary to their “Christian values”.
“Populations”
This policy is hardly a month old. It is impossible to be able to guage any change in restroom pervert habits, there is not enough data.
http://mic.com/articles/114066/statistics-show-exactly-how-many-times-trans-people-have-attacked-you-in-bathrooms#.bbirsESQs
If they’re perverts, there would be data on them engaging in such behavior as they have been using the bathroom with us for decades. There’s such data for cis men, why not trans? Because trans people don’t accost people in the bathroom. Your logic is paper thin.
Since when did actual perverts need laws to be a pervert?
There was never actually a law against going in the wrong bathroom. Any guy or woman could go in the wrong one. So transgender has nothing to do with it. Any guy could have and now can, dress up like a girl and go in the woman’s bathroom. It was never illegal. But people seem to think that if he assaults someone, peeks at someone, or takes pictures of someone- he can say he’s transgender and get off. That is not true. He committed a CRIME then. But he could have committed that same crime long before transgenders were going into their bathrooms. People are so ridiculous. They are using transgenders to move a fake argument. Makes me sick
Not true. It has always been against the law to enter the wrong restroom. You would get charged, ticketed, and fined.
And since when is peeping through the crack in a restroom stall a crime? A perv could just stand there and watch, and you’d have no recourse. All he has to do is say he identifies as a woman, and the store manager or police won’t do anything to help.
Nope. That is called Peeping and it’s illegal. Was before the pro-transgender laws and is after the pro-transgender laws.
I’m sorry but the writer of this article is being very presumptuous. I am not thrilled about Target’s free bathroom policy only because I feel like it will open up a can of worms. Beyond the possibility of pedophiles taking advantage, I think fights will break out (and already have) because people will have their guard up about who they’re in the restroom with. What I take issue with is the author assuming that anyone who is up in arms about Target’s policy doesn’t care about any other abuse. Since when? How can you assume that? I can only speak for myself and I care deeply about the safety of children especially, so I don’t appreciate when someone assumes that I don’t. The bottom line is this: safety of children should come above all else, we need to stop judging each other (I’m looking at YOU, author) and stop making assumptions that aren’t true.
The author doesn’t assume that nobody cared about other issues. The author is pointing out that there were no boycotts, riots, petitions etc. The policy also doesn’t increase any danger then was already present. People who are going to be a predator will be so regardless. It’s just that simple.
As has been stated by law enforcement officials, NO such case has EVER come across their desks. NONE. They’ve arrested pedophiles from mens’ rooms- who were born men. Never any men who transitioned being in a ladies room assaulting women and children.
She doesn’t make that assumption so why would you assume she had… perhaps you you felt a little uncomfortable and this is captured by the self defensive nature of your rebuke.
That’s actually the entire point of the article. That all of these people speaking out now have been deafeningly silent before. There’s the assumption. And it is presumptuous, self-righteous and rude.
No one cared until your ilk created massive amounts of paranoia by making it a law. Now you have actual women who dress up a little more masculinely getting asked for their ID and shoved out of a bathroom by the police. Show me ONE INCIDENT of that ever happening prior to those of you who are so terrified by the GLBTA community that you created a law to prevent a problem that never existed in the first place. The end.
Karen, the “you” I’m speaking to are the 1 million who have pledged to boycott. The collective “you.” I was attempting to break through the spin and falsehoods that have been put out by the AFA and sites like Brietbart. They are spreading stories that are false in order to drum up fear. Like I said in the article, there is NO EVIDENCE that pro-transgender laws result in more bathroom assaults. States that have had these laws for years saw NO INCREASE in assaults. And that’s according to their police departments.
Sure, some individuals who are boycotting are surely involved in some other kinds of activism. But I did not hear or see this kind of furor over any of the incidences I mentioned in my post. Do you not see the difference? The silliness over this? While there are real people actually being assaulted and molested and raped, one million people are freaking out over a possibility that all evidence points to not being a legitimate threat. I’m sorry if that offended you. Or if my carefully worded blog post was too harsh for your taste. You may want to stay away from blogs and the internet in general if this was too much for you, because I promise you, this was quite benign.
And what about your sons? The young boys who have to use the public restrooms. Where has the outrage been all these years over the possible danger to them? Boys are assaulted and molested too. And it’s just as harmful, devastating and tragic. Were these one million not concerned about the boys? You see, the problem is that most sex offenders are straight men. THAT is the problem we should be working on and talking about and getting fired up about. Until we fix that problem, women and children (and sometimes men) will not be safe in or outside of public bathrooms. Let’s channel our fears into something that will actually be productive.
Your dumb as hell… .just like everyone else who is even discussing this at all….I myself am part of the LGBT community and i am telling you right now that this law is dumb as hell just like you and the others(who are not even a part of this community)….if your not smart enough to see that this has made such a big fuss because of social media…everyone keeps talking about this …including you….so shut the fuck up and let’s move on
You’re*
And do you mind reading things before you go off like a loose cannon at Gretchen? She’s on point.
PS…I am a trans man…
Solid point, although is this statistically proven that “most sex offenders are straight men?” And you are right, there should be, and there has been, moral outrage over the years, over countless other abuses, but it has not been adequately addressed. I argue, though, that it is because we are afraid of the words “right and wrong,” that we have failed to address the heart of the issue. It is illogical to continue saying “you can have sex however, with whomever, whenever you please,” but then draw arbitrary boundaries. It is difficult to prosecute a political figure for acting out sexual desire when we have a nationally legalized industry that perpetuates sexual gratification to the destruction of its participants. Prosecution should still, absolutely, happen, but it is difficult. It could become difficult to determine that it’s okay to surgically alter our reproductive parts, but not add cat claws or dog ears. It is difficult to say “you can have gay sex with a 30 year old man,” without eventually risking the determination that having gay sex with a 10 year old boy is also ok, if it’s how you “identify.” I realize this is hyperbolic, but it is intentionally so in order to make a point. I am not saying that all people choosing an “alternative lifestyle” are abusers (in fact, I believe that they are victims of the very same belief system that claims to “support” them), but that the mindset affirming it is part of what leads to abuses. Abuse of any kind is rooted in self-gratification, elevation of personal desire, over the good of another, and eventually destroys the abuser him/or/herself. It is rooted in a twisted understanding of personal “right” to what one wants, over the right of another. Eventually, when we make self and self-gratification our “god,” the likelihood is, that elevation of self will lead to the abuse of another. In order to reach a common ground, we must “go back to the beginning” and be willing to agree to boundaries dictated by our original design, or risk sliding down a slope on which there is little stopping. For if we cannot agree on the need for boundaries, how can we agree on when they appear? I argue that if we return to self-sacrifice for the good of another, to marriage within the boundaries which existed from creation, we would be “safe,” and eventually we would be fulfilled, not because of the “rules,” but because yielding to Love, as originally created, leads to life. I cannot imagine the horror of living with a desire that is considered “abnormal,” without hope of healing and fulfillment. It breaks my heart. I can, however, imagine the trap that comes of yielding to it, never being told that freedom is possible. I can imagine the trap that binds one to a lifetime of brokenness coming from being told you are nothing more than a robot, a slave to physical desire. But there is hope, and that hope lies in validating human life as precious, because it is created by One who calls us precious. His love for us is not based on our actions, and yet once we accept His love, He calls us to action, to obedience (which He promises us, He will empower us for). And in that obedience, we find true freedom.
“It is illogical to continue saying “you can have sex however, with whomever, whenever you please,” but then draw arbitrary boundaries.
…
It is difficult to say “you can have gay sex with a 30 year old man,” without eventually risking the determination that having gay sex with a 10 year old boy is also ok, if it’s how you “identify.””
You appear to be unaware of a breathtakingly important element of these kinds of issues. There are plenty of times when it is not ok to have gay sex with a 30 year old man such as, for instance, when he doesn’t want you to, or when he’s unconscious, or when he’s too drunk to know what his own name is. It’s not ok in times like this because of a thing called “consent.” Consent means that you understand what’s going on, and you’ve freely agreed to it without coercion. Sex “however, with whomever, whenever you please” is only ok when everyone involved is consenting. If you try having sex however, with whomever, whenever you please without the consent of everyone involved, then that’s a thing called rape, which is a crime.
The problem with equating gay sex with a 30 year old man with gay sex with a 10 year old boy is that you’re ignoring the fact that a 10 year old boy is far less mature, knowledgeable and experienced than a 30 year old man, and that his capacity to consent to sex with an adult is essentially nil. Sure, there’s a grey area somewhere between the 10 year old and the 30 year old – this is why age of consent laws vary around the world – but 10 & 30 are pretty clear cut cases.
To be honest, I question the logic that accepting gay sex with a 30 year old would lead to accepting it with a 10 year old anyway. If it were the case that one follows from the other, surely accepting a woman having straight sex with a 30 year old man would lead us down the path to accepting her having straight sex with a 10 year old boy just as easily? And accepting a man having straight sex with a 30 year old woman should also lead to our accepting his having straight sex with a 10 year old girl?
If acceptance of straight sex doesn’t lead to acceptance of opposite sex paedophilia, then why would acceptance of gay sex lead to acceptance of same sex paedophilia?
If acceptance of gay sex did lead to acceptance of same sex paedophilia, then why wouldn’t acceptance of straight sex lead to acceptance of opposite sex paedophilia?
I can just about see how you could justify the argument that acceptance of any sex leads to acceptance of paedophilia – it works as long as you’re hostile to the concept of consent – but the idea that gay sex leads to it while straight sex doesn’t utterly fails as long as consent is a factor. The same rule that allows for gay sex, or for gender reassignment, or, sure, even dog ears if you want to go for that, silly as that may be, still absolutely disallows sex with children, because they can’t consent.
As long as consent is the driving factor, there’s no need to fret about things like how allowing women to wear trousers may one day lead to the cannibalising of all our parents, because the women in question consented to wearing trousers, while our parents did not consent to being killed and eaten. On the other hand, as long as we’re enforcing nonsensical rules upon people without regard for who they are or for reality, we’re guaranteed to be violating consent every single day.
Sanity. Thank you for talking about convent with such eloquence, to even begin to tie the evil of pedophilia to consenting adults is…there’s no words for how awful it is.
But what is consent? Does it count if there’s been a lifetime of teaching that brainwashes one to believe something is ok if it isn’t? Does it count if a person is by nature needy of affirmation and so will go along with something that really, they don’t want, and maybe don’t even recognize it themselves? What if a seven year old was told from early on that they weren’t capable of saying no to a desire that may be passing, and over time, that message was reinforced, so a now-eighteen-year old “consents,” because they believe what was originally a lie? What if one woman has had a glass of wine and that’s just enough for her to personally lose inhibition, but not enough to legally render her incapacitated? What if someone who is sober and of “legal age” consents because they’ve believed something society says is ok, but will cause physical and psychological damage? What if they “consent” because they’re afraid of the opinion of society, or the person who asks, or because they believe they are slaves to physical compulsion and have no other option?
“Consent” may make something legal, but it doesn’t, by definition, make it morally right nor for the good of the one consenting, any more than it makes it the best thing for a person asking for a thing.
I didn’t say accepting a certain type of sex WOULD lead to another, in fact I was careful to note that I wasn’t making a blanket statement. My point was that without having a beginning point that does not move with time or whim or societal acceptance, we have no guarantee of a stopping point. However, scientifically speaking, we do know that addiction grows because by nature, it cannot fulfill. We do know scientifically that the mind that explores pornography, for instance, ever craves different kinds and more of it. That just like alcohol or drugs or even shopping, illicit sex has a potential to become an addiction, and eventually blur a person’s capacity to determine right from wrong.
With regards to “acceptance of straight sex,” the same reasoning holds true. If there are no boundaries that are agreed upon, that do not change with popularity or “acceptance,” then the potential for abuses to be accepted increases. I believe a case could be made that in often, indeed, a person who espouses “sexual freedom,” whether it be “gay” or “straight,” often finds that what they espouse is not enough and soon finds themselves seeking ever increasing opportunities to act out on what they determine to be their “right” or “need,” and eventually that potentially leads to harming another. And if “children can’t consent,” then why are we performing “gender reassignment” on small children? Why are books being written and people being applauded for this heinous act? Why are schools teaching small children how to have sex? Children are not given the opportunity to “consent,” because their minds are not even developed enough to understand that to which they are consenting. The fact is that we are no longer protecting the children, but training them in a lifestyle that will cause them harm.
Consent cannot be the driving factor, because the very definition of “consent” is ambiguous. This ambiguousness is what has led to the very injustices described in the original post. We haven’t prosecuted abusers adequately because our view of right and wrong is ambiguous. We haven’t been consistent because when “anything goes,” it is difficult to draw a line and say that “this thing doesn’t go.” Beginning from the beginning, from the nature of humans as they are created, both valuable and worthy of protecting in that state, is not a nonsensical rule. It is the most sensible thing we can do. When we begin from this point, although we will have many difficulties to navigate, we will always have an anchor to which we can return, one that does not sway with time or opinion.
I’m fascinated with this notion that so many Christians seem to be operating within, that gays become gay due to “brainwashing”. You mentioned sensitivity training in an earlier comment, now your inference to gay men and women somehow slipping into their orientation due to being exposed to environmental factors is paramount. First, we have just about the same percentage of gay men and women in our country in the last decade as we’ve experienced in the last five decades, it’s roughly 3% of the population. It’s not increased since gay marriage was legal or people started to accept it simply being mainstream. People are just talking about it now, accepting it more, instead of shoving it away or keeping it a secret. Also, the percentage of gay men and women from different kinds of childhood homes is also the same – you have the same amount of gay kids being raised in non-christian homes as you do Christian homes as you do atheist homes. People are simply gay. They were born that way, according to what they say and I prefer to give people the last word on their own experience on this planet.
Gretchen can I copy and paste this if I quote and give your credit? I feel so many never click to read. I just want people to read this! It’s awesome and gave me goosebumps! Good job!
Sure Andrea, if you can just include a link back to my blog that would be fine.
I stay away from this topic when I can as I come out with ‘you people are morons you need to get an education or ten stop being stupid and then I can talk to you.’ It’s frustrating as a trans person to just after gay marriage is legalized and frees up completely marrying my boyfriend, THIS HAPPENS so that we’re limited where the heck we can go.
And if my Aunt had balls…………….she would be my Uncle……Who really cares?
First of all our children today are soft and parents are responsible for the next generation of soft people who can’t handle when life doesn’t go their way. Second fights are breaking out already……..with TG women being assaulted by men.
Absolutely wonderful. I wish this to be read aloud at every city council, every state legislative session in every state when ever someone brings up anything concerinng the safety of women and children
What a stupid point that is.you didn’t have morals then so you should never stand for them .when exactly would it be ok?
She is asking why weren’t people standing up for these “moral” issues before and what makes this particular situation different. ALSO, You won’t even publicly stand behind your comment/question? You are hiding behind the exact thing that you are trying to take away from an entire group of people!
Reblogged this on Knotholes and Textures.
This was very well said. Loved all of it. So true too, I don’t recall hearing about boycotts or petitions for any of those things. It’s so sad that we live in a world where fear is controlling so many people.
This was fantastic. Thank you so much for writing it and saying what so many of us are thinking.
Absolutely brilliant.
Dear your silence is deafening,
I am one of the many people that are concerned about the bathroom issues. Thank you for not assuming that I am a “hater”, bigot or anyother label used to describe persons who are really worried about safety & privacy in public restrooms. Thank you for encouraging people to use their right to free speech to discuss & debate issues so at least we can understand each other’s point of view & reasoning behind it. We may not change each other’s minds but at least we will not misunderstand each other’s motives. You are correct many people have remained silent, oftentimes because they feel browbeaten or accused of being intolerant or hateful if they have another viewpoint. You are incorrect in assuming that persons have not been active in working towards trying to protect battered women or men, abused children, & every other social issue. There are groups, petitions, etc for everything from these issues including animals right & the environment. To suggest that persons who are concerned about bathroom safety don’t care about other issues is offensive & untrue. Let’s all of us stop judging the motives of others & accept that there are differences of opinion. The best way to settle these issues is to allow both sides of an issue to be discussed & debated civilly & then vote on it & let the majority rule. Both sides should abide by the outcome.
Robin,
The only problem with letting the majority vote is that the minority almost always loses. The reason we have the anti-discrimination laws is particularly because they protect minorities from mistreatment. Anti-discrimination laws are put in place to assure that everyone has equal opportunity, not preferential treatment. Do you really think that without proper legislation many minorities (color, race, creed, national original, sex, familial status, disability, etc) would truly receive equal and just treatment?
Perhaps you, as an individual, might treat them equally, but not everyone is quite so magnanimous.
If you re-read the article, the author was calling out the people that were posting across her own newsfeed. Yes, there are some generalizations, but at the same time, the point is valid. Where are the people that should be screaming about rape and violence? The “bathroom bills” have done exactly what they were intended to do: they aroused people’s fears and caused them to enact a piece of vile legislation that directly discriminates against a marginalized group of people, with farther reaching consequences than they intended.
Instead of passing these pieces of trash, perhaps they should be more concerned with the real underlying problem – violence, rape, misogyny, child abuse/neglect. Instead of slut-shaming girls for their bodies or clothing choice and teaching them to always keep covered for fear of rape, we might just need to start teaching our boys (and men & women, too) NOT TO RAPE!
And while HB2 and other bills were in the forefront of the media, your attention was directed away from a former US SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE (Hastert) being convicted of illegally structuring bank transactions to cover up his molestation of at least four young men. These are your leaders. The statute of limitations for his crime has run out, or else he would be facing far more severe consequences. Why is this okay? Even many of the current legislators spoke on his behalf, to lessen the sentence.
Instead of boycotting Target and allowing the majority to vote on minority rights, how about we pass bills that stiffen the penalties for violence and abusers, hmm?
Your “Christian values” have caused tremendous emotional, spiritual and physical harm against the GLBT community. People are furious with you and scared of you as a result and they are saying so. I suppose you can police their tone and expect them to speak their truth about the harm that you and the christian community have caused them as you “stand up for your morals” and that’s often what they’ve had to do because you’re all so self-absorbed? You walk away at the slightest hint that someone is mad at you. You are shocked and you get to just walk away the second someone makes you accountable for the impact of your vote by sharing how it’s hurt them.
And you’ll do that with me. You’ll dismiss me as being one of the angry ones who isn’t nice to you and because I’m not communicating civilly enough? Because i’m making you uncomfortable? You’ll just leave the conversation and go about your merry way. And that’s fine because I don’t expect anything out of Christians anymore, even the ones who want to write about how they are the “good” Christians who “have lots of gay friends” and are “totally cool with not respecting their lifestyle”. I don’t expect you to join me at the homeless shelter for teens where I’ve held dozens of gay kids who got kicked out of their “loving christian homes” for their “chosen lifestyle” who beg me to pray to God so He will change them so they can go home. I stopped asking you to clean up your own mess, the mess you and your community created by either voting in this nonsense about gay and lesbian and transgendered human beings somehow being substandard or unBiblical. I stopped expecting that you will SAY SOMETHING instead of silently standing by as your fellow Christians come on this forum, call gay men and women “abominations” and you just read it all, not saying anything. I’ve stopped wondering why you aren’t terrified about the gay kids who barely survive the Christian shame heaped upon them, the isolation, the terror of hell. This group who has such high risk of suicide.
I’ve stopped hoping that you’ll actually do anything except defend yourself and tell everyone how you’d prefer we express our total fear of you. Our disbelief at how thin-skinned, selfish and tone deaf you are. You know why? Because your feelings are the only thing you care about. The way you look to others is the only thing you care about.
And you know what the saddest thing about your reaction is going to be, Robin Custace? It’s going to be all about you and how I don’t know you or your efforts at all. But guess what? If I was wrong? It would be the Christians at the shelters with me, the same people who are telling gay kids that they are wrong before God and still expecting them to figure out how to change even though they are desperate to change so they actually get to go home. If I was wrong, the shelters for homeless kids would be filled by Christians who want to vote out of their values but who are mainly concerned with the impact of their vote not hurting anyone.
But none of you are there – seriously – none of you. As someone who used to be so drawn to Christianity, I was so confused why you weren’t but it’s those of other faiths, those that are atheist or agnostic that are there. If Christians are there, it’s the lovely, inspiring few who are willing to go against the grain, who take responsibility for the entirety of the Church they belong to – even the parts they aren’t responsible for- who are trying to manage the devastation that your “Body” has done. So if you’re planning on defending yourself? Just don’t. I stopped listening a long, long time ago.
You are absolutely right; you don’t know Robin, and what all she has done. Who are you to judge her. I’m Christian, and very tolerant of my LGBT friends and business associates. I’ve served many times in shelters, and been a shoulder to cry on many, many times. All Christians aren’t extremists, just as all who believe in Islam aren’t terrorists. Stop painting all Christians with a broad brush! Geez…
I’m so exhausted by the narcissistic defensiveness of Christians, it is vile how self-absorbed you are to actually read all of that and respond with your petulance. I’m always a little stunned to see it in action. Your “tolerance” of gay mean and women is a joke, Christians have collectively heaped so much shame and condemnation on these people that they have barely survived you. Think I’m wrong? Go watch the thousands of “it gets better” videos where people are encouraging gay kids not to kill themselves, how the consistent pattern is “I was raised in a Christian home and kicked out, I went to a Christian school and got beat up”. It’s endless and iits all there but you won’t watch it. Too scary, too much of a threat to you being wrong.
And tell me more about your shoulder to cry on in teen homeless shelters, let’s give you the benefit of the doubt. Have you held a gay kid sobbing, asking you to please pray for him or her because they are gay and their Christian parents told them that “God has forsaken them”. So they don’t believe God listens to them anymore but maybe if you pray for them, God will change them! I’ve had that happen no less than a dozen times and all I can do is cry with them. So what do you tell them? Do you say “gosh I’m so sorry that you got kicked out of your house, because your dad won’t tolerate your lifestyle, that sucks. Maybe if you changed and stopped being gay, your parents will let you come back! And hey that sucks that you got raped last night on the street but this is all in your control, if you just turn to God and stop being gay, it will all be fine!” Is that what it looks like? What advice do you have for that child who has liked boys the age most boys start noticing girls? What did you tell him when he called his parents who hung up on him? Tell me more. Or don’t because people like your who leave defensive comments like couldn’t give one shit about these kids and you know that. And you know that I know that. You will never let the suffering of these little ones change you. You’re too terrified of letting the world in that much.
It is ironic that you would call someone self-centered for reading all the comments thoroughly and responding thoughtfully, while in the same breath accusing them of not listening. No one should ever be told he or she needs to change behavior to gain the love of a parent or the love of God. God’s love is unconditional. He created each human being and although over time our own sin (yes, that is a real word) has marred it, He created us in His image. Because He is the creator and because He is all loving and all knowing, He also has the right and responsibility to determine the physical characteristics and calling He has placed on us. He may allow our personal or collective choices to effect an individual in ways we deem cruel, but He always, always offers a way “out,” a way to healing and wholeness. He is the maker, He loves us, He sets the “rules” for how we are to operate. Not believing this doesn’t make it untrue. In fact, over time, choosing to reject this truth has led to myriad wrongs and abuses, and far more deaths than ever caused by choosing to accept it. Just as a truly loving parent tells a child to stay away from the road or an electrical outlet, sometimes God tells us to stay away from destructive action. Coming back to the issues of gender identity and sexual preference; although there are rare cases where physical deformity causes special circumstances that must be addressed individually, it is the mass societal targeting through social media, television, and “sensitivity training” that has, in many cases, introduced innocent children into the so-called alternative sexual lifestyle as a valid option for gratification. Many times those children grow up to find themselves victims of a seduction that has led to nothing but self-defeat and lack of true fulfillment. Their lives have been reduced to nothing but sexual “pleasure,” and it is not enough. In fact, there are masses of voices and pairs of arms willing to hold the broken and say, “You are valuable. You are loved. You are more than a slave to clothing or sexual desire. You are a person worthy of living free of those things and walking whole in healing. You have a PERFECT Father who yes, does give you boundaries, because He loves you, and He longs to empower you to do the very things He asks of you. You are not alone, and you do not have to do anything alone. You can, not of your own strength, but with a yielding to the One who loves you perfectly, overcome any harmful desire and be free, because you are fearfully and wonderfully made, and you are FULLY LOVED.” You do not wish to hear those voices, and so you label them bigots and haters. Society does not wish to hear those voices, and so we have made it difficult and in many cases, illegal, to publicly voice those thoughts. By and large, society has chosen instead to believe that we are nothing more than accidental plasma, magically and meaninglessly “evolved” from animals. This kind of thinking does lead us to being driven by physical gratification and temporary “pleasure,” but it will always leave us hollow. It will never lead us to love.
I can imagine that saying all of this out loud feels really good. I’m sure you’re a lovely person who believes all of it. I think you like most Christians are probably really nice and feel terribly that kids are getting exploited and abused on every single street in America because they don’t have a place to live. So let’s do this, assuming you’re not involved in any kind of outreach work to homeless GLBT kids (no one who is speaks conceptually about them, not the ones I’ve been involved with over the years) how about you volunteer at a homeless shelter for 30 days. Be there 5x nights a week for 30 days. Then when the gay kids who got kicked out of their Christian homes finally feel comfortable enough sharing their horror story with you? You share a version of this with them in a way that will help alleviate the despair they feel over being 13 and told by their dad they are a “faggot” or sweetly told by their mom if they can’t change their lifestyle, they need to leave. I’m being absolutely serious – maybe you can help them because all of us there are so devastated and confused by the families that do this in the name of a “loving God” that we don’t have any answers. It sounds like you do so please come and join us. Come clean up the mess and the wreckage in their lives.
So now that you’ve processed that for a second and you’re more than likely based on my experience of offering this to Christians hundreds of times, formulating a response that justifies why you’d not do that? Let’s have a real conversation. It’s much easier to stay conceptual, theoretical. Isn’t it? It’s easy to talk *about* gay kids, about their sexuality and what you believe went wrong via “sensitivity-training” (?) instead of talking to them because if you get too close? You might encounter the possibility that you’re the one who’s wrong. And that’s terrifying, I know, I was raised as a Christian and it was really terrifying to realize that I might have been wrong about my family’s theology. I let the world inside, I let it change me. I let their suffering have the last word instead of them being who I needed them to be on my own to justify what I believed about them. And people like you will more than likely suggest that as a result, my mind is now reprobate and I’m deluded by the evil one, I know. I know it all. It’s fine, I don’t really expect you or anyone really to come and help, Christians don’t like to get involved too closely with people that challenge their internal and external narrative. That’s simply factual, they like to stay in comments like this one where gay men and women and kids are ideas.
If I’m wrong, I’m happy to connect you with some shelters or even better, to the Trevor Project hotline where you’ll get some real exposure to christian kids who are also gay and need help from the Christians who are telling them that they are a spiritual abnormality and that their sin (yes, I have a working knowledge of that term) is just like any other sin from which they can repent like lying or stealing; no Christian who’s made that comparison has successfully led any gay man or woman into repentance where they can actually stop feeling the desire to be gay like most who have an experience with Christ feel less desire to be a liar or a thief but maybe you’ll be different. Let me know. Thanks.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share so honestly and vulnerably. It is evident that you have been badly hurt, and I am so, so sorry. I am not willing to stay “hypothetical.” I am not going to make some excuse and tell you I can’t “go.” I have actually been praying and asking God to show me if there is some other place He wants me to be active, or if it is yet the right season. I know that in my current season, He has given me the ability to write, to share words that hopefully will incite thoughtful interaction, and that has been my first step.
As I type, my teenage daughter reads with me, and my heart races and tears sting my eyes for what you have walked through, and still experience. I am willing to be involved; for this reason, we invite people into our home, we share tea, and we talk “real talk.” I have spent the first season of my parenting life pouring into my children, hoping to teach them about genuine love, which, coupled with admission of personal guilt and repentance, opens the door for healing. It has been my commitment to stay involved with my own children, building a foundation of truth that will enable them to speak in love. To teach them that every person is priceless and worthy of love, not based on behavior but on their very existence as created beings. As they get older and as we determine they are maturing enough to handle it, we gradually open their environment to opportunities to show that love in action. When they interact with kids of differing values, we talk together about how to show love without sacrificing truth. We talk about intentionally modeling boundaries that lead to freedom, not because the boundaries have power, but the One who made them does. When they encounter a peer or an adult who lives a different lifestyle, we talk about not expecting them to live up to standards for the sake of standards, not letting rules become the focus, but rather introducing them, as opportunity arises, to the God who loves them and gave His very life for them. We talk about the very difficult and ever present situation in my own life, where I have had to draw boundaries for my protection from an abusive person, and how I am never far from asking myself and God if my boundaries are legitimate and honor Him, or if they need to be adjusted to show more love. But to be clear, I am teaching my children that love sometimes means saying “no.” And no matter what the world may say, that sometimes “no” is the best answer one can give, for our own good of the good of the receiver.
I will be honest and say that I have avoided some types of “community service” in this season, because I knew that building that foundation for my children was vital first. I believe many parents have neglected deep teaching, have exposed their children to outside influences before they were ready to maturely process them, and have unknowingly allowed the focus to become on rules and traditions, or the opposite, on “freedoms” and “rights” instead of on Truth in Love. While it is true that many (myself, included, in this tendency) struggle to eventually transition from boundary-setting as parents, to letting-go for our children to walk out for themselves, the love God offers them, it is also true that we have a responsibility to protect children and allow them to be children, teaching them their value and their purpose first. So to some extent, I have committed to be faithful in the season I’m in, with my first priority, my own children.
I have avoided some opportunities for service at times, too, because social policy has tied the hands of those, like me, who would sit and hold those teens and weep with them, but yes, also tell them that what they are doing is a dead-end trap that won’t lead them to life. That maybe, their parents closed the door because they believed they were enabling that trap to eat their children alive, if they continued to allow them to live in their homes and live the lifestyle. That maybe they thought to continue enabling it was the same as one who enables alcoholism or drug addiction, and at some point they had to let go and let natural consequences take their course, begging God to show light to that child. Or maybe they didn’t really “get it,” and they were nothing but abusive parents, self-centered and prideful, and then I would weep with them and say I can be the same way, God help me, and that’s why we both need help from the one Father who won’t let us down. He won’t kick us out, but He might still let our actions take their course. And all along He calls to us and says “I love you! There’s freedom in my love, in obedience to it!”
While I still have young children, I have been asking God to show me more opportunities to be “salt and light.” I have begun to pursue speaking boldly in love, through writing. And yes, I am open, if He calls and I am able to still fulfill my first duty to my own children, to sit with and serve kids who are trapped in this lifestyle and need love. Would I be told I could not offer them an alternative? One that involves accepting the unwavering love of God, and subsequently calls them to at least allow Him the opportunity to show them their eternal, original, whole selves? Would that be called judgmental, bigoted, or cruel, even if it came with my admission that in a thousand other ways, I am inexplicably drawn toward behavior that will only hurt me in the end? That my personal sins are no better, no worse, and no less desperately in need of redemption?
Thank you for your challenge. Yes, if there are places I can do this, I want to know. I will look up the organization you mentioned. In the meantime, I will keep teaching my children, keep loving the people who are in my sphere by speaking truth and offering hope, and asking for wisdom in how to interact with situations, and with people, who challenge my way of thinking, without sacrificing what I know is God’s way, and His way won’t fail, even when I do.
Angela you don’t need to pray to go love some gay kids and repair some of the damage in their minds and hearts that have been caused by Christian theology that tells them they’ve selected a lifestyle that got them kicked out of their homes. You seem like a really wonderful woman who’s trying to figure it out and I have so much respect for that! It’s really hard. I’m trying to respect you enough to be honest with you and also know you’ve got a tender heart that I need to treat with some gentleness but I still need to be direct. Words are no longer effective – repair is. Making amends to these little ones who are in despair by the very faith that was and is supposed to be a refuge and a rescue for them is respectfully, not a problem for those of us who didn’t create the problem to solve – it’s your problem to solve. It’s the Christians who believe this, you all need to find a way of solving it. Right now a lot of us who don’t believe what you do, who would never tell a child that because of her sexual orientation, she’s fallen and try as hard as she tries to repent? It doesn’t change. We’re not the ones who’ve created this dilemma for her. We are simply there, trying to help these children survive emotionally and even physically. I’m not being dramatic, that’s what we’re trying to do.
While you’re waiting for the right season, there will be a gay kid who kills himself today because he believes he might as well, he’s going to hell anyway and the pain of not being able to change that is insurmountable. Feel that sense of urgency that I know you do, you have a good heart and you’re trying to figure it out. It’s wonderful. Do it quickly, we can’t afford to wait. Do the good thing. Go check out a shelter, spend some time with the Trevor project volunteers. Learn as you go. You’re going to encounter some incredible human beings who might even be Jesus to you. You’re going to love it. Take care.
Thank you
Let me ask you a question. When you go into a public bathroom do you throw a party? no you go to the bathroom and leave. what if I was to tell you that 1 in every 20 times you go to the bathroom in the mall that at least one of the patrons in that bathroom with you was a transwoman. the only way you would know that is if you made a big deal about it. So let me ask you this, where is your concern??
A good reason to boycott target would be the sweatshop labor products. Sweatshops where child labor, sexual abuse are not just fear mongering but fact.
for all of you who believe in a magical, imaginary god, why is it so difficult to believe/understand/accept that maybe some people, (very few people), identify as female even if they have a penis, or that someone with a vagina may identify more as male?
*transman* I am a magical fairy unicorn *frolics?* Right Joolee? I’m doing this right? 😛 Oh! BTW I’ve been bullied in the bathroom by 13/14 year old CIS boys who were like freaking 6ft tall OMG that’s a foot on me… My boyfriend grabbed the pair after they rammed me into the wall by the door and dragged them out to their dad.
I AM A VICTIM OF RAPE AND SUFFER FRIM SEVERE ANXIETY ATTACKS!!!! Why should I not be entitled to peace of mind by having a bathroom made for WOMEN only???? Why should I be made to live in fear of being alone in a restroom and the CHANCE that a man may walk in and. ONCE AGAIN I WILL BE HELPLESS????? Don’t YOU DARE speak of rape unless you are a survivor of rape and have endured what WOMEN such as myself have been through#!!! Shame on you!!!!!
But we all know that criminals don’t obey laws. There is nothing to stop a sexual predator from entering the restroom that you are in alone unless there’s a guard at the door. I’m sorry you were assaulted but a law discriminating against a transgender person is not going to keep us all safe.
Laurie, I am so sorry you suffered from such a heinous act, my heart breaks for what you’ve been through and the lasting effect. I imagine you feel fear on a regular basis because of what happened to you. I imagine public restrooms are somewhat scary places unless they are full of other women. What we have been saying time and again is that this law does not put you in more danger. There is no evidence of that based on the states that already have these laws on the books. I totally understand that you might not take comfort in that because you have been through a horrible act of violence. I say this in love and as someone who gets it, I hope you have a place you can go to talk about what you’ve been through. I say this as a survivor of sexual abuse. Therapy was so crucial for me. I just want to add that many LGBT have been abused or assaulted in public restrooms when they’ve been forced to use the wrong one. There are many of them who share the very same fear you are expressing. I don’t want that fear or that kind of violence to visit any one. Not you, not a young boy who has to go into the men’s room alone and not a Transgender person.
Thankyou for understanding. I actually have a little boy. He is 6. But I will not let him use the public restroom by himself. There was a 10 yr old girl in the tiny little FL town I just moved from who was molested by a perverted old man in the WOMEN’S room of Walmart. I can’t understand how he was able to get into the restroom without anyone seeing him! But he did! After I read about it in the paper I was more determined than ever that I will NOT be letting my son use mens room alone…and I have to tell you…my fears for my own self because of my personal trauma and my fears for my son’s safety are NOT associated with transgender community. I am a “hippie” and I believe in peace and love and respecting individuality. But I am also a mommy who loves my little boy more than life itself. He is my world!!! I was also molested by a babysitter as a child so as you can understand I have experienced way too much sexual perversion and assault than anyone should have to suffer in their life time..and because of the trauma I have endured..I turned to the God I was raised to know for the peace that only He could provide..it’s the ONLY WAY I have made it through life (after several suicide attempts) so I’m sure you can also.understand why I would be upset with some of the comments on here containing nasty jabs at the Christian faith. I will not be made to feel ashamed of my faith and I thank God that my mother lived me enough to raise me in church so that I could know the unconditional love of our Savior!! Just as the LGBT community craves freedoms and respect..well so does the Christian community!!!! The Christians have been persecuted for all of time!!!! I would think that most of the LGBT community could definitely relate to those types of persecutions and stereotypes as both the Christians and LGBT have suffered the same treatment… It is not for anyone to “judge” another!! God judges bynthe heart!! If a person is good and kind and has a good heart..that is all He asks
.he does not judge by a persons “individual preferences”…so I do not understand why folks are blaming Christians for this predicament!!! That is “RELIGIOUS PROFILING” Please STOP!!! Of course I do not want men in the restroom! I have plenty of personal reasons to feel this way (andbit has NOTHING to do with my religion!!) It has more to do with my fear of rapists and perverted old men who prey on children!!!! But I also (as a victim of rape) and also a victim of physical abuse by my sons father. (he beat the hell out of me when I was 3 mos pregnant. I ALMOST lost my baby!! Thank God I didn’t!!)I am not pouring out my heart and telling my story of trauma to gain sympathy from anyone. .. I am sharing it so. You and others can understand not all people against the “men in restrooms” thing are bigots. There are people like myself who are. Lind caring folks who have legitimate fears..the. Severe anxiety I suffer from.just happens to amplify my fears more than normal…I totally understand the fears of the LGBT community ad well..and of course I am not blind to the. Dangers they too are facing…there is really ONLY ONE LOGICAL SOLUTION to satisfy both sides of this issue and ONLY ONE that will keep BOTH SIDES SAFE!!!! That is for SEPERATE bathrooms to be constructed for transgender community. That way transgenders can have a “safe place” and women and children can ALSO have a SAFE PLACE. BOTH sides deserve safety!!!! Agreed?????? So why can’t we be pushing for. Seperate teansgender bathrooms instead of trying to allow men in the ladies room??? Doesn’t that make MUCH MORE SENSE????
So how would you feel with someone trying to force you to use the men’s restroom? That anxiety that builds up at the prospect, the sheer utter terror…do you not understand that those same feelings are the ones that trans women feel about using the men’s restroom? Do you not understand that the majority of trans women agree that they would be infinitely more comfortable using the restroom without any men present, just like you? Because trans women are women. That’s what the “women” part of trans women means.
See, just as you were raped, most trans women have also been raped. It is terrible that it happened to you, and that it happened to me, and that it happens to so many of our sisters. But laws that would require trans women to use the men’s restroom are kinda like a rape sentence. Why would you want to send any woman into the men’s restroom? How can anyone support doing so?
Of course I inderstand the dangers that. The LGBT community faces…but letting men in the. Womens restrooms is not safe!! It is not fair for EITHER SIDE to feel unsafe!!!! The ONLY LOGICAL SOLUTION as I stated in a previous reply. Is to construct seperate Transgender restrooms so that they can feel safe and we women can also continue to feel safe. That simple!!
Whose silence has been deafening? Not mine!
Please get over yourself. I am NOT afraid to share the bathroom with anyone lesbian or homosexual. Do you think we do a freaking survey upon entering the restroom first? Do you? Because that is more weird than the “gender non specific” group.
So here is the deal. It’s not racist or homophobic to be concerned about males who would POSE as self identifying as a female males in order to perpetrate crimes against young girls or unsuspecting women. Which has ALREADY happened.
You can live in your plastic world until it all begins to unravel. Until then Target et.al will not have my business.
but gender id laws for bathrooms will not stop criminals. Because…they’re criminals. It’s in the job description
so these laws do nothing to prevent crime. Just let people pee in peace
if you don’t go to Target because of this, peace and fair journey to you. There are lots of people who feel that we all deserve equal rights and will shop are Target’s because it supports that
Here is the problem.
Singling out a group and allowing privileges that have been a certain way since public bathrooms were created.
Singling out a group and basically saying that if they relate to a certain gender, regardless of what their birth certificate states legally, they can have these privileges.
Singling out a group and allowing a change of a legal designation at will.
With that said, maybe the real oroblem(s) are going to create more problems.
I could relate to a 65 yearold ( my legal age is 53). Why can’t I change my age and be allowed privileges of a 65 year old. This would qualify me for Medicare and social security.
I could relate to a disabled person and demand privileges of disability.
I could relate to a different race and demand privileges of free college etc.
Re read what you wrote here. You are trying to get attention for something that really is not the true issue.
It’s about singling out a group that are demanding privileges that are not legally theirs.
bodykitchen63 because it’s not about “who they relate to” as you put it. It’s about the gender they are inside, regardless of the physical equipment they were born with.
what you’re saying is as inaccurate as the folks who talk about people “choosing to be gay” (which is different from transgender) Look at the kind of abuse they face from folks like you, up to and including violence, rape and death. Who the heck would make an arbitrary decision to live that life?
They are trans because that is who they are. Not because of an arbitrary choice such as you are proposing in your comment
and frankly, it is every American’s right to go to the bathroom. it is every American’s right to be free from the threats of violence, including rape. That’s the kind of thing a trans person has to choose from- going in a bathroom that fits their actual identity or going in the bathroom that fits their birth certificate and risking be beaten, raped or killed
or never peeing anyplace except in their own home. and that’s not right
saying they can’t use the bathroom that matches their gender identity is denying them the rights to pee that every American has. and insisting that folks must prove they have the right to use a bathroom is far more creepy and inappropriate
Thank you Catherine for answering that so eloquently. I think a general misunderstanding of what it is to be transgender is certainly part of this problem, the fear and misunderstanding. We probably could use better terms and language to make it more clear, something better than “the gender they identify with” but I’m not sure what those words would be and it would be up to the LGBT community to decide. I think some people think it is a whim, a temporary feeling, to decide you want to “be the opposite sex.” I don’t think most people realize that children are born feeling this way. With more acceptance we are seeing young children express this. Thank you for so patiently explaining this.
Well, usually the better terminology is just to talk about how trans women *are* women, or how trans men *are* men. Both trans people and cis people identify with their gender. It’s not some separate way that transgender people relate to their gender. It’s exactly the same as cisgender people. The only difference is that for some amount of time, people tried to tell the trans person that they were a different gender than the one that they are. It’s not about how a person feels. It’s about how a person is, and every kind of test has been used to conclusively prove that each person’s gender is set and unchangeable by the age of 3 (and possibly even before birth). Trans people don’t have something extra or something missing that makes them trans. Trans people are just like cis people. The only difference is how they’ve been treated: both by society and by individual people.
Separate terms aren’t needed to talk about trans people. We just need to talk about them the same way we talk about anyone else of the same gender.
I completely agree Nathilia. And I think when we can all, as in the general public, refer to Trans women as simply “women” (and trans men as men) we’ll know we’ve come a long way. I do think there is still a lot of confusion for a lot of people and I have been trying to find ways to say it succinctly and clearly. I’m not in the Trans community so I am not the person to try to change the wording and I have been trying hard not to get it wrong. I think there are a lot of people who do equate transgender with someone “dressing up.” I hope one day this will be a non-issue and everyone will just get it.
I agree What about our homeless veterans also. Target has a family bathroom, which anyone can use. Oh you didn’t know that? thenmost of you don’t go there anyways
Sigh… Candance, you’re so right. The way our country treats it’s veterans is appalling. The HB2 law in N.C. also strips veterans of anti-discrimination protections. Where is the outrage over that?
A well thought out article. I would add, “Where are your worries when pervs are in the bathroom with your sons? Why are you suddenly afraid for your daughters?”
it’s because they assume we trans men are adorable sexy women trying to look Dudeish…though I’m shorter than a lot of 13 year old boys >.< Because as I've said F is on my birth certificate. But I've got a beard worth a 25-30 year old man. I had a 13 and a 14 year old brother set try to bash me into a bathroom wall one time. So tell me how your sons are in such great danger. My boyfriend (I'm gay.) had to drag them out to their parents and shoved them into their dad's arms and tell him what they did.
Exactly Christine. And Solo, thank you for continuing to share your experiences here to enlighten everyone. I do think there’s a lot of confusion still as to what exactly it means to be transgender and definitely a lack of understanding of the hardships you face.
I don’t have any issue sharing a bathroom with Transgender or any other gender. I just think if you want to use the women’s room you should pee like a woman, sitting down in a stall.
Transwomen with the financial means for surgery would have no choice but to pee sitting down. A transgender person isn’t a cross-dresser. Many transgender women do not have a penis.
Sadly so do trans men generally. I don’t know any who don’t, myself included.
Who says trans women DON’T sit to pee? Do you know every trans woman in the world? I can almost guarantee they all sit to pee, regardless of genitalia. Stop being ignorant.
Brava, brave one…
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Thank you for this post! I am a 2 time rape survivor. I got pregnant as a result of the second rape. I speak out every day and I have wondered the same things that you wrote about. You so eloquently put what I have not been able to articulate.
Thank you Valerie <3
As I read through the article, I appreciated that it asked some of the questions I have. I concluded after reading that it was bialy written. References were made about the questionably stance of a presidential candidate, and the integrity of a Congressman and State Legislator….none named; however R-Kelly is put on blast. Wrong is wrong….name one, name all. I support the intend of sharing information promoting the respect and protection of women everywhere!
Spelling correction ****biasly***
I provided links to the articles about the others. The only ones I didn’t supply links to were the athletes because there’s simply been so many.
Spelling correction: ***biasly***
Almost
Also, I neglected to point this out. R.Kelly is the only one of those I called out who has a widely recognizable name. Naming the congressmen, etc would have not been as clear as stating their position of leadership. If any of them had a household name, I surely would have just stated their name. Also, R.Kelly’s case? You have to admit it’s one of the most egregious. He was actually videotaped raping minors. And doing unspeakable things to them. How often is there actual video evidence of these things? And he served no time.
Pathetic. Your article started out good enough…then you hooked us. Bait and click. Holier than thou. Of all of these things you mentioned, where were YOU? The same place everyone else was–not liking any of these things you mentioned but yet still sitting behind the safety of our computer screens, not doing a darn thing. WHERE WERE YOU?
I do plenty. I write about these things frequently. Sometimes they even go viral and get published in 7 languages and get millions of views. And I get emails and messages from people telling me how it opened their eyes or changed their view points or some that tell me how it helped them heal. I don’t usually go around patting myself on the back for these things, but you asked so I’m telling. I also volunteer. I also work on political campaigns occasionally to elect the leaders who I think will address these issues. But my writing is where I do this most often. I’m always ringing the alarm bells when injustice happens. I do what I can, I raise my kids to be aware of these things and to call it out when they see it, to stand up for others. I basically live my life by this stuff.
Forcing 99.97% of the population to bow down to .03% is called bullying. This issue is just showing how people are tired of political correctness being forced upon them and will start fighting back. This is just one example and Target is rightfully feeling it.
If some guy comes up and wants to use the woman’s bathroom while my 12 year old daughter is in there, he’ll have to get past me, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson first. You’re born with a certain set of genitalia, use the bathroom that corresponds with that set of genitalia. If it hurts your feelings, well too bad. Stop trying to traumatizing children to support your sick twisted fantasy.
I was labeled female at birth by the doctors, you would say no way if I showed you a photo. I have a beard, no breasts, and body hair.
There it is, ladies and gentleman. Here’s the guy you sit next to in Church and don’t do a damn thing about. This is the guy that most Americans are terrified of. This is the guy that actually threatens violence with guns and feels totally justified. Here it is. Where are you, christians? That’s right. You’re nowhere.
Hiram, I would venture that children will be more traumatized by people randomly and wantonly brandishing their side arms in public. There are too many people who are trigger happy and irresponsible with their guns these days. Be vigilant of your children in public. No one is suggesting you shouldn’t. But I am saying that public places are the least likely to impose real, predatory danger to your children. Most predators are not sneaking into ladies rooms. And most aren’t posing as transgender to sneak in. That is exceptionally rare. Right now there is an increase in men in the ladies room because they are protesting/responding to all of this hype. Or they are being planted there by these groups (the AFA.)
Outstanding article. to state an observation here, this hb2 law actually endangers natal women as well. I have seen alot of internet videos of actual women getting manhandled in bathrooms over ID. in fact it violates anyone’s basic right to use the washroom in a safe place. because it forces people to fall under scrutiny.
if anyone actually cared what this law does and who it implicates you would be ashamed of what you are doing. this allows cops. MALE cops to enter the woman’s room at any moment. and we all know that of all the people who have the authority the police also have the power to abuse it! what’s stopping an officer from raping a woman!. so when I read these comments I am to believe that this is about trans people? what about cis women? I have been abused in the past and I have also seen friends of mine beaten senseless with nightsticks and ultra violence over some guy wanting to force his will on someone else. does anyone see what the NC government has done? as long as a person isn’t looking in my bathroom stall or pestering me while I pee I don’t care who how would I be the wiser?
I am a lot more worried about some nutjob with a nightstick and a vest then anyone.
I’m lucky I am Canadian. I dont have to worry about that because if someone was going to disrespect the laws. lets face it they are going to disrespect the laws!
this is shameful and disgusting that people are so dead set against trans individuals. most of which do not have anything to do with this. in fact many trans individuals have been sexually assaulted or forced into violence and deplorable abuse.
over what? who they are.
what gives anyone the right to take away the rights of others without foresight to the consequences of their actions! has society gone completely insane?!
why cant we respect others for who they are? we are all humans not animals!
this law blatantly discriminates against women! it automatically assumes that women are fragile and weak and we need to have a man watching over us 24/7.
Juneau, just last week in N.C. a woman was escorted out of the bathroom by police. She was a woman but didn’t look like a “typical” female. So what about the androgynous people? What about my daughter who is a tom boy? If it weren’t for her long hair, would she be harassed? This law in N.C. opens up so many problems.
YES!! Yes and yes. So many excellent points. Gretchen, I would love to give you a high-five.
*high five* *fist bump* Thank you Kendelle. 🙂
Nice Posting. The real issue is not the desire for transgenders to use the bathroom of their sexual identity, but the heterosexual males who have sexually assaulted 25% of the women in this country or those who will be in their life times.
That requires a fundamental change in our thinking. Wouldn’t it be nice if being a racist or a rapist was the worst thing you could be, instead of telling LGBTs that they are?
Well said, Tom. Your last sentence? Perfection.
You make an incredibly valid point, and it took courage and eloquence to do so. Except that the very “silence” you describe is often not silence, but a soft-spoken move of help and healing. Hearts open and homes growing through adoption and hospitality. Relationship building and acts of service that seek to address physical needs while getting to the deeper rooted causes of suffering. Voices saying that sexual abuse and gender confusion and gun violence are all rooted in lack of understanding of the priceless value of human life, and the Creator of that Life gave us the answer to those issues long ago. Accept the love and forgiveness He offered us through His personal sacrifice, and live as He instructs us to live. And sometimes that means saying no to our impulses and desires and “rights” for the good of another, especially one younger or weaker or without defense. That’s the voice that is quietly offering hope. And sometimes we yell it, too, when we get frustrated enough, because the world around us seems to be too busy focusing on in-the-moment self-gratification as a short term placebo for a disease that cannot be fixed without going back to the Manufacturer. So while your point is well made and applicable in many cases, it misses the heart of the matter. All human brokenness has one permanent solution: refer to the instructions of the “Manufacturer.” Until we do that, we will never be healed, whole, and effective. And our tendency will always be to point at the people around us and the circumstances in which we live, instead of seeing our own desperate need for forgiveness and healing. This I know because I, too, have the same tendencies. The little child’s song is true. Jesus DOES love you. And me. And all broken people and all people who think they aren’t. And sometimes the sheer amount of people and brokenness means we become numb or overwhelmed and stop speaking. And sometimes it means we have to choose when and where we feel we can be effective in speaking. Sometimes we are held up by our own brokenness, and sometimes we just can’t take it anywhere more and we want to stop the hurting and so we shout. But I promise, we have not, not all of us, been silent. And for the times we have, forgive us, Papa. Because this very backwards, self-reliance-addicted world is failing, and we need you desperately.
What did transgenders do before this? How did a man transgendering to a woman get into a men’s restroom? Wouldn’t someone stop him? Wouldn’t he/she risk getting beat up or attacked? Can you imagine a woman transgendering to a man walking into a woman’s bathroom? I can hear the screams now. Don’t the people getting upset about this wonder why they didn’t see “woman tries to go into male restroom” or vice versa on the news?
I’ve…never been stopped…because I look like a short dude? I have a beard. I was born and labeled female by doctors though.
You are my HERO! YOU’VE SUCCINCTLY said everything I WISH I had on the subject. But you’ve done a MUCH better job than I ever could!!! Thank you so VERY much for telling the unaware the TRUTH!
Check the facts below. Target has no concern for anyone’s safety in their restrooms.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/04/23/twenty-stories-proving-targets-pro-transgender-bathroom-policy-danger-women-children/
Oh, very nice. Far-right leaning article, grouping together stories and misinterpreting information. Good find.
So I read that Breitbart article a few days ago too. NONE of the 20 crimes cited were committed by transgendered persons. Further, all 20 crimes, from what I could tell, were prosecutable under EXISTING laws prohibiting indecent exposure, (video)peeping, rape or sexual assault.
So, your “facts” prove just the opposite: these bathroom gender laws do nothing to help stop or prosecute behavior that isn’t already illegal.
Thanks for trying.
If you truly want to help prevent these crimes, please support and advocate for greater availability of mental health counseling, both for the perpetrators (in and after jail), and for those who have the tendencies to commit these crimes but have not yet done so!!!
Yes, G. Thank you. The articles and fallacies being put out there by Breitbart and the AFA are ridiculous. They have scoured the news for any story (some of them going back years) to try to paint these incidences as “evidence” of danger. Peeping, video taping and assaulting have always and always will be illegal. Maybe if we changed the laws to make the punishments for these offenses harsher? Maybe that will “protect the women and children” much more effectively than spreading false stories? Thank you for pointing all of that out.
I’m only concerned that my “safe space” has been violated. I use the ladies room as a refuge to retreat to. Aside from the usual functions I can adjust my bra, my hair and makeup. I’m a private person.
So does this mean when there is a long line for the ladies room, at the airport or theater, that I can now invade the men’s room? The guys at the urinals might object to that but hey, if I identify with the male gender why not?
For the love of decency and humanity. Can we all understand what is meant when we say “identify” when it comes to a transgender person? They are not deciding on a whim. It’s not a flight of fancy. Please listen to what so many of them are trying to tell us. They are born knowing their body does not match who they are. It’s biological, not mental. And yes. You may have to get used to adjusting your bra in front of transgender women in the bathroom. Or you could do it in the privacy of your bathroom stall. This is but a small thing when you consider the real actual abuse transgender people have endured when forced to use the wrong bathroom.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that trans women are NOT men? Come in the men’s room all you want, I don’t give a shit. But trans women are NOT men. They are women. And they belong in the women’s room. They don’t give a flying fuck about you, they just want to do their business and leave. Stop being selfish.
I’m a trans man…nobody talks bout us going in the men’s room cuz we’re ‘all cute girls probably’. (Many have facial hair or are taller or are hairy! Just like men) And men should be way more afraid of me…if I were actually concerned about their dicks…I’m gay?
I’m a fat, hairy, bearded gay trans man myself lol. I know which restroom I belong in! And yeah, totes not interested in guy’s dicks in the bathroom, just saying 😛
Though I’m not one bit… :/ I just wanna pee…..
I’ve been battling abuse, rape, assault and such for years and years. I’m concerned about my children and grandchildren. But, I’m not afraid. That’s why I haven’t joined in the chorus of “Boycott Target”.
Intelligent because frankly I’m in the bathroom to bio not bother others.
Michael, I am too. I am very concerned for my children. And for all of the vulnerable population. I have become more vocal and active and writing about these issues as my kids get older. I have to work real hard to balance my concerns and fears with logic and facts. Otherwise I’d keep my kids in a bubble, which obviously wouldn’t be healthy. Thank you for being in on the fight against the true problems.
I don’t care what bathroom anyone uses, but legislating it is stupid.
To all you guys who identify as woman: When you are at bar at the Jersey Shore, sporting event or other venue where the ladies room is 30 deep remember this is what you fought for. wait your turn !
To all you woman who identify as male, When in a men’s room: never lift the seat and always dribble something on the seat. We are just marking our spot!
No offense but when they do a female to male sex change, the plumbing works differently sexy. And my boyfriend is born male and doesn’t piss on the seat like a lazy ass straight loser.
My worry is not more rapes or perverts coming into the bathroom. That already happens. My worry is young children being exposed to genitals of the opposite sex. I have accidentally opened a stall door on someone who didn’t have the door properly locked. And some bathrooms have wide enough cracks that you can see in.
More importantly my fear comes from what is next… Locker rooms. If they have the right to use the bathroom of their choice, then won’t they also have the locker room of their choice? Now we are talking about grown men and woman dressing next to young children. Does this seem right at all?
Why should the rest of us have to suffer, just because some people have their feelings hurt? Transgenders could be fighting/pushing for their own bathroom or for a unisex bathroom. They shouldn’t be imposing on us and trying to force the rest of us to be comfortable with sharing a bathroom with them.
There is a reason that women’s bathrooms do not have urinals in them. Bathrooms were not set up and designed for how one dresses, thinks or feels. It was set up according to the genital one pees from.
You are a piece of shit just like this article says. Mens rooms also have stalls. Where are you on the news articles about judges finding it’s fine to rape a woman while she’s drunk as long as it’s oral sex?? How about 45 days for raping a 14 year old girl? WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU? ARE YOU ON IT ON THOSE ISSUES?
The worthiness of one’s opinion is often invalidated in a debate by the lack of respectful, logical communication. This sort of name calling and hijacking of topic fits into that category. Rather than intelligently addressing the point made in the comment, you have reduced yourself to make name calling and situational references that have nothing to do with the commenter’s respectfully worded and valid question.
I will delete comments with ugliness or name calling Solo. Please keep the comments productive. Angela I’m very sorry.
Thank you so much, Gretchen. While we disagree, I appreciate the intelligent discourse, and it is my goal to continue in kind.
Gretchen you are singlehandedly for me, erasing years of suspicion and fear of the Christian community by allowing us to speak our truth so bluntly. I’ve never encountered a Christian who allows those of us who are so angry, so deeply disappointed and frightened by the actions Christians take due to their belief system to speak so freely on their blog. Out of respect if I’m ever crossing the line please let me know and I’ll stop. I cannot tell you the impact you’ve had on me. Thank you for being so willing to come close, to come face-to-face with so many of us who are so terrified by the Christian community and so exhausted by the platitudes that cover so much harm. Thank you for the courage it must have taken to stand against them collectively and even some of your friends; that’s what Jesus must have meant when he talked about going into the wilderness. That’s what people like you do and those of us who are desperate to believe in a loving God but don’t know how to in the midst of all of the tone-policing and hostility and bigotry wrapped up in Bible verses and platitudes need people like you. Thank you.
drinsf… I feel like I need to explain. And I do really hate getting into religion. But I don’t want to mis-represent myself either. I do consider myself a Christian. But I don’t belong to a church. I don’t take the bible literally. I believe in God. But I can’t buy into some of the rhetoric that too often accompanies religion. I have a personal spiritual relationship with God. Most of my friends don’t know where I stand on religion, I avoid the subject because I live in the Bible Belt and it’s just too delicate and too personal for most people.
What I will say is I’m put off and turned off when people use religion to justify hatred or discrimination. Or when they actually believe that being LGBT is a sin. I am sickened by all of that. I also know that a lot of Christians are sickened by that as well. They are tired of the extreme zealots making them all look like fanatics. So, while I am a Christian, I am certainly not your typical garden variety going to church every Sunday type. I would say I lean more spiritual than “Christian.” But yes, I believe in God, just in my own personal way. I’m sure I will get a flurry of “You’re not really Christian” comments from some, but that truly doesn’t phase me. I will never understand someone trying to tell someone else what their spiritual beliefs are or should be. I’m not saying I don’t get scared or nervous to speak about these things, I do. People can get really angry and unhinged over this stuff and that’s frightening. I’m just trying real hard to own what I believe and not apologize for it if it doesn’t fit into someone’s box. Thank you for all that you said, I’m just not sure I deserve that.
Stop thinking you have the power to tell everyone how to communicate. Do you know how hurt, scared and furious people are wig the conservative Christian community? No one is interested in your tone policing. People are finally saying exactly what they think and feel and you can’t handle it, so you try to manage how they say it. No one expects you to change and honestly? Your feelings aren’t the priority. Stopping you from causing (more) harm is the priority.
I am not tone policing – you have said what you wanted to say, how you wanted to say it. I am merely pointing it out. I do not feel I can’t handle it, which is why I am engaging in respectful, intentional conversation. I did not address my personal feelings here, but rather expressed concern for the very people who are being harmed by perpetuated lies. I do, however, want to point out the blatant double standard of saying my feelings aren’t the priority. While I agree with you, it is a double standard to say mine don’t matter, while another’s matter more. By contrast, I am saying that others’ feelings DO matter, which is why it is important not to continue offering quick-fix “solutions” to long-term heartbreak, that are based only in physical gratification. As far as my changing, I am being changed day by day, and deeply challenged to listen to others’ perspective, while being unwavering in offering the truth in love. As far as truth, it does not change. Brokenness perpetuates brokenness.
Yes, you’re tone-policing. In several of the comments you’ve made here Angela, you’ve addressed the manner in which people are speaking instead of addressing the comment itself. You’re making the conversation about how it feels to you, what you prefer people say to you and how they should say it instead of just listening through the anger and pain. And that’s what people with privilege often do, they subtly demand that others use language that works for them instead of choosing to enter in to the rage and pain that the other person is feeling. Perhaps you need to consider embracing the reality that there are a lot of us who are simply terrified by the Christian community of which you’re a part and also represent as you enter in to these conversations. We’re exhausted by these laws you put into place, by the harm that you commit against gay kids who barely survive their childhood (one out of four are at risk for suicide, that’s a higher percentage than straight kids) because of your theology. That is simply the reality. You may not like it, you may not agree with it and you clearly don’t want to engage with it but I wonder if Jesus asked those in pain to speak a little more nicely before he entered in? I doubt it. It’s strange that His followers do.
I’m not addressing how I’m being spoken to based on my personal feelings. I can “take it.” I know that often, we speak out harshly, from pain. My point is that name-calling and foul-mouthed spouting off doesn’t promote intelligent discourse, which I what I think the article intended to do. I didn’t put laws into place to harm gay people or transgender people. In fact, I think Gretchen has hit a key point that laws have failed to protect people in general. And I do find it sickening that gay kids have high tendencies toward self-harm and suicide, but where we differ is that I see that it is the lifestyle itself and yes, often the misplaced actions of those who do not genuinely understand love, not the love of those who would genuinely seek to offer freedom, that causes the harm. It is the lie told to kids that they are slaves to sexual desire and have no hope for help, that leaves them in despair. Hopelessness ensues from being told you can’t help the trap you’re in, that you’re nothing but an accidental conglomeration of cells, that you’re doomed to it for the rest of your life, and that those who would seek to help you find freedom are wrong.
What makes you think I don’t want to engage with it? This is not asked in a tone of sarcasm, but genuine desire to know. Because you don’t know me, I am thinking you are making an assumption based on your personal hurt and on general assumption about me based on what you’ve observed by others who say they believe the same things I do. Who say they know the God I know (perhaps even your own family), but miss the mark on the fullness of who He is and what He has to offer. My theology would offer these kids nothing, but my God would offer them the world; He already has.
I am genuinely sorry that you and others are terrified of the so-called Christian community, or that you may view me as “privileged,” and therefore unable to offer a valid insight and hope. I am as broken as you are, my fears and sins no better or worse than yours, and I need God. I fail, and I fail often. But I have hope because God is hope, and He always holds it out to me, because He made me and He loves me. The same holds true for you. No platitude, no rules, no lifestyle choice will offer either of us that hope, only the One who has the power to give it to us.
Kristy, this is not AT ALL about transgender’s feelings. This is about their safety. There are other countries who have unisex public bathrooms and there is no issue. There are states that have had these laws for years with no increase in bathroom assaults or peeping or other illegal behaviors. This article does an excellent job of explaining all of that:
http://mic.com/articles/114066/statistics-show-exactly-how-many-times-trans-people-have-attacked-you-in-bathrooms#.hoHpioteA
There is a huge campaign by the AFA to gin up fear. They are even planting men in Target restrooms right now (this is actually what their representative said on a radio show.) You have likely visited a state that had a pro-transgender bathroom policy and used the public restrooms and didn’t even realize it. Because it looked and felt no different from what you’re used to.
Gretchen, I may have missed it and I would genuinely like to know, where is sourcing for the times transgender people have been harmed by using public restrooms? If the media and legal flurry is really about protecting transgender people, are there unbiased sources that show they are in danger en masse, enough to warrant changes in law? If so, any genuine Christian person (I’m not talking about so-called right-wing merely political conservatives, but someone who genuinely knows and loves God and accepts Him for who He says He is), would be outraged at this. I am not saying it does not happen, because clearly it does, just as kids have been beaten and shot because they say they are Muslims or Christians (although do not mistake me, I am not equating sexual identity with religion. Some might argue that it has become its own “religion” of sorts, but that is perhaps a different discussion). Any abuse, as you pointed out in your post, is worthy of outcry. However, I’m concerned that this is just a media ploy to continue to promote an agenda. It’s my belief that laws passed to enforce public restrooms as gender-specific are somewhat based on what is believed is protecting the innocent (as is evident in the genuine outcry of those who have been victimized), somewhat based on desire to protect tradition, and somewhat backlash to a growing infringement on the rights of many, for the “protection” and “freedom” of others.
Who ever uses the restroom, please keep it clean! I hate the urine smell of a guys restroom. One of the reasons in life to be thankful I am a girl!
I’ve had to clean both men’s and women’s washrooms, and I can tell you that when it came to cleanliness, the women I picked up after were far worse. They left long hairs all over the sinks, they kept missing the basket with their paper towels after drying their hands, they clogged the toilets with used tampons and sanitary napkins, and because they wouldn’t touch their bums to the seats that I’d cleaned and sterilized daily, they covered the seats with layers of toilet paper, which they then proceeded to hover over and pee on, and which dried out and hardened and had to be scraped off. The most I ever had to deal with when I cleaned the men’s can was when the guys missed the urinals, and since I would be routinely washing the floors anyway, there wasn’t a lot of extra work to do.
Hah! As someone who’s cleaned both men and women’s restrooms, I can tell you with complete certainty that the women’s room has been nastier 100% of the time… So hop on down off that high horse, sister.
Even better question: Why is the transgender gay man going to bat for these women and children and those of you who claim to be concerned are silent…so silent if a pin dropped the next galaxy over and y’all were the only idiots here…it’d make a resounding crash…so where are you people?
Why am I speaking regularly for these people…but you are silent?
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe its hard for some of us trans people to out ourselves in some places because of things like this. I myself am glad that I am canadian. I am free to walk down the street and use any public bathroom that I like without fear.
You make some good points there.
I give you a standing ovation. I am so glad you wrote this and if I could meet you in person I would hug you. That was simply BEAUTIFUL.
As a transman myself I Never bothered to look at who was in the bathroom with me I just used the bathroom washed my hands and left. I can guarantee you as I have many transwoman friends that just want to go to the bathroom wash their hands and check their makeup. They don’t care whose doing what in the bathroom either.
Thank you Zander.
Reblogged this on psychanne and commented:
On point.
Gretchen:
You wrote: “I’m talking to you… the people who have no issue with sharing a bathroom with LGBT people.” OK, so I’m one of those people who has NO ISSUE with it, that is to say, I have NO PROBLEM with trans people using whichever bathroom they are comfortable using. And you’re angry with us who don’t mind? Why on earth?
Or did you mean to write: “I’m talking to you… the people who have AN issue with sharing a bathroom with LGBT people”? If that’s what you meant, then you know what to do.
Doug
Yikes. I think someone else asked me the same thing and it makes me want to go back and re-word it.
What I meant was that I think there are a lot of people who have no problem with LGBT. But some of them are fearful of the idea of a predator being able to take advantage of these laws and prey on women and children. That’s what I seem to be hearing the most from some of the Target Boycotters. So, this was intended to speak to them. My intent was to reach out to the reasonable people who are not hateful or anti-LGBT and point out the reality (that these laws don’t increase assaults) and that if they are truly worried about women and children then there are issues that are the core of their fear that they can raise their voices to join the fight in. Does that clear it up? Sorry for any confusion.
Reblogged this on Matt Mattila.
Help! There’s a man with a vagina in the bathroom! https://watchingthewheelsdad.net/2016/04/21/help-theres-a-man-with-a-vagina-in-my-bathroom/
*Stands on desk to clap* Yes! This was excellent! Thank you for sharing this! You have a new fan and I’m kind of wanting to forgo answering comments here to read some more on your blog…
And please tell me that your blog name is because you’re a John Lennon fan?
Whoa whoa whoa… I agree with a lot of what you said. I’m all for gay rights and I sure as shit don’t have a problem with transgendered bathrooms…. in fact, I’m sick and tired of gay individuals and transgendered individuals getting shit on by a society that not only doesn’t understand them, but downright fears them, for no other reason than the fact that they are attracted to people of the same sex or happen to be different from so-called “normal” people… but to then read something like “children who were mowed down by white male outrage….” Come the fuck on. Obviously, I’m a white male. And no, not all, or even, perhaps, the majority of us are bigots or racists or sexist or anti-gay…. it gets pretty fucking old being told repeatedly that you’re the bad guy. Why does there always have to be a group that gets the finger pointed at them? Cause if I had to hazard a guess, I’d be pretty fucking confident in saying that there are people who are not Caucasian OR male who are also making a big stink about this stupid kind of bullshit…. You know, like maybe some black females who have a problem with transgendered bathrooms due to a misguided fear of their child being molested, or Asian males, or Hispanic females or males… you see where I’m going here? People are people, and they tend to fear the unknown, no matter what race or sex they may be. I’m a very accepting person, and I know a lot of white males who happen to have the same views as myself on issues such as these, and therefore I get pretty fucking mad when bullshit like this is somehow an issue that “white males have.” It’s untrue, it’s unfair, and, quite frankly, it’s bullshit. Just because my skin is white and I have a dick doesn’t mean that I’m unable to empathize with individuals who are different than I am, and to imply such a thing is no less ignorant than to assert that an individual is less capable or somehow less human just because their skin happens to be brown or they happen to have a vagina. Your message is good for the most part, but lose the high and mighty “white male” bashing part of it. Because frankly, it’s bullshit, and I’m sick of having other individuals such as yourself trying to portray me as something I’m not.
Sigh… I understand why that wording bothered you. I do. And I don’t paint all men with that brush. Trust me. Peruse my blog and you’ll see. What I was referring to with the “white male outrage” is the incidences I had just referred to. The trigger happy shooting of these black boys. There have been numerous studies as to the psychology of these shootings. The fact that white people view young black men and women as much older than they are, therefore they are seen as more of a threat than their white peers. Sooooo many examples of white men shooting black boys in a hair trigger, split second moment. There was the boy who was shot by his white male neighbor while taking out the trash because the neighbor thought he was trying to break into his home. A white man shooting a black boy over his car radio. I’ve done research in the past when I’ve written about racism and it’s scary and upsetting. The “white male outrage” comment is in relation to these children being killed. Or the girl being thrown to the ground by a school police officer. Or the black girl being thrown to the ground by a white male police officer at a pool party. It is more than a trend. And no, not all white males. Not my husband or my Dad or most men I personally know. But this is a thing that needs to be discussed. Tip toe-ing around it to spare feelings will not help anyone. And unfortunately, the majority of sexual predators are white men in their 30’s. This is also a statistic I’ve seen many times over on reputable studies. I do understand your anger and frustration. I would say, as someone who appreciates your passion over this, that your anger could also be directed at these men. The ones who are adding to this narrative with their destructive and deadly actions. But truly, I do appreciate your comment. I have a heavy heart over all of it.
I’m not understanding any of this. When I going to the bathroom, I need to urinate/defecate. As a cis woman, I go into a stall and do that. Any sort of people could be lingering in the bathroom, perhaps even holding a dance party, it affects me not because I close the stall and I do iWhat I have to do.
There have been times when, as a cis woman, there were no woman restroom stalls left, so I forged ahead into the men’s room to do my business, and I saw penises, and who cares? They are penises! It’s just a body part, like an elbow.
I have small children, and no one who is going into a bathroom to do their business gives a care about those children. They just need to do their business, and then leave. Why can’t we all just chill? I go to men’s rooms all the time, nobody reports to me as being a perv?
I too have used the men’s room. One time I got into heated words with a man after using a single, private men’s room at a restaurant. He was livid that he had to wait to use it, while there was a line for the women’s room. Someone earlier mentioned that in Sweden most public bathrooms are unisex and that it took some getting used to but it’s really no big deal there.
If I may offer one slight suggestion. I wouldn’t call it a pro-transgender bathroom policy. I’d just call it a non-bigoted bathroom policy, or even a non-douchebag policy. (pardon the language)
Great article though. Well said.
Ha! You know, I do think the language we’re using isn’t helping. It’s too confusing and too clunky and probably being misunderstood by many people. (and thank you for your comment)
What an awful letter. What total presumption and lies.
about 17 years ago I had a stalker. I wasn’t aware of how much he knew about me and how much he was stalking me until he walked right into my home and proposed marriage. He had other ideas as well, but was focused on marriage and I blessedly got him out of the house and called the police. I saw him a few times after that.
I’m sensitive to seeing men on my property without knowing why they are there. It happens. utility people that don’t think to call first. My landlord when we rented would just walk in. until I threatened him.
I’m very sensitive to men being where I don’t expect and where I feel safe.
I have been writing for and working with Rape victims since my mission in south africa.
My first response to their policy was…how are victims of sexual assault going to feel?
I have helped a woman in hiding from her abusive husband.
I have fed homeless women and donated to shelters and safe houses for women.
WHY did the stupid government get involved in the first place? That AWFUL law in NC with it protection of business against discrimination law suits and horrible minimum wage junk…
People should use the bathroom they present-that’s what was happening before.
you want me to believe that a few weeks proves your point? as if I don’t understand that a massive social change wouldn’t really be obvious in a few weeks?
what idiocy. total and complete idiocy.
If you click on any of those links (the red text in my post) you will see that the evidence is not based on a few weeks. 18 states have had this law. Some of them for quite some time. (I think it is Minneapolis that has had it since 2001 with NO increases in bathroom assaults)
This did not become an issue until the AFA made it an issue. An organization who is no friend to women’s rights or rape victims, by the way. They are planting men in Target bathrooms according to some articles I read yesterday. By their own admission. The transgender people who were forced to use the wrong restroom were suffering from the same fear you mention. They have been abused and assaulted and even raped in higher numbers than the rest of the population. THAT’S why these laws have been passed. Be on guard, protect yourself wherever you go. As a victim of assault it is probably your instinct to do so. But to look away while others are being abused and assaulted is unconscionable.
HAS ANY ONE TAKEN THE THOUGHT…of ??? Wasted amount of time spent on this topic? Each person should be able to pee or take a dump in peace…If they are there to do improper or lewd acts ..then they should be reported and arrested…Obviously more republicans or politicians in general will be arrested…Just ask Dennis Hastert!!
This is an incredible article! Thank you for saying all the things I’ve been feeling but couldn’t really find the appropriate words!!!
:;Long Slow Clap and Standing Ovation:: This.Right.Here.
Thank you Tanya.
I would like to know if you were outraged by the sexual assault on Paula Jones by Bill Clinton and his other victims – Kathleen Willey, Eileen Welstone, Juanita Broderick and others. Just curious because you didn’t mention it.
Why didn’t you mention Dennis Hastert?
Or Mark Foley, or Larry Craig. How about that John Ensign who used to be that loud-mouth Senator who had to quit?
You didn’t mention the dead black girlfriend of George Bush, the bastard teenage son kept secret by Bob Livingston, or New Gingrich bending his 3rd wife over his Speaker desk before she was No. 3 but after his promise to God to love, keep and cherish No. 2 wife?
Come on you Christian Conservative, tell us about just this handful of Conservatives who should all be in state prisons. Not the pot smokers, nor those who couldn’t pay a traffic ticket.
You hypocrite!
Gretchen I have an idea. Invite all those men who sometimes feel like women over to your hose to use the potty. Get back with us in six months and share with us how that is working out for you. You know, I am not worried about transgender s using the same bathroom I use, so I guess you would consider me part of the silent majority. But then I am a man you moron and can defend myself against perverts. it’s kids I am worried about you fruitloop.
I have another idea. How about coming back at this without the straw men and the name-calling so people might actually take your comment seriously?
My sentiment exactly, why all the name calling? You certainly have a right to your opinion.it is still a free country; but you don’t seem to afford that right to anyone other than yourself.
Mean girl, huh?
So, then, you’ve been advocating all along the safety of the children mentioned in the article above, right?
I am a woman, you moron. I can defend myself. Very well. Maybe better even than you. I am a WOMAN. The one you fear for. The one you’re speaking for… And I do not fear transgendered. You, straight man, are the BIGGEST threat to my kind. YOU are the ones with raging testosterone. You are the ones who assault and take advantage of my kind. YOU are the ones who threaten us. Not people who were born with the wrong genitals and are pumping their bodies full of estrogen, desperate to get rid of anything that resembles you.
If you’re so worried about your wife/gf/mother/sister teach them to be aware of their surroundings. Teach them how to defend themselves against your kind. Don’t let your children go places alone in public… And understand who the real threat is.
Another conservative Christian checking in with his example of why we should all follow his faith– wait a minute, no it’s not. This hostility is creepy.
You are so naive. The idea of a man who has bad intentions being able to go into a woman’s dressing or bathroom and not be questioned is an accident looking for a place to happen. There are only 700,000 cross dressers in the US and there are already 1,300,000 signatures. Typical left wing misandric confusion. The article is naive and dangerous. Embarrassingly naive wo
man with delusion in her eyes. YUK!
Answer this question: How are these “bathroom bills” protecting young boys from being assaulted by male predators in men’s restrooms?
And yet another example of a “loving Christian” who is providing such a loving witness to the thousands of non-believers reading this, calling the author of this post deluded and naive. I would bet a year’s salary that he’s the first to start screaming if anyone ever called him naive and double it that he’ll be wildly defensive and provide a justification for how he speaks to people online with whom he disagrees. Wait for it!
I have not gone through all comments but here is my opinion on this…WALL IT UP…what I mean is take out stalls and wall the toilets and urinals up…no one can peak through or have a hidden camera in a purse that they set down next to you…kinda like a portable toilet…most rational people on this subject just don’t want to give perverts or child predators any easier access…also this is not about hating on trans people…they need to pee too…why can’t all public places wall up their toilets?…money?perhaps…but what cost to keep all people safe…would love to hear from anyone on this…be even better if a target exec. would comment
Gretchen Kelly….is this sensible for everyone?
Anyone object to my opinion?….be on here for an hour and no response yet
No, it is not sensible. Literally nothing has changed. Nothing. Target’s public statement on their policy is basically them saying, “no, keep doing what you are doing, we support you.”
The problem is that people are only raising an issue with this BECAUSE of HB2 and other religious liberty laws that are designed to create fear and discrimination. Trans people have been using the bathroom they identify with forever, only now places like Target have to publicly defend them because old white conservatives are actively painting targets on their backs.
People use the bathroom to urinate and defecate. It has always been that way. If someone is being a perv or a pedophile in a bathroom, then it’s illegal, wrong, and should be punished accordingly. However, nothing about Target’s policy will make it any easier for pedophiles and rapists to do those things.
I understand you are trying to make a compromise here, but that’s like trying to build a wall along the border of two peaceful countries: you could do it, but why? It will only cause more tension and you’re paying a lot of money to fix a problem that statistically doesn’t exist.
So can a person PRETENDING to be a women not have a hidden camera in a purse?…Once again its not LEGAL trans people I am concerned with…there are many perverts that will use this…if you wall up all stalls then it doesn’t matter…stop thinking that people are concerned with law abiding citizens using the restroom, its the criminals that now have easier access…also has any perv ever tried snapping photos of people in changing rooms?…no different then a bathroom…and yes that has happened
Tim, I personally have no problem with that idea… I do think cost would be a huge issue. And the delay in response on my part is simply that there is no way I can physically answer all comments. But, I would imagine the cost would be a huge deterrent. I have no idea if there are building codes, etc that come into play.
I understand you are replying to all comments…thank you for taking the time for mine….I am just looking for the solution for the issue…EVERYONE has a right to privacy…this would take care of it…cost for corporations should not be a factor to keep all customers safe…you could probably get an executive from Target to respond to this idea as I cannot( I have tried).
I disagree. You can be outraged by sexual abuse, all of the statistics, the stories, etc and STILL not want men in the women’s public bathrooms. . .There is no way to regulate it. So we are going to change the entire nation’s bathroom policies or worse-put millions of dollars into changing bathrooms or adding new ones for the 00.3% of the population who mentally think they are in the wrong physical body? And there are children on the streets starving and homeless….tiss tiss…shame on America.
Agreed why is NC wasting time passing a dumb law instead of focussing on the homeless children in their state?
You mean the Charlotte law? I have no idea why they did it. Charlottes mayor was trying to make a name for herself. It was far reaching also. It mandated that all facilities would be open to not just trans, but those who identified and expressed as another gender. It wasn’t voted on by the city, only the council.
I agree with you that there are many more problems that are more important….lawyers have made this an issue….being a man I am uncomfortable with going in a mens locker room and seeing men “hanging out”…but me being uncomfortable seems to be OK with people…tolerance and fairness should be for all and go both ways…if I can’t force businesses to change for me then businesses shouldn’t change for anybody…its probably impossible to please everybody but I think my idea is the best I have heard…instead of everyone posting mean and hateful things, come up with a better solution
Just make a family bathroom in Target like all the malls have with one door and one toilet and any one and they’re Grandma can go in!!!
They all already have family bathrooms. Which makes all this outrage about protecting our kids even more ridiculous!! They offer an alternative
They all don’t have family restrooms. I know of two in two different states that only have men’s and women’s but no family restrooms.
They make stalls so that there it lots of “peeking room” to discourage people from doing drugs in the stalls. Walling everything defeats that.
Why would anyone come to a store to use the bathroom for drugs?…doesn’t seem very logical to be in a public place to do drugs where they could get caught easier…I don’t believe that stores have employees in place just to check the bathrooms for drug use.
Clearly you’ve never done drugs. “Logical” and drugs don’t even make sense in the same sentence.
In places where bathroom drug use is really a problem (mostly bars and maybe schools) there are stalls without doors. To my knowledge No one is making stalls so you can peek in them to check for drug use – especially not at target
What I meant is that drug users don’t specifically go to a public place to go into the bathroom and use their drugs…I am a corrections officer and yes I am around drug users all the time…they laughed at the thought that target would be the hang out spot to use
There is a large possibility that employees could be doing drugs, not only patrons.
I said weeks ago remove urinals in mens rooms and leave it at that. Do you notice that women take their small children, boy or girl into the ladies room with them. What do the men that have small daughters do? Can’t bring them in the mens room with all the urinals. We have gone nuts anyway. Supervise your children in public places. Too bad we can’t get that much response on more important topics.
To me it is NOT about transgender and the Target policy!! It’s the policy that is trying to be pushed through that anyone can go into any bathroom or locker or fitting room! The fact that you didn’t hear or see complaints or protest regarding the other examples doesn’t mean they weren’t there, but does mean that the media didn’t exploit it! Your info is coming from media not actual thought of people! I’m so tired of people suggesting that it is about the fear of transgender entering the bathrooms, THAT IS NOT AT ALL THE POINT!!! Your statistics don’t represent the future problem!
If you don’t think pedophiles and those on the sex offenders list will not take advantage of being able to go into locker rooms with showers and open changing rooms and bathrooms then you obviously don’t know statistics!!
STOP making it about people against or fearing transgender! They have been going into the Barton their choice forever!!! We should Use safety and sensibility as a compass!!!
There is something that I don’t understand about what you are trying to say. First, both men and women can be sexual predators, and second, both boys and girls can be victims of sexual predation, by either men or women. Are you suggesting that these things are in some way influence by these policies?
“The fact that you didn’t hear or see complaints or protest regarding the other examples doesn’t mean they weren’t there, but does mean that the media didn’t exploit it! Your info is coming from media not actual thought of people!”
You’re certainly welcome to prove that it has happened, or if it has happened that these policies cause it to happen in greater numbers.
Otherwise, it’s sensible to treat such an attitude as fear-mongering with no actual evidence to support it.
I will prove that it has happened, in 3,2,1… ALL of those things piss me off, and so does the insanity that institutes policy that MEN are in women’s bathrooms. Less that 0.3 of our population have the MENTAL DISORDER of Gender dysphoria. Your sex cannot be changed, it is a scientific impossibility. So who do you think is going to be in these bathrooms? Your dumbassary, is overwhelming.
A scientific impossibility? You mean, like the testosterone and estrogen shots that are given to transgender sex change patients? You mean, the scientific way to help you become closer to who you want to be? Please get off this forum you fucking psycho, no one here wants your negativity. We are all here to read this because it’s true. And you’re really fucking wrong. Like, painfully wrong. “ill prove my point in 3, 2, 1… I am super upset about (xyz).” Uh, okay? Cool. You. A singular voice. Did you start a petition? Did you voice your opinion more than once to people to try and enlighten people on the subject of rape? Or did you only come to the internet where you could be a keyboard warrior, defending your hypocritical bullshit? It doesn’t matter! If it rape was seen as big of a deal as this policy, you’d hear about it. If any of those situations were seen as big of an issue- YOU WOULD HAVE HEARD ABOUT IT. Why, you ask? BECAUSE IF PEOPLE TALK ABOUT AN IDEA BEING BAD, IT USUALLY GENERATES THIS KIND OF ATTENTION AND GETS ADDRESSED. But I’ll sit back and fucking wait for you to pull some more bullshit right out of your ass when saying “just because the media didn’t talk about it doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem people still want changed.” If people want change, they fucking make change. You don’t get to say you have more fear for women and children now because of the transgender policy that will enventually pass, when the fear of sexual assault in a public bathroom has been real for our entire lives as women. The fear has effected our daily lives enough to the point where we are programmed as children to go to the bathroom in packs, don’t fucking tell me I’m in more danger because transgender woman wants to piss in the same fucking bathroom as me. They aren’t MEN you ignorant and rude piece of shit- they’re women. They are transgender women. All they want to do is be able to pee and not get sexually assaulted by men in the men’s bathroom. You have a lot more in common with them than you’d think, not wanted to get raped by a man in the bathroom and all. But of course, please continue to spread your ignorance and then tell everyone else that they are stupid because your tiny little brain can’t wrap around the idea of equality. What a waste of human you are, how disgusting. Don’t try to change people’s minds here, most of us are free thinkers and have an IQ 10x greater than yours- your hateful opinion is not needed nor welcome here. Please do us all a favor and go the fuck away.
Wow, you like to hear yourself talk.
hateful much?
http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris-perry/being-transgender-no-longer-mental-disorder. FYI You are an ASS!
That link doesn’t exist.
Apparently the correct link doesn’t include the final ‘r’ in it – http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris-perry/being-transgender-no-longer-mental-disorde
And another loving Christian stopping by to scream at people and call them dumb asses. Does anyone see a pattern here? how charming.
1. Transgender persons have been using whatever gendered bathrooms they want for years and you probably never noticed. Still, there have been no cases of pedophiles and sex offenders taking advantage of people in these bathrooms. Nothing was stopping them before so why would officially allowing LBGT persons to use the bathroom now suddenly change things if they’re still technically the same?
2. This statement “If you don’t think pedophiles and those on the sex offenders list will not take advantage of being able to go into locker rooms with showers and open changing rooms and bathrooms then you obviously don’t know statistics!!” is problematic because I don’t see a connect between these offenders taking advantage and statistics. Statistics can be used to support claims but not without probable cause and it’s use to predict probability. Unless there are numbers and facts to support a reasonably predicted correlation and causation of offenders taking advantage of people in the bathroom and numbers of assault raising if the law were allow bathroom access to transgender persons (there is no evidence that personally I know of but if you do, please share as I am happy to take a look) then there is no link.
3. The article does not reference the media when talking about where have the moral defenders have been. It does reference facebook and twitter. These are forms of social media and are controlled by individuals with personal accounts. The individuals that are outraged about this bathroom matter in the name of morals or protectors of women and children were quiet before on other issues relating to women and children. The point is if anyone were to go back and look at past post of these people, one would not see them fighting for the justice, rights, and protection of the oppressed, of women and of children. They would instead see cat videos, post of how their day went, pictures of their meals, or even no posts at all. These are all examples of silence.
4. This is not claiming all persons speaking out against sharing bathrooms with LGBT have not been speaking out for women and children on other issues. The article is just saying it seems to be a common link between most of them and this article is tailored to those who have not. At the same time, even those who have raised their voices and are fighting for women and children on other issues can still benefit from reading this if their main concern is about safety. A major point of this article is there’s no need to worry about something that has no facts or numbers to support it.
5. From your comment, I understand your concern is about safety and not about being anti-transgender. I would love to see facts supporting your claim that a raise in bathroom assaults would occur in response to the law allowing transgender persons to use the bathroom correlating to their gender. I understand the possibility of offenders abusing the law but I wonder how probable it is that they will.
6. Because sex offenders are great law abiding citizens to begin with that they would not rape and assault others…
either way, crimes will be committed. It’s is a transgender rights issuse
Someone! I really wish I knew your name so I could thank you and give you a huge hug! Thank you! Thank you for so clearly explaining all of this! Wow. I should delete my entire blog post and just replace it with your comment. Thank you and *hugs* anyways.
Why would these criminals wait until now? Let’s create a solution for a problem that doesn’t even exst! smh
TG Women are being assaulted in men’s rooms.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/03/28/stonewall-inn-sex-assault/
OMG was this powerfully written…..
Thank you for taking the time to write it so well….. and ease Keppra saying it!!!!
I find this kind of offensive, honestly. “Chicken scratch petition?” Who says we aren’t screaming about the rest too? It doesn’t have to be one or the other. The reason this boycott is so important is because there are not as many allies for our transgendered friends.
Danielle if “Chicken scratched petition” is too harsh of a wording for you I’m sorry. Was I fired up? Yeah. This was an opinion piece and I get a little fiery once in a while. One million people are screaming about this. I’m not alone in saying I didn’t hear this kind of outcry over any of these other issues. Maybe you, individually, have been screaming about the other issues. If so, then why aren’t you asking the same question? “Hey guys, glad to see you are fighting for something you believe in, but here’s a whole list of relevant and related issues if you truly want to combat sexual predators.” THAT is my point. And also, that a lot of this fear is being fueled by false stories spread by the AFA. Let’s all fight against rape, sexual assault and the sickness that feeds it. I personally think the Target bathroom is the least effective place to start.
Well written article. I’m in agreement on most of this. These dangers the petitioners are speaking of have been there all along. Here’s the deal with this argument. If someone wanted to assault another in a public bathroom, they aren’t going to care what the sign on the door says. Someone who is sick enough to assault another human being, doesn’t care about a posted sign. That’s like saying “a no guns allowed” sign on a building will stop a shooter from bringing their gun in. New flash, they are criminals, whatever sign you post is going to be ignored. Never has it gone like this…”hey Bob, what are you doing?” “Oh nothing John, was gonna rob this place but they have a no guns sign, guess I’ll go home and re-hash my plan”…now as far as the examples in this post, the only thing I disagree with, is about the child playing in the park with a toy gun. The kid was waving a gun, which looks exactly like a real gun to the untrained eye..waving it at pedestrians. The police arrived, yelling to put his hands up and the kid reached for his waist band where the gun was. I agree, it’s a terrible situation, and the cop reacted too quickly. However, in his eyes, this man had a gun (because they didn’t know he was a kid..) I’ve heard all the arguments, yet they hold no value toward the truth. Ohio is an open carry state, but open carry means in a holster, visible. Not in a waistband. Once it is hidden it becomes concealed. Open carry also does not mean brandishing the weapon randomly. Regardless I’m sure we will disagree. But the main thing I’m not ok with, is this mother now has millions of dollars in settlement money, because she was not a good parent. She was never home, and was a drug addict. Her child was playing with a real ass looking toy gun in a public place. That’s bad parenting, but she got paid millions in tax payers money. Regardless, I thoroughly enjoyed and agreed with the rest of your post.
Agreed!
“I didn’t hear a whole lot of yelling and hand wringing for these children who were mowed down by white male outrage and misguided fear.”
That’s where I stopped reading. Shame on you for perpetuating the race issues we have in the U.S. Please elaborate on this, because I certainly must have missed that story. Ignorance and a VERY sorry excuse of a journalist. Have a nice day.
I agree. She didn’t hear our outrage, likely because she was taking selfies, or she had her fingers in her ears. 1. People have been outraged about all that stuff for a LOOONG time, and crimes like those are perpetuated by idiots like this who shame others into feeling bad about protecting their children in the name of “a ‘deep’ open letter” – I printed this out to use it as toilet paper. 2. Why tell people who care about their children they are “disingenuous” for believing this policy is INSANE for the above (inaccurate) statement. Its like saying to a morbidly obese person in the gym, “I find your workout regime disingenuous”
IF they have been silent (which they haven’t – crawl out of your hippy cave and you can see), Thank God they are saying something now.
Raquel, first, I am not a journalist. I’m a writer. A blogger. Even my work on larger sites have been opinion pieces or personal stories. BUT, the “white male outrage and misguided fear” was referring to the black boys shot and killed. While listening to a car radio, taking out the trash, or the young black girls who are slammed to the ground by a police officer at a pool party or by a school resource officer. Studies have shown that young black children are viewed largely by white people as older than their peers. And they are more likely to be considered “dangerous” even while doing innocent or non threatening activities. That’s what I was referring to. I didn’t make it up. I have written about the subversive racism in our society that puts black youth at risk. It’s one of those subjects that I have been ringing the alarm bells for and there isn’t the level of outrage I’m seeing over the Target bathrooms. That was the whole point.
Gretchen,
More white people are killed by police each year than black people. Where is your outrage, feminist?
More men are homeless, commit suicide, and are 20X more likely to die in workplace deaths. Where is your outrage, feminist?
You say 3 women are killed each hour from their intimate partners, but you don’t elaborate how many of those partners are lesbians. Where is your outrage, feminist?
You’re a hypocrite. You beat your equality drum when it serves you, yet sit on your own privileges when it doesn’t. You are the reason men are backing away from women. You are the reason a peaceful trot to death as a single makes more sense than a full on sprint with such a harpy at your side. You echo all these easily defeated NOW-supported stats, yet cry misogyny when someone points out the real stats to you.
Pay attention, ladies. When conservatives say they want sex-segregated bathrooms, it’s because you it’s way easier to prevent rapes and sexual assaults when you physically keep penises away from vaginas. As someone mentioned earlier, LGBT people have been using restrooms since forever without an issue. Stop this liberal march off the social cliff.
“Anonymous” I’m going to venture a guess and say… you don’t like feminists? Maybe stay away from blogs written by women if feminists and women’s thoughts and ideas on subjects threaten you so much. I’m guessing by your comment here that my article has been posted on Reddit. Cool. Cheers.
No…it’s because most of the white kids don’t “challenge” the police or administration when asked to comply. If they do “challenge” it isn’t with their chest pumped out in their face.
I think your facts are wrong many assalts happen in bathrooms and just like you said they don’t get much time either make them closed restrooms or leave it like it is I don’t want men in the restroom with me or my girls if they get a sex change ok but if they have male parts NO
“I think your facts are wrong”
She posted actual links to facts. All you posted was “I think you’re wrong”.
That isn’t going to cut it. Just because you WANT facts to be different doesn’t mean they are.
Powerful and well-written. Thank you for sharing.
I have a problem with the source you cite for “the only sexual assault” that was shown to be made by a man masquerading as a Transgender ed woman. Look at the citations within that source, and look up the name Christopher Hambrook in relation to a Canadian sexual assault. There are no major news organizations with articles about it. It’s orginally reported by the Toronto Sun. LifeSite News, another “source,” is a Christian values website. They openly condemn gays. Not a veritable source if you ask me.
In other words there are no sexual assaults committed by a man pretending to be a Transgender woman.
Thank you so much for this.
So, a policy is going to keep predators out of the women’s room? Do you think these laws keep them out? Would it keep you out if you heard cries of help from the opposite sexed bathroom? If your young son, went into the men’s room and go into trouble, would the sign on the door keep you out? In the end, it’s a sign. I think you all need to think about what you think about MEN… because you don’t seem to be concerned about sexy trans-gendered Suzy using the men’s room. And trust me, she’s in more danger of assault than your wives and daughters sharing a bathroom with her. Teach your sons to be decent people, Teach them to be people you don’t fear sharing a bathroom in and we can all rest easier, regardless of which labeled room you pee in.
You are a moron. Thank you for adding to the confusion on the internet.
hahaha….like Anonymous…You can’t even take the time to pick a fake name.
Where was I? Right here, condemning all sexual abuse, assault, murder, and evil, just like what I’m doing now. Maybe you couldn’t hear because you had your fingers in your ears saying, “lalalalalalala!”
The bottom line is this he or she is still a man/woman the changes they made is on them no matter what you are still a man or woman if you change from man to woman you are still a man no matter what you say or think you are same with a woman you chang from woman to man you are still a woman . You chose to do this . So why should I as a woman have to share a restroom with a man? Why should men have to share a restroom a woman? This not hate or fear this is just fact.
You are so angry, it’s scary, it leaps off the page. This is why so many people do whatever can to avoid Christians, what you say about a loving God vs the way you speak to others online – without remorse or apology – is creepy in its cognitive dissonance. People like you give yourselves such license when you’re fueled with “righteous anger” and it’s so counter intuitive to the message about Christ Christians want us to believe. It’s almost as though you’re just using your faith to stay angry and not feel badly about the harm you do in that anger – you all give yourselves a pass because you’re “defending God”, screaming at people who you say you’re trying to save. It’s the strangest thing I’ve ever seen, no wonder so many people are leaving evangelical Christianity. Whoa.
oh please, give me a break. “This is why so many people do whatever (they) can to avoid Christians?” I don’t know many people who actively and knowingly want to avoid people because of their religious faith, but then again, I don’t hang around with bigots. Perhaps you do.
This nonsense of using someone’s moral beliefs against them when it suits you is disgusting. This entire issue has been blown out of proportion by the likes of YOU – the so-called “inclusive progressives” who after spending a century lobbing for the rights of women, have now fallen on your sword to support a demographic that is what- less than 1% of the entire population – if that? Your case for inclusiveness just happens to have a very real consequence – namely that young girls can now feel less safe in restrooms and locker rooms. If you think pedophiles (because THIS is who we “Christian conservatives” are actually concerned about), aren’t going to exploit and haven’t already exploited these lenient bathroom policies, think again. You guys are so “pro-woman,” except when it comes to protecting them from sexual predators. Any parent of a young child (I myself am one), will explain to you the real fear of allowing their 10 year old into a restroom knowing that there could be a person who used these laws to their advantage to trick store/restaurant management into letting them waltz into the wrong bathroom. I hope in your quest for social justice, you’ll rest easy knowing some 10 year old girl got raped. And yes, this “writer” might have a point about standing guard for her kids while they potty, but that’s not always reality. At some point, they’ll be out somewhere with their friend’s family who might not have such vigilance on the forefront of their minds.
I have absolutely nothing against transgendered people, but frankly policies such as this put OTHERS at risk. Not by transgendered people, but by sexual predators who are going to exploit this law.
What does it even mean, “use laws to their advantage?” Is it really your position that people willing to break child rape laws would be unwilling to cross the line into breaking bathroom gender laws?
“I don’t know many people who actively and knowingly want to avoid people because of their religious faith, but then again, I don’t hang around with bigots.”
Well of course you don’t dear, if you’re this much of a dick online as you are off? If you’re this aggressive and arrogant in the name of Christ? Of course they’s never dream of telling you what they actually think and they are already avoiding you. Just like I am. Have a nice life.
Why should we have to share the same air as a closed minded person like yourself?
Bravo! Nicely and factually stated! Predators are all around us and to think they are waiting for us to legislate bathroom use is ludicrous.
Yes. all of this. yes. It’s not about bathrooms, it’s about fear. What exactly are they REALLY afraid of? You want to seriously talk about this, talk about our rape culture. Talk about how a transgender woman having to go to a men’s bathroom,because she was identified as male on her birth certificate, is more likely to be harassed and/or assaulted than the women and children in the girls bathroom if she were to go to the bathroom that she identifies herself with. Or how this opens up more opportunity to have stereotypes reinforced, to force people to conform into what is considered “normal”. This is about SO MUCH MORE than bathrooms. What’s really sad is that people are afraid to call it for what it is.
I think this was beautifully written. Thank you for writing this.
“What exactly are they afraid of?” It’s quite simple – sexual predators using this policy to their advantage. As parents, forgive us if we’re not comfortable sending our kids into a restroom that allows members of the opposite sex (no, I’m not referring to transgendered people) to walk into any bathroom they like.
Then don’t send them to soccer practice, church camp, school, family reunions….these are all more prevalent locales for child abuse/molestation than public restrooms of any stripe.
Except you have been for years. Years! And there’s not been a single documented case of someone transgendered hurting your kids. Your pastors abusing kids? yeah, tons of examples there but no one transgendered in a bathroom. Nice try.
Quite the interesting article you have here. Well written, if a bit…hmm.. fiery. It’s an opinion article so I reckon that’s okay. You aren’t trying to be the Head investigative journalist of whatever local newspaper you subscribe to.
I agree that it seems we only hear about the outrage on seemingly silly things, and things get hush hush about the big stuff. That doesn’t mean the battles aren’t being fought, just seems like the coverage is skewed.
Then there is the fear. There is a lot of misunderstanding and simple ignorance floating about over the topic of trans-sexuality. I myself knew very little until I befriended some folks affected by it. So I learned. I asked questions.
I am all too familiar with folks first reaction to what they do not understand being fear and mistrust. It’s a deeply ingrained survival thing. But I am starting to digress.
You are right that the larger issue is the rape culture in the world. It’s woven right into our history, the way we’ve been doing things for a long time. Oh sure improvements have been made, we have indeed gotten better, but nearly enough. We have come a fair way…but we have a long way to go still.
I like to believe that most parents care for the safety of their children, and people just want to protect the ones they love, and they do the best they can with the information they have. That isn’t a bad thing. Where it break down is when you stop being concerned with the truth of a subject, and when you let pure fear win. It’s tough, I know. when it comes to the safety of a loved one, you can be driven mad. I understand. We have to learn to overcome our baser natures.
I apologize for getting preachy on a comment section, it’s a professional habit. hehehehe.
Tl;DR of my rant here, Good intentions do not justify hatred. Fear is powerful, and is overcome through understanding. Do not let Facebook and Twitter replace your own reason. The LGBT community is not here to hurt you, they just want to pee.
Finally, Rape and sexual assault are serious issues, Gun violence is a serious issue, Hunger and poverty are serious issues, We have enough serious issues on our plates that we should be working on. I beg of you all to worry about those, and not who gets to pee where.
I apologize again for the length. Hard to keep a preacher from preaching. lol. Well done on your article!
Well said, thank you.
Thank you for opening the minds of people who are willing to read and learn. Your words are amazing.
I support target 200% on protecting transgender from discrimination and hate, obviously ppl have take this policy to be hateful human beings! the concern over pedophiles changes nothing compare to them already using the men’s room with little boys. The family’s associate instead of offerings solution to an existing problem decides to boycott it, WAY TO GO COUNCIL!! Obviously they didn’t care about LGBT families either.. In fact the council has a history of not even caring at all. Reading from everyone post and comments, a Majority of Americans don’t even know or understand transgenders and mostly view them a cross dresser freak. And may I remind everyone that a rapist and pedophiles don’t need bathroom excused to commit their crimes, in fact there most likely to corner their victims to a private bathroom. #istandwithtarget #targetboycott #change #target
Well done!
Stop with the moral outrage against the common public on this. Blame the media, they choose what to give time to and what not to. And by the way, men have abused these policies(and women btw) so there is a common sense-based concern on these matters. The reality is that our society is trying so hard to be politically correct and “inclusive” that it abandons common sense and common safety to promote agendas. And it’s going to take another catastrophe before anyone wakes up about it.
I generally agree with you – however, I think we should take this thinking a bit further. About 16,400 children die every day, mostly of preventable, poverty-related issues. I think that people who care about women and children should be compassionate and active wrt the issues with extreme poverty in developing nations, as those issues are an enormous source of suffering for women and children. (I don’t mean this as a shallow deflection: I’ve pledged to donate a lot of money to charities alleviating issues associated with global poverty.)
THANK YOU!
Was a great editorial until you made it about race, ruined it.
You all need to get your dumb ass heads out of your stinky asses! Before this became a news item for you nascar idiots, people pissed a shitted just fine. the incidents of rape, molestation, pedophilia were not used by the LGBT community you morons – it was the average trailer trash shitfuck who identifies and male or female from birth. Maybe – if you take your fucking fears and stick them up your asses, pull them out and smell them, you’ll realize what a bunch of stupid, ignorant, media biters you really are. SHAME ON YOU!
You have so many valid points but I draw the line on your comment about the police shooting of the kid with the toy gun. If you want to start placing blame, I suggest you start with his parents. Not say it wasn’t a tragedy but those types of comments only fuel the fire of hatred towards our men and women in blue. That was way out of line!!!
I agree with Anne about what it is that we should be focusing our time, energy and resources on – fear, hatred, abusive treatment and hunger. I believe there is at least one religion that praises men for the number of women and progeny they can claim as their own, yet provide few resources to support and/or raise. Where someone decides they need to urinate or defecate may not really be about comfort or political beliefs – just, simply, biological necessities that will express themselves one way or the other given enough time and few, if any, other choices. We can argue about it as long as we want to. We’re all still going to need to use a public bathroom at some point in our lives. Of course, we could always just decide to starve and dehydrate ourselves to the extent of medical self-abuse and see where that gets us. I’m also pretty certain adult-sized diapers don’t require a medical need to purchase and/or use. Go for it.
This is just crazy I think.. No one was worried about this 6 months ago. But I have to say that all of my transgender friends used to do alot of shopping at Target but after this it will never happen again. My thing is before this came abut I myself have 32 nieces and nephews and if anyone of them went into the bathroom and lets go with a niece of mine and she went in and there was transgender man standing there that was born a female. I feel it would scare my niece. Look at the clear picture here. Everyone wants to point fingers at what is right or wrong but we should just mine our own business and our families and not worry about everyone else business. I was born a male and live life as a male but I been told I am more of a Fem than Masc. But I do not start trouble of it nor do I judge people. This world we live in today is destroying it more and more everyday… My prayers goes out to each and everyone of you that has hate in your heart over something so stupid…
Yes! Yes! Yes!
Great article. Loved how you brought in White male privilege, always with the white male privilege
Maybe rather than worrying about what genitalia a person walking into a bathroom has, we can consider where the source of that fear comes from. Is our society so dangerous and corrupt that we can’t be trusted to choose a bathroom? Personally I’m considerably more scared of being raped by a man who identifies as a man, not a transgender person.
I would be scared if I were being raped at all?
Right, but do you feel that the transgender population poses more of a threat than straight men?
Of course not
Wonderfully written. Will definitely be sharing because this speaks volumes to me.
I have a HUGE issue with this … To many sexual predators out there.. To the dumbasses that passed this law you are sick in the head … You have no sense what so ever and have no concern about children .. Nothing but a cold harded bastard.. Target lost all my business my families and majoritiy of my communities
Xtx,
I was a victim of date rape in my first year at Villanova. I lost my virginity. No means no, but to him, he thought he had the RIGHT because I was in his dorm room. SOBER. I know the shame. Watch Lady Gaga’s video about this exact problem. Thank you for saying what truly needed to be said. Namaste.
It’s funny what gets the most attention-I’m thinking of the red Starbucks cups here… I think people jump on the bandwagon of “safe” stuff to protest. If they feel like the majority will be on their side. Somehow we still have yet to feel on the same side on the issue of rape. Somehow people are still blaming the victim or justifying the attacker. Somehow victims are still terrified to report their cases because they run the risk of being ridiculed or harassed further. So yea, I can see how people are jumping on this bandwagon-“Let’s protect our children” who could argue with that? Except our children aren’t in danger of using a restroom at the same time as a trans-gender person. They are in danger of learning hate and fear to that which is different.
Excellently said👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
So well written! I’m not as eloquent but I’ll try. I wondered if all this parents and non parents outraged, walked to public restrooms before like it was so secure and clean. At least that’s not what my mom taught me. Like you said, danger is everywhere. We always have to be alert. It also makes me wonder, that we probably been sharing the restrooms with folks with different genitalia for years! but its only a big deal now because it was brought to our attention. Maybe some don’t realize that both men and women can commit crimes?
I hope one day we can be respectful of each other, no matter how we look in the outside, who we love, religion etc. Recognize the body is the vessel, inside is a soul that just wants to live, love and fulfill its self.
Beautifully stated, thank you!
I stand with you. Transgender people are people. They identify with who they are inside, and if they have the funds they change their bodies to the extent they can. Bathrooms are equipped with stalls, and more modern facilities are equipped with more privacy. Try Potomac Mills Mall, where there are facilities for families, Wegman’s Foods, who provide privacy in the women’s and men’s facilities. Women close the doors when they enter the stalls. Those who want more privacy put their jackets or sweater so they hang over the door to keep peeps from peeping. WE SHUT THE DOOR.
We wash our hands and dry them with our clothes on. We fix our makeup. We look in the mirror to see that we are what we look like. That’s what we do. That’s what transgender people do. People who believe in a sexuality, say female, as that is where the worry comes from, they don’t want to be harassed or given cause for embarrassment or be subject to discrimination. They’re newly confident in who they are as society puts more into protecting them. The laws protect them from rape, harassment just as they do us.
These people aren’t the pedophiles we hear about. Now, I know pedophiles. I’ve know them on a personal basis. I went to school and they were four of the teachers that were teaching while I was there. They groomed my brother for being approved for abuse sexually and then passed him around in the pass around pack, without my parents being informed or given reasons to panic. They were teachers and a director of the Children’s theater of Minnesota. Yes, John Donahue, Terrill Hansen, I remember you two best and I remember 19720-1975. I don’t forgive you. I don’t have to. We trusted these men to teach. Both served less than 18 months for sexually abusing more than a dozen talented boys who could have grown up to be themselves and not victims. I know that my brother was gay before the abuse, but it wasn’t apparent.It should have been his right to learn about his sexuality on his own. It’s even normal for boys and girls to develop crushes on people of both sexes. But the adult needs to realize that these pedophiles aren’t the people that are asking for a place to relieve themselves. No, pedophiles walk in the norm of society as politicians, aid society founders like Jared, teachers, preachers, care givers. Often, the blame goes on the victim. “THEY WERE ASKING FOR IT!” Such a primitive thought. Such an uncultured thought. Such bull shit. Does anyone ever get accused falsely? Yup. One of the reasons for not having the death penalty is that we didn’t have the technology to be sure 150% of the convictions. We are developing that technology even as I type. These abusers weren’t transsexuals. Abusers and Identifiers are two different things. They are nothing alike.
Sexism and sexual abuse in the workplace does take place. People with grandiose egos who think that they can do whatever they want have always abused others. Violent attacks rarely take place in the woman’s bathroom. RARELY. Even less than rarely. Can you imagine having to use the men’s bathroom if you were transexual? If you aren’t male? Putting on makeup? Really? You think that the harassment doesn’t happen? Or that the people who already have to deal with being treated as outsiders don’t get threatened?
What about the victims of our supreme court justice and the woman who bravely stood up to him? Clinton’s victims? They think their unwanted attentions are their right and due. We hear about the big names who scoff at the law and claim to be supporter’s of family rights.
We need to protect victims and their families. We need to stop being onlookers when things happen. We need to realize that it is a very small percentage of people involved in crime in the first place.
A bathroom is a bathroom. We take little boys in the women’s to protect them. We shut the doors. Any deviant behavior would elicit a round of screaming and purses swinging until security arrived. Do you really think transgender people would turn their backs? They are either man or woman and associate as such. We heard in the news yesterday that a normal woman was accused of being a transexual and arrested for using the bathroom. Oops. That’s a bad thing. False accusations, bad. Always.
Why was the Harvard team so accepting of a transexual on their swimming team? A male transexual? remember teasing women that they seemed more male than female in High School? I saw it happen. I stood up for them. They were people and more than a label. But the harassment continues to this day. They’ve suffered at stupidities hands. Time for us to grow up, and not be PETRIFIED all the time. Time to protect our family and friends from bullies. Time to let transexuals and those who think differently than us to be protected. Maybe we should focus on those who do abuse others and pay little for it.
Oh and the peeps I refer to are three and four year olds who are curious and just want to say Hi. Their mothers deal with them, and quickly. They aren’t looking for anything or wouldn’t even recognize parts if they saw them. Which they wouldn’t. Women sit. So yeah, let’s just grow up.
I like how you delete every dissenting comment. That truly is some deafening silence.
I have not deleted any comments. I generally allow people to say whatever they like as long as it’s not abusive to any other commenters. With 800 comments there’s no way I can read, let alone delete dissenting comments. (In case you haven’t noticed, there are dissenting comments here. As in not deleted.)
That’s a lie. I’ve been following this conversation several times a day and I’m familiar with almost all of the comments. Nothing’s been deleted, including the abuse and misogyny being heaped upon this lovely person.
Where have I been?? I have been here, right here, all the time. Watching the morality of our country go to hell in a hand basket. Where have I been? On a therapists couch talking about how I was molested as a young boy by a grown man…. Where have I been? Raising money for our local Women’s shelter for abused women and men… Where have I been? Watching my two sons closely as they grew up, never leaving them in a public bathroom by themselves until they were able to fend for themselves…. Where have I been ??? Working with sex offenders, making sure that there were external controls in place so that they could not, would not offend EVER again on my watch. Where have I been? Sitting in meetings with professionals who say that for most sex offenders they will NEVER be the same, that they will offend again given the chance…..Where have I been? Who are you to ask that question of anyone…. I am a Christian, with moral values, who loves PEOPLE all PEOPLE, but one who knows that there are those who can and will take advantage of this and we will have more victims, who will sit on a therapists couch, trying to make sense of what happened to them. There is never a time when a man needs to use the woman’s bathroom or a woman use a man’s bathroom in public…. my hard earned dollars are not going to be used by a huge Corporate store to make decisions that I feel are wrong… don’t judge me because I have moral values, I have a bit more experience than the average person, both personally and professionally…. this is a really bad decision, and am not going to support it with my money. If they want a bathroom that the transgendered can use then let Corporate stores build an extra bathroom for them to use, but do not subject me or my children, grandchildren to this stupidity… Target will not get my money again…. A survivor, who refuses to be part of causing more victims…. Curtis
I wasn’t crazy about this article as it went on and on….Curtis I wanted to tell you something – things are not always at face value. I went to a family wedding years ago and there was a little girl there that was the flower girl. I was told by the bride that the little girl was a hermaphrodite. What that means is she had been born with both female and male genitalia. The parents had chosen not to perform any surgeries until she was older. She was behaving as if she was a girl and liked to play with dolls and liked to wear dresses so……Anyway, my point is that I learned a lot from this experience. God made the little girl this way. I’m not boycotting Target for something so foolish. I think of this little girl through no fault of her own that will someday have to make a choice to have surgery….You don’t know and it is not safe to ASSUME what is under someones clothes. You don’t know. In my mind nothing has changed – a man can walk into the women’s bathroom now and you still have to watch your children like a hawk. Law or no law. So it is up to the parents to make sure we are always watching and protecting. The law doesn’t change a thing. My two cents.
I agree completely. I was also molested as a 3 year old child and once again at 5 years old. I’ve been in counseling since i was 17. I don’t allow my daughter to be alone anywhere that there may be a possibility she could be a victim. I shouldn’t have to add another thing to my list that makes me hover over my child. What happen to the days you could let your kids run free in the streets til the lights came on? I agree make there own bathroom but a man, dressed like a woman or not should never be aloud to go into a restroom with children. i had took care of my two toddler nephews for a little while. I never allowed them in the men’s restroom because I couldn’t see them or protect them. so they went with me, all 3 of us crammed in the handicap bathroom stale. So yeah I’ve been here watching all the issues in this immoral world come to life. Target will not get my money. And I buy all my Christmas gifts there and my kids birthday presents there because I have a target card. well now that card can rot.
Most of your “where were you” examples are acts of crime for which there should have been legal discourse if not already (it’s unfortunate if there weren’t any convictions) but these certainly were not a result of any policy(ies). What I object to is the vagueness of the policy regarding the bathroom use for Trans people. For years the Trans folks have used the bathroom meant for the gender they look like. Now if I look like a man but just “feel like a woman” I shouldn’t be allowed to go to a woman’s bathroom. And yes I can visualize weirdos who will be emboldened to enter women’s bathroom with the help of this policy. They may not commit a crime but I don’t want the women folks of my house being looked at while they are doing their business. This policy is wrong and target was wrong to implement this policy hence the boycott.
THANK YOU. This is an amazing, articulate article.
Amazing piece, Gretchen xxx! Rebecca
YES! Thank you for this post, it is brilliant.
As a man I can agree with what you have written 150%. Well put. Keep up the good work. I have friends and family who have many varied sexual orientations. So whats the big deal. They are people who have feelings. The have laughed, cried, some died, they care about their families, friends and work hard. I was raised to accept a person for who they were. Not by the color of their skin or social status in life.
This is a FANTASTIC article.
1) Criminals don’t follow the law. A rapist won’t go “oh crap, they passed that bathroom law. Foiled again.” The penalty for rape will still remain the same. Oh, a rapist will use this loophole to dress up like a woman, go into an establishment and hunt someone? Statistically speaking, that wouldn’t be accurate (as this article discusses).
2) There’s a massive issue with turning “discomfort” into crime. Say it “I feel uncomfortable being next to a transexual because I don’t have experience there.. I’ve been told things about them.” That’s honesty and from there we can deal with it. But this amounts to bulling out of being naive.
I can’t think of anything more courageous (other than putting your life on the line for a cause) then transforming oneself from the person they were on the outside to the person they are on the inside. I feel terrible for the crap thrust on them from mostly people that keep telling the government to get out of their own lives but want to condemn these folks.
Just because one does not support the LGBT community does not make them supporters of rapists and violence against women. The two are independent and every woman is entitled to a opinion. If it makes her feel unsafe in a restroom, that is her discernment and she should not be shamed for “hate”. I agree about awareness of women’s issues, but this is also an issue for many women, which are entitled to their opinion. I feel this article also shames women into silence!
You should be ashamed of hate if you don’t understand it. It’s not OK to hate just because it makes you uncomfortable. Hate rapists, Nazis, murderers, terrorists. But try to grow as a human by understanding that which you don’t. If you understand it and you still don’t like it, hate away.
This is not an issue of hate. This is an issue of privacy, safety and protecting innocence. These should still hold some type of value. I do not agree that feelings of acceptance trump all else.
i agree 200% with everything you’ve written in this article!
YOU are literally now endorsing and sanctioning the legalization of and for perverts to be Out of the closet and do what they do…..view young girls and ladies doing their business privately, as opposed to keeping them separate and out of such private areas with your thesis, which is poorly if at all thought out and absurd. Shame on you. I suspect many conservative types will now ID as transgender, enter womens bathrooms and then urinate ALL Over the seat, and leave it up for women to deal with. YOU asked for it. Retard
You do know women’s restrooms have stalls right? We don’t sit around in a circle with no cover while taking a dump. So NO they are NOT spying on us while we do our private business. So get over it and quit using us to cover your own hate.
And what about those locations removing several women’s stalls to put in urinals ? I don’t even want to go in then, let alone my younger grandchildren.
OMG. Get your facts straight. Target is NOT putting urinals in womens restrooms. Please, inform me. Show me ONE SINGLE instance of that happening. You people are stupid. Get off facebook and do some research before you go spouting your ridiculousness. Your kind of stupidity is what is scaring everyone. Not a Target policy that basically everyone else follows and just doesnt have the balls to say out loud. Employees have never checked my genitals before I went into a restroom. They are not the genital police and never have been. And another thing, Target policy states that men have to go into the mens room and women go into the womens room. Its ONLY the transgender people it is mentioning. It was meant to be a statement of acceptance of the LGTB community. Not acceptance of criminals. Quit being a fear monger.
Nonsense. It has nothing to do with stalls. It has to do with mental sickness and allowing men to use womens toilets in front of girls, women and elderly ladies. It is sickness, that never would’ve been tolerated by our founders or in any nation of real men. Try that in Russia or Eastern Europe and youd be out on your head as you should be here.
Actually many restrooms are unisex in Europe
Single restrooms, yes. There are not group restrooms with both genders.
i have a business that has a rest room for women only gender…if you are a man go fucking piss behind 7-11 or AM PM….SIGN ALSO SAYS TRANS GENDER WELCOME…..
Yes there are group restrooms with both genders in Europe, individual stalls, shared sink. No problem at all.
Boom!
He said Eastern Europe and Russia – not mainland Europe Hun. Mainland Europe is backrupt, more liberal that it can physically handle, and shockingly less acceptant of the transgender culture than many other first world countries.
Have you read the news? Their economy is a lot better than ours, dear.
You’re right. I lived in Europe for a year and in Greece I found public restrooms where the men’s urinals were on the outside of the building (in the public) and the inside was stalls open to anyone. Just close the door behind you.
I just returned from London and Paris. Not only did I have to pay to use the group restroom, there were male cleaning people in there. So, no, European women’s rooms are not ‘male free’.
Thank you. for fucks sake. people need to get over this stupid ass shit. How blindingly stupid do you have to be to make anyone using any bathroom anywhere THE thing you’re up in arms about. ffs
Also? Using Russia as a place to try and be like? Right now? With the political situation they’re suffering from? Holy dumbfuck, Batman.
So how would u know if it was a woman or a man. Shit half of these transgender women look better than a natural born.
I hope my daughter never meets someone like you in her lifetime.
I feel sorry for you.
I feel sorry for this country. Our enemies laugh at us. Putin laughs at us. You mentally deficient metrosexual and overly feminine types can go back to feeding your cats wondering what in the hell happened to this once great country. In a word: J EWs
A bigot and a bigot. Wow.
Get a life.
It’s actually really rare for someone to openly admit they are a nazi. So I respect bharford’s candor. bharford, I’d politely suggest you look into making a new home in one of the totalitarian countries (with “real men”) you mentioned. America is obviously not a good fit! Sorry!
Feel sorry for yourself for being alright with a person with a mental disorder being labeled as a perfectly normal character trait in society. C
To bharford, If there were anything in your comment that might have been justified, (which there was not) your last word just proved the ignorance you in-habit. We can only feel pity for such human beings as yourself. I will pray for you. God forgives the ignorant.
You mention the word ignorant but you are so tainted with Kosher ‘tolerance’ which is literally approving and sanctioning the unthinkable, mental sickness and degeneracy, and facilitating to rationalize the irrational. There are only 2 genders: Male and Female. Bathrooms for those with
1. Penis
2. Vagina
There is no inbetween or compromise.
Until 1973 and for thousands of years, homosexuality was a punishable crime and deemed mental illness. Suddenly with J EWs controlling the judiciary, they sanctioned the harvesting and killing of the unborn to sell baby parts of Lamborghinis, and allowed for Gay marriage to become legal. Now 75,000 children are subjected to the worst kind of abuses from gay couples, their sick baby sitters and house sitters. You stand for nothing, youll fall for anything.
Pedophiles should be quickly tried, then either castrated or deported to an island if not given capital punishment.
Mental sickos that don’t know what gender they are, should be in mental facilities…
You are indeed ignorant if you are claiming that there are only two genders.
There are people born who are both male and female. It’s called hermaphroditism or intersex. Look it up.
The world is not black and white. There are a lot of gray areas.
Hermaphrodites are a rare occasion. Transgenders are populous to the thousands. They are not any exception, but a mentally ill group of people who actually think they were born into the wrong body. Do not confuse the two, or dare to compare the two.
Homosexual now equals pedophile??? News to me.
The idea of homosexuals being pedophiles is an undocumented myth. There is more evidence even within the past week that supports that heterosexual white males in authority positions are most likely to commit pedophilia. I’m more afraid of sending my sons into a men’s restroom than a women’s. As for the mental sickness of homosexuals and LGBTQ, there’s no research that proves one way or the other. However, there is research that shows people with extreme hatred toward a specific group of people (like jews or homosexuals for example) usually suffer from a mental disorder. I’d recommend speaking with someone about your hatred instead of venting on message boards. It’s not healthy.
EVERY same sex Pedophile is a homosexual. Every single one…The rest of your post is trash and rationalizing the irrational. F*ck you and your new world order
Where would we be without J EWs? Who would’ve Killed Christ? Birthed Communism, Usury, Feminism, Gay marriage, Transgender freaks, Abortion, Media Degeneracy, Porn or running a Concentration Camp in Gaza
You do realize Jesus was a Jew and it is through the Jews that God promised salvation as His chosen people. And the Bible was written by Jews. So unless you’re an Atheist you kinda need to take a step back. As for the rest of it, there is no credible historical facts for anything you’ve said.
Jesus was Not a j ew. That word didn’t exist until the 18th century second edition King James bible. He was an Israelite, a Judahite. Those living in Israel today are Khazars, 8th century converts, former phalluc worshippers with No tie to the Holy Land. Does Woody Allen look Semitic or Arabic to you? Nice try Moran
Anyone reading this will see that if you can’t spell the word “moron” right I’m not the less intelligent here. I enjoy the debate, but am willing to walk away at this point since I don’t believe either of us will gain anything from it. I wish you the best and hope that you find peace and joy in your life, that you live with grace and love towards others as Jesus did, and that you find acceptance with whatever group you identify with.
I spelled Moran intentionally.
You’ve not spent much time doing any introspection of your own stupidity.
JESUS WAS NOT A Jew
by Jason Collett
Many denominational Christians and even church leaders are under the mistaken belief that Jesus was a Jew. But nothing could be further from the truth.
Judea and Galilee were two separate states and political entities, as illustrated on the map of Palestine in the time of our Saviour in your Bible. Jesus Himself was not a Jew (Judean) or resident of Judea, He was a Galilean or resident of Galilee (Matthew 26:69; John 7:41), and a Judahite or descendent of the Tribe of Judah. The Judeans of prominence were not of the Tribe of Judah, but of Edomites. Pilate was being ironic when he wrote the sign “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Judeans” for the Cross (John 19:19). That is, “the Galilean who was King of the Judeans,” as in “Queen Victoria of England, Empress of India.” Jesus grew up in Nazareth in Galilee. His disciples were fishermen from the Sea of Galilee. And although He visited Jerusalem, he spent most of His life in his home country of Galilee. John 7:1, “After this Jesus stayed in Galilee; for He could not walk in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him.” His followers were constrained “for fear of the Jews” (John 7:13, 19:38, 20:19).
Why was this?
Psalm 83:3 says God’s elect are “hidden” or protected ones, and that they are under attack from a coalition of evil groups led by Edom. Who was Edom?
Esau, the brother of the patriarch Jacob, became the ancestor of the people called Edom, or Idumea. The Antiquities of the Jews by Flavius Josephus, XIII ix 1; XV vii 9 instructs us: John Hyrcanus forcibly assimilated the Edomites as a national group and they became “Jews” in about 120BC. The Jewish historian Josephus, who lived just after the time of Christ, wrote, “They [Edom] were hereafter no other than Jews’. The Jewish scholar Cecil Roth in his Concise Jewish Encyclopedia (1980) says on page 154, “John Hyrcanus forcibly converted [Edom] to Judaism. From then on they were part of the Jewish people. In the Talmud the name of Edom was applied to Christian Rome, and was then used for Christianity in general”.
Terrible judgements against Edom are made in most of the prophecies of the Old Testament. For instance, Isaiah 34, 63, Jeremiah 49, and the entire book of Obadiah.
Isaiah 63:1-6, “Who is this coming from Edom . . . in garments stained with crimson? It is I [the Lord] who speak in righteousness and am mighty to save.”
“Why are your garments red, as if you had trodden the winepress?”
“I have trodden the winepress alone: and of the people there was none to help Me. In My anger I trod them down, trampled them in My wrath. Their blood splattered My garments, and all My clothes are stained. For the day of vengeance is in My heart, and the year of My redeemed has come. . . I will tread down the people in My anger, and bring their blood upon the ground”.
These verses refer to Revelations chapter 19:11-21, when the Word of God destroys His enemies: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse: and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True. . . His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, and He had a Name written that no man knew but Himself. And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood, and His Name is called The Word of God. . . and He trod the winepress of God’s fierce anger”.
Jehovah of the Old Testament “hated Esau (Edom), against whom He has indignation forever” (Malachi 1:2-4). If Jesus will destroy Edom when He returns, then Edom is present today, and obviously evil, anti-Christian, and anti-Semitic.
The Edomite, Antipater, became the Procurator of Judea in 47BC. Ten years later his son Herod actually became “king of the Jews,” initiating the Edomite dynasty which ruled Palestine under Roman authority for over a hundred years. The Edomite assimilation opened the way for the virtual takeover along the lines predicted by Ezekiel and stimulus for an influx of population from the arid country of Edom into the more hospitable environment of Judea, an influx obviously encouraged for political reasons by the ruling Herodian dynasty. Edomites would have been appointed to the most influential positions, in order to extend and consolidate Edomite authority over the land and its people. Herod became notorious for his massacre of infant boys two years old and undger,” a supernaturally inspired attempt on the life of Christ (Matthew 2:16). Herod’s son Herod Antipas, continuing the work, and was responsible for the gruesome murder of John the Baptist (Matthew 14:6-12).
Christ demonstrated a very real antipathy towards the people called Jews, in Bibles published after about 1776, but who would be more accurately described as Judeans, or residents of the Edomite-dominated territory of Judea. Jesus said to the Jews “You do not believe because you are not of My sheep” (John 10:24-27). “I was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Matthew 15:24). In fact, Christ referred to “those Jews (or residents of Judea regardless of religion, race or color) who believed on him,” as “of their father the devil” for although they were children of Abraham, they were not children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and heirs of the blessing of Abraham, nor did they have the faith of Abraham, and were in all probability descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Esau (John 8: 31,44). In contrast, Jesus instructed His disciples – who were from Galilee of the Gentiles, not Judea (Acts 1:11; 2:7) – to pray to And in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, Jesus speaks of “those who say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan”.
The Jews shouted “Crucify Him!” (John 19:15); “His blood be on us and on our children” (Matthew 27:25). In an appropriate turn about, when Jesus returns, their blood will stain His own garments. The spiritual leaders of the Jews were the Pharisees, who not surprisingly were associated with the (Edomite) Herodians (Matthew 22:15-16; Mark 3:6; 12:13). Jesus repeatedly condemned the Pharisees as “hypocrites” (Matthew 15:7; 22:18; 23:13,15,23,25,27-27). He also called them “serpents, the offspring of vipers” (Matthew 3:7; 12:34; 23:33).
“Jesus spoke to the crowds only in parables” (Matthew 13:10-17). Why was this? Many nominal churches and Sunday schools teach that Jesus used parables to make His teachings clearer. But all four Gospels say the opposite. When Jesus was asked why He spoke to them in parables, He replied “Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given” (Matthew 13:10-11; Mark 4:11-12; Luke 8:9-10; John 12:37-44). Brother Branham simply said, Jesus spoke in parables to thin down the crowds.
Jesus told “those Jews who believed in Him . . . You are of your father the devil, and lust for what is forbidden. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him . . . as he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:31-44). This characteristic is confirmed by the dictionary definition of the verb jew .”
I’m genuinely curious, so please don’t take offense. Why do you believe this? What do you hope to accomplish and how does it help you spread the gospel? From your comments I believe you’re a Christian and I’d like to understand more about what you believe and why you believe it. Thank you.
Here’s a primer into it.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/86/8b/eb/868beb45d353894565e81c9c8b461019.jpg
I’m not confused about what sex I am. I know what sort of genitalia I was born with. This is not rocket science.
It is a J EW Hell hole they are creating for us all, and women try to ‘feel’ their way through all of this irrational degeneracy, after reading about Kaitlyn Jenner in People or US Magazine…. stupid sheep
I was the victim of a pedophile (my white biological father), and I now attend a church that is open and affirming of all people, including those who are LGBT. I have a daughter and worry much more about straight white males (highly represented in the pedophile group) than I do about people just because they happen to be gay or transgender. Take a look at your statistics. True pedophiles will seek opportunity without legislation…and most aren’t those you categorize so easily as child predators.
Perhaps he does. By you fall into that category for thinking transgenderism is anything but the mental disorder doctors have rightfully labeled it. Shame on you for your ignorance.
Bharford you are spot on. What many people (especially commenting on this thread) don’t seem to realize is that we are not all “afraid” of transgenders molesting anyone in the bathroom. Certainly that is a possibility, but not the major argument at all. The argument is to the stance of what point we as a society say that something is inherently wrong and will not stand for it. If we keep allowing every sick and sadistic group that comes along to do whatever they please without any repercussion then we will find ourselves in a society of chaos where anyone can get away with anything as long as they say they “felt like” doing it.
If a man can have multiple surgeries performed and actually cut off his genitalia out of pure desire to be a woman – that is sick. Multiple instances have show this to be a mental disorder (have at it with Google I won’t lengthen this even more with a thousand articles). Cutting off your genitalia doesn’t make you a woman. If you were born with male DNA you are a man for the rest of your life no matter what you do to your body. You can be a man without genitalia, who likes women’s clothing, who enjoys other feminine things – but you are a man nonetheless.
The day we promote this sick behavior as anything other than what it is ( a mental disorder), then we have failed as a society. And shame on target for promoting such behavior.
You actually just told a guy who is claiming the Jews are terrible as being “spot on”? Wow, Christians have really taken this all to an entirely new, non-remorseful direction. It’s vile.
It’s just unbelievable how ignorant and stupid you are. Do you even think at all? I hope you did not spawn.
I’d say the same, but judging by your comments I’d say you won’t even have the opportunity…
Lots. And Millions more just like me. And Trump will be the next President. Youll be on the other side of the wall or in a mental hospital
You are horrid. Not only do your views disgust and anger me, but using “retard” as a hurtful name for someone? That’s disgusting. If I believed in hell, you’d be there.
PS my comment was not in response to the article. The article is well put and researched and I agree wholeheartedly. My comment was in response to bharford. I even feel a little shameful for saying that someone is likely in hell, but when I reread that person’s response… nope – I’m right back there. Disgusting.
Youre typical for most atheist or agnostic trash. Stand for nothing belive in anything the J EW tells you tool. Stupid sheep
U do know that becoming trans is a process, right? U think a man will risk getting threatened, beat, stared at, etc., JUST to see a peak at u sitting ojna toilet thru a small crack in the door?
Process Schmocess…..If you have a penis, you use the mens bathroom. If you were born with a vagina, use the womens. This isn’t hard. F*ck you and your new world order.
it’s a bathroom. Get over yourself. Find something better to do with your life than spreading hate. i feel so sorry for people like you. You are a miserable person.
Indeed, its just a bathroom, USE the appropriate facility based on ones genital equiptment. YOU call it hate, because YOU hate the truth. Your Marxist agenda will not work.
May
04
15:37
Woman Chases Sex Offender Trying to Film Her at Target
By: AltMediaDaily
When a convicted voyeur approached Candace Spivey in Target talking up some story about shopping for a dress for his wife, Spivey recognized the man and the exact story he was telling; he had apparently already tried this tactic on her a couple years earlier at another store.
The man, identified by police as Jeffrey Polizzi, had been convicted in 2009 for “taking photographs of women in dressing rooms” (something that will be a lot easier for people like him to do at Target now, what with the store’s wonderful new “inclusive” restroom policy that allows men to use the women’s restrooms and changing rooms).
I have not been able to put into words how I feel. This has done just that and then some! Thank you!
Funny, it doesn’t appear to matter which side a person falls on, the name calling and inflammatory remarks fly. Calling someone an old white conservative bigot is just as bad as any of the other discriminatory remarks you can dream up. Just because it’s popular to bash conservatives or white people right now, doesn’t make it any different. Turns out discrimination is pretty easy to do, doesn’t it? Turns out that people are just mean and don’t care about the feelings/concerns/lives of people who don’t fit in their tribe.
Taking up for a cause doesn’t excuse slurring an individual or group of individuals because they are perceived as the “bad guy”.
Yes, I am white, yes I am over 30, yes I have children and a wife. AND YES, I have always been outspoken about rape, domestic violence, sexual assault, discrimination of any sort. Here’s the kicker: I also consider myself conservative. So take the name calling out of it and try to have an intelligent, respectful dialogue about it. Or shut up deal with the cards you’re dealt.
Civilization means that the we have a set of rules that we all follow in the public sphere. I believe that transgendered individuals have long been using the restroom of their choice. I’m not even sure how homo- or bi-sexuality got drug into this. Are gay men trying use the ladies room? Are gay women trying to use the men’s room? I have know three transgendered people, and only one of them was homosexual, the one born female. So how does it fit when a person born male that has a preference for intercourse with females and is also transgendered wants to use the ladies room? Wouldn’t it make more sense to push for single occupant only restrooms? And remove the gender/sex issue altogether? It didn’t become an issue until someone made it an issue attempting to get validation. Bad news guys, we are never going to agree on everything.
I LOVE that you actually encouraged people to have a respectful dialogue and in the exact same breath, told them to shut up and deal with the cards they’ve been dealt. It’s like you Christians aren’t quite real and are characters from the Onion.
Hate to break it to all of you but some pedophiles only target boys. Some of these sick people are in thw mens reatrooms with your husbands and sons. Yet none of you seem to worry until they want to let thwm into the women’s restroomas
“None of us seem to worry…” seriously!!?? Do you have any sons? If you did you wouldn’t make such an ignorant statement. I have 2 and absolutely worry about them! That doesn’t change the issue – men do not belong in a women’s public restroom and vice versa. Is common sense dead?
Shameful ‘open letter’; it is filled with anger and judgement. I’m one of those horrid people you wrote about – you know, the ones that don’t want to share a bathroom with a member of the opposite sex – ridiculous, I know, how could I be so selfish – ha! Problem is your rant doesn’t hold up. You accuse folks like me as ignorant and apathetic to our homeless children and victimized women – WRONG – I have actually donated my time, love and attention to women and children’s shelters and group homes and I have worked fundraisers that not only brought in money but also attention to their situations. I don’t just ‘write’ about it, I actually do stuff, contrary to what you write. But, you ARE a blogger and the number of ‘shares’, ‘likes’, followers, Tweets and attention YOU get is probably fairly important to you and sensationalist rants get attention! Obviously or I wouldn’t have wasted my time reacting. So, you can take that judgmental finger you are pointing and turn it 180 degrees. Next time, maybe post a pic of you at a women’s crisis shelter instead of Target if you really want to make a point, but Target appreciates the free press.
Then please tell me why you don’t want to share the woman’s restroom with someone that looks like a women and has a vagina (despite the XY chromosomes). I understand that you may be sensitive to homelessness but we were talking about transgendered rights. What reason do you have that is more important that the fact that fifty percent of transgendered people attempt or commit suicide (Trevor’s Project website)? I cannot see why someone of your obvious capacity for sympathizing with people cannot empathize with this obviously marginalized demographic and give them the humanizing experience of choosing to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with.
Excellent post. One of the best I’ve read recently. I’m working on a post against a bathroom bill that’s going to be proposed in my state, and a lot of what you said resonated with me. I might even use the articles you linked to in my post. Thanks for writing this post and being a voice of reason when so many people seem to be abandoning reason in favor of fear or hate or what they think is good for them.
Appeal to emotion? check. False equivalency? check. Bashing people who dont’ agree with your progressive agenda? check. Freshly pressed? aw hell yes
So all this debate is about……restrooms. WOW. RESTROOMS are just places where you take a shit and go about your day, THEY ARE NOT a Chicago guetto bunch of worrywarts. The author is paranoid in general, and so are the rest of the people thinking restrooms are “DANGEROUS” places, whether queers/he-she’s are allowed in them or not.
Another loving Christian, checking in.
Yikes … nice generalization there, drinsf! The bathroom situation has nothing to do with Christian beliefs or moral values. Beside that, it has nothing to do with LGBT beliefs or moral values, either. It is a stunt to keep people fighting. How do I know this? There have been LGBT members since forever ago, and they didn’t just start having to relieve themselves of bodily waste only recently. But I guess if you are a non-Christian, you blame us for everything. Even though, nowhere in the Bible does it say, thou shall not use bathrooms if you are mentally confused about your genetic and biological makeup. LGBT people have been using public restrooms for ages. Now there is suddenly a problem? There needs to be a law over it? Here’s a law for everyone. Ban perverts from public restrooms, altogether. Oh wait. They are. Perverts are banned from ever assaulting anyone. They still do it, because (drum roll please) THEY ARE EVIL. Or at the very least, mentally ill. Here’s a better idea, let’s screw with the laws that are already reasonable to introduce some invisible threat that will keep LGBT and CIS-STRAIGHT OR WHATEVER NORMAL PEOPLE ARE CALLED NOW ANGRY … AND KEEP THEM FIGHTING!!! Makes sense.
Your hostility is really winning over a lot of non-believers. Nice job.
Then you haven’t been listening!!
great 🙂
It’s obvious people have lost their mind, common sense is not common anymore because everyone wants to be politically correct. That’s all foolishness.
Gays and Lesabians and the ones that want to be another sex need God and needs to be saved so they can change their sinful ways and make it to heaven,God can fix you and change the way you feel .l will and have been praying for all of you!Please ask God for forgiveness so we all can see one another in Heaven.
what are lesabians genius? I bet you watch lesabian porn hypocrite. Burn the putrid male fags in HELL! But keep the “lesabians”, they’re hot as hell.
AMURIKA!
I disagree with the idea of making all bathrooms “gender neutral”. No, I’m not afraid of the transgenders that might go in there. I’m more afraid of the perverts and pedophiles that claim to be transgender just so they can get into the bathrooms. I realize that if a pervert wants to commit a crime that ,no, this may not stop him completely. But at least what it does do is to put one more obstacle in their way. Pretty much the same as locking your front door. It may not stop a robbery by itself,but, it will put one more obstacle in the bad guys way. Why can’t we just compromise a little bit? Target should keep separate facilities for men and women, but also have a single occupancy unisex bathroom option for the trans community and for those who like using the bathroom alone. Seriously. What’s wrong with that idea? It seems that it would satisfy everyone on both sides of the issue.
It’s not good enough if they can’t force their way in where they are not wanted.
This is so spot on. After talking about being catcalled, I was told that it was a minor situation and I don’t know true fear. Those same people are now claiming to care about my safety in public restrooms. The only consistency these protesters need is to be cruel and to belittle (even if it contradicts their previous protests.)
This post is incredible. Great job!
Let the almost 6% stock drop speak for itself. It’s called Common Sense. Nazi Liberals are not familiar.
All stocks have been tanking, a correlation doesn’t equal causation.
Viralcrank.wordpress.com
I think people are so crazy, they are not going into the bathroom to spy on you. They are just like you, if you want to know what they genitals are then you are the stalker.
Wow …to say people are not going into the bathroom to spy on you ….hey we live in a perfect world too!
This is an awesome blog post because it highlights the political nature of a lot of these issues and how the wolves in sheep clothing manipulate and turn neighbors against each other.
Real Christians care about the prisoners who are cast aside by society to become more and more agents of darkness.
Real Christians care about the starving and the naked.
Real Christians care about the stranger!
Those are all things by the way that God identified himself as.
And when it comes to anyone in the LGBT community or others we don’t view people as Predators or Evil-Does. Our response should be of helping where we can and trying to be spiritual friends in a discussion that revolves around peace and meaning.
There were only two commands Christ gave us…
You can view those sexual identities as outside the fold of the idealic order but the rhetoric and bigotry/prejudice and misrepresentation of the reality isn’t the truth and it’s a sin to lie and mislead people and mischaracterize realities because you don’t want to get into deeper and more complex discussions/investigations.
Thanks for a wonderful post.
Reblogged this on Sweetest Perfection.
in the end … what shows love? In the end…what is kind? In the end … shouldn’t we ALWAYS have cared for our children’s safety whether it’s in a public bathroom or at school or at a family member’s home? Why is it now that we care? Hate.
This is possibly the best freaking post levelling a field that I’ve ever seen.
Seriously, I’ve seen loads for and against, but nothing that ever cleaned something up so clearly.
Ever though about running for government or something cause I think the world needs more people like this in it.
We have too much bias in the media now, worldwide.
This trans situation hits home quite a bit for me, due to a family member going through it currently.
Keep going miss, you speak more sense then anyone on TV.
Well done for boldly taking on self-righteousness with deft penmanship.
You sir are very generous, calling this POS rant “deft”.
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Well that’s very spammy, just like if I was to type http://www.viralcrank.wordpress.com lololololol call me trollolololol. But on a serious note, fuck webit34.
Stop spamming this board with irrelevant messages. Please have some shame.
Well that’s what we call a dragon spitting fire of mass destructive and opiniated words, am not an American chickas, but for sure am a citizen of the world, all eyes are on the US, for as much as I know the USA are being followed and taken for example in many countries by many people. As a mother I care a lot for the security of my children but am a bit sceptical on this matter, there is too many mix feelings and not enough of the people that are really concerned about that particular matter expressing themselves here.
Don’t you people see? Do I have to spell it out?THIS OLD HAG IS TROLLING US HARD WITH THIS ATTENTION-SEEKING CONTROVERSIAL BULLSHIT POST.
Btw you can get a free .co domain at http://popchest.co it is better than wordpress.com subdomains.
Akhismet wasn’t that just a spam that I saw here!!
It wasn’t, and fyi it is akismet. You’re welcome.
Excellent One
keep it up
If you don’t Mind Check Mine Too 🙂
Stop the madness.
Don’t you people see?
Do I have to spell it out?
THIS OLD HAG IS TROLLING US HARD WITH THIS ATTENTION-SEEKING CONTROVERSIAL BULLSHIT POST.
There.
Now you know.
Your welcome.
Reblogged this on Life is for Living and commented:
I don’t live in the USA but I have been following this story and believe there are some valid points being raised in this post. I wouldn’t say however that people have been totally silent in important issues … maybe just not as vocal as they probably could have been, especially when viewed against this particular backdrop. What do you think? Don’t let your silence be deafening. Leave a comment and continue the conversation.
The. Whole world should change because of a few people . Hey america can you cater to my needs also?? Any of you that don’t like it are full of hate. Haha Just to sit back and watch these people in this country is unbelievable. I hope we don’t get into a war BC we sure as heck don’t stand up for what we believe in.
Why not ask for a private restroom its that simple. You guys don’t want to do that though?? Why is that?
Every issue and movement has a watershed moment. All of the incidents that you discussed were not national news, we’re not talked about in my region and are not something I search outt. This was the street, enough is enough. The pc mentality has gone too far and people are sick of it. So this isn’t about whether the boycotted would be outraged at the events in this article it’s about the end of the line. Finally a stand must be taken, I am taking that stand with my dollars.
Based on 2010 census estimates there are approximately 24k Trans people in America and as of 2016 804k registered sex offenders. The risk exists whether you want to admit it or not. All of this hoopla over 24k people in this country. When does the pc, make everyone happy mentality end.
And so there is no confusion for the trolls and uneducated people out there. The incidents in this article are horrifying and deserve as much or more support as is being given to the target boycott.
This so needed to be said. Thank you.
Why are you ASSUMING I wasn’t standing up for these injustices? This is just one situation that is in my control to do something. Writing letters to district attorneys and signing petitions has been my practice so the attitude you have is wrong towards boycotting Target. Proactive is something I can do daily when I need to shop. Don’t assume anything! Did YOU do anything for the situations you mentioned?
Great article
Wow. Regardless of where you stand on an issue, what a poignant question. Where were you when countless women and men were crying out against rape and assault? When there are people who are AFRAID of their partner, sometimes even terrified to run (75% of domestic violence related deaths occur while the abused is trying to leave)? Where was the concern then?
Great blog. I started writing a similar one last week and couldn’t quite get the thoughts out the way you did. I agree wholeheartedly.
“I’m not under any obligation to respect their beliefs” Exactly! That is why so many people who do not agree with Target’s position are exercising their rights to shop where ever they choose. This is an issue that would have never crossed my mind until it was in my face via the media. I do not look under the stalls to see which way the shoes are pointed! I believe everyone has the right to make decisions about the path they take in life. I have the right to my beliefs. I am not a homophobe or hater of individuals because of their choices. Stop hating me because I choose to live my life as God intended. Oh No! There it is . . . “God” I could care less about your comments on this . . . . once God is introduced in my thoughts, there will be more haters towards me and my beliefs. Remember . . . I’m not under any obligation to respect your beliefs either. What are you so afraid of? Probably the same things I fear as a Christian . . . . accountability for my actions. Life is not easy, no matter what path you choose.
This is why the MAJORITY of Americans will be voting for Trump. He is NOT politically correct. We are sick to death of political correctness. We will most likely have a person as the President of the United States for the next for 4 years mainly because he is not a politician and does not give a care about who he offends. It’s right down scary to think all this PC crap may be the reason we have a POTUS who is Donald Trump.
Oh wow. You can’t hear this, but I’m stamping my feet and cheering for you. Loudly. And then I’m gonna go post this to my social media accounts, ’cause I think everyone should read it.
I agree! This article is amazingly written. Thank you for being a voice for us.
Yes yes yes exquisite hitting every nail in the head.
Well I guess people are not being silent!
If I’m not mistaken, you used the “pro transgender bathroom” a start off parable almost stating the fact that they aren’t the problem, a person has equal chance of getting abused in either bathroom, but making the point of many other atrocities that occur in the nation (and throughout the world actually), that people “sit back and watch” rather than doing anything about.
Like the gun issue, a little bg check is by far virtually nothing (as far as control)
the rape thing, etc.
As one who does boycott such isues, probably not in the same way, you did bring some good points across I have to say.
If I don’t want to purchase products from a store who has clearly made a statement that is not in agreement with who I am as a person then that is my choice. where were you when the blood of my ancestors paid dearly for my freedom??
Well said sister!
I see both sides of the point. I see the concern over the PC BS which I’m sick of and I understand the validity of the argument that otherwise with so many other issues no one’s said a word or done much about it.
I remember a time when if a little boy or girl wanted to buy a boy or girl toy you just bought it. You didn’t need a special aisle or a ungendered aisle you just buy the shit you want end of story. There are some things that as a parent I’ll be honest when I say I don’t want to explain to my barely 5 year old. In due time, yes we can address issues like this when she can both understand and if it opens a flood gate of other questions shes more capable of understanding.
For now, I like to keep it G and tell her things like accept everyone even if they don’t look like you, everyone is different and beautiful. Don’t stare at people if they have something different that’s not nice because their a person just like you. I like it that way because after all she’s only 5.
I don’t want to convince you to change the way you’re raising your child – quite the opposite in fact – but if you’re sick of acceptance, fairness, decency, and understanding of both people and facts about human psychology (or “PC BS” as you put it) why are you raising your child to accept it?
My direct issue is with the fact that everyone’s offended. Offended by coffee cups, bathrooms etc. I understand the term reasonable accommodations but it gets to a point where it’s ridiculous. In not teaching my daughter to be an asshole hence why I do teach her to love and respect others of their differences. Again the issue is with the constant crutch needing. Can’t call a holiday show a holiday or a Christmas show because I’m offended, call it winter display. That’s not ridiculous? I think it is. How have we been managing before we could whine and cry about Christmas and its offenses is beyond me.
Thank you so much for sharing, I couldn’t of said it better. I pray that your voice and this article reaches us all loving and concern parents to stand and support. Regaining a piece of sanity to those that have lost it. I thank you for sharing, for being such strong, involved mother and concern. You do not worry to much, is love for your kids that drive you. There should be more woman like you.
Really nice!!! Like it.
I understand your point, but why create more dangers?
It’s not the transgender part that bothers me. It’s that Target has taken it a step further in saying that a heterosexual male can say he identifies himself with women and therefore, can go into the women’s restroom. At least this is what my local Target said to me. If this is the case then they should make their restrooms for a single occupancy.
Someone is STILL breaking the law if they assault someone in a bathroom. No matter who they are. So, this person that had intent to assault someone now sees this law as their point of opportunity? A few things still have to exist. Say this hetero dude goes in a women’s bathroom with the intent to assault. He picks a time when no one else goes in so there are no witnesses.
Under those conditions, why would this person’s actions be influenced by a bathroom policy to begin with?
It would give him an opportunity to linger in the bathroom, the reality is most transgenders have used women bathrooms and most people may have not even know it. But make it a law and it will open up opportunities for a sick man to put on a dress to hang out in women’s bathrooms. It may not happen right away but it will happen. I would bet you on it.
Transgender women don’t just look like men in dresses, sometimes that’s how it is in the beginning but for the most part, they do everything they can to make themselves look as nice as possible and as feminine as possible. A man walking into a bathroom in a dress would look clearly like a man in a costume. And you know men can just go in at any time right? There has never been a bouncer outside making sure people go into the correct bathroom.
Nope. I was assaulted twice, in two different countries (one being at my own place of employment with lots of people around), by men who didn’t care about a sign on a door and weren’t dressed as anything other than men. They only needed an opportunity, seconds, no “putting on a dress” required, and no law will change that one way or the other.
It has never happened. You’re ignorant.
At no point have you ever known you were sharing a bathroom with a Trans person. And I’m certain that you have. This has nothing to do with your ‘fear’ for our or our children’s safety and everything to do with the fact that you fear what you don’t understand. As a biologically born female, who plans to stay that way, if the ladies room in full I have and will do so again, walked right across the alcove and used the mens room. Hell, once at a friends wedding after party I had to straddle a urinal while wrestling hose and underwear and a skirt. The few men who wandered in, in that 30 seconds at most of time I was there either said nothing, looked scared of me, or were friendly and thought it was kind of cool I wasn’t scared to just go fucking pee.
Most Trans people who feel they are ready to switch bathrooms to their preferred gender vs their genetic one, have spent YEARS perfecting the way they walk/talk/move/dress/ and groom. (I dare one of y’all terrified AFA men to even attempt to pull off passable female, when you realize how much work shaving EVERYTHING is and then get to the eyeliner/mascara game, you’d give up.
She’s right in her blog. I’ve been molested 3 times, BY FAMILY MEMBERS on both sides, and raped 7 as an adult. only 6 of which I even bother to take to the cops. 6 reports, 6 just as violating as the rape, rape kits. at least 48 items of clothing I’ll never get back and 7 men who got away with it, because we’ve been crying out for help for years and YOU guys aren’t listening.
This isn’t about us or your kids or anyone else’s kids. It’s about your own fear and IMO in the case of the AFA, free publicity.
So shut up, since you won’t help all of us, haven’t helped any of us over the years and just let people pee any place they choose (you shouldn’t be looking at them anyway, weirdos.
Thank you for the blog, it’s exactly what I’ve been trying to say for a while now.
Dia
Find me @ http://snarkysuccubus.com/
Help me @ https://www.gofundme.com/diamedical
Anonymous, read the post again.
Please stop pretending like you care about women being assaulted by men in the women’s restroom, because you don’t.
If you had bothered to read the post, or even read what’s been going on in the news, you’d realize that men in dresses assaulting women and children is not, nor has ever been a problem.
The problem, the actual real life problem, is that the threat, the real live threat to women and children is outside of the women’s restroom, not by men in dresses, but by men, mostly heterosexual men, who are quite comfortable in their gender.
This is the real life threat to women and children that they face every day, and they’ve been facing this threat for years, and oh, you suddenly care because of the prospect that you might have to share a bathroom with A transsexual/transgendered male?
Are you not afraid that a male sex offender will take advantage of new bathroom laws to claim he was born female but got a sex change operation?
Please stop pretending like you even care about women being raped and children molested. Target declared they’re a trans-friendly place, and suddenly you care about rape and child molestation?
Read this post in its entirety. It asks a very important question.
Where have you been?
How is it you suddenly care, where you never gave a damn before?
The whole point people are trying to make with Target is not the Transgender, the men don’t have to be dressed as a woman, they can freely walk into a Ladies restroom and no one can stop them, with this being the case you don’t think that a rapist or pedifile won’t eventually use this as an opportunity!
Which is EXACTLY what they could have done and would have done and have done in the past, with or without the law. Period. Predators don’t let laws stop them.
do you not understand that there was NOTHING stopping men dressed as men could ALWAYS do this. If a predator is hunting, unless we’ve suddenly landed in Silence of the Lambs (and we haven’t) he’s not going to care about your laws or anyone else’s. This is what makes them criminals and predators.
She right.
Where were you.
Where have you been
Let me show you what happens when you aren’t there, aren’t listening or don’t care.
This is the story of the little girl who could have been, but never was, and yet still is. Mine may read differently than another girl who went through the same things, but I’ll bet the little girls who could have been are massive in number, and become victims and/or survivors as adult women, who are STILL crying out, Where were you when I/We needed you?
” “Julia is the name of a little girl whose mother left her father because she came home and on her 18mos old child she saw an adult male hand print bruised purple on her face “because she wouldn’t fucking shut up.” Julia is the name given to a little girl who’s potential to be anything was taken from her at 2 years old when a grown man tried to shove his cock inside her and then when he couldn’t he used her to rub himself on, multiple times a day,Julia was the name of a little girl who’s first acid trip was at 4 because her mother’s stupid stoned friends didn’t realize LSD passes through skin contact and sweat and to even go pee, she had to wade through them, all of them wanting to touch the “angel” (4 year olds don’t have good acid trips btw) Julia was the name of a little girl who at 5 learned to use a radiant heater to fry eggs and bacon on top without setting the house on fire because none of the adults would get up and there was nothing else. Julia was the name of a little girl who was constantly, hungry, for attention, for affection, for anything so long as she wasn’t abandoned again, because it had happened so many times that she clung to what she could get anywhere she could get it. It was never enough, and was known to whisper in her sleep “please don’t hurt me, I can’t take anymore”‘ followed by ‘please don’t leave me though, I can’t do this alone”(and some days still does.) Julia was a woman who sleeps boxed in with pillows and stuffed animals because her closet is too full to hide in the back of when the monsters still come when she closes her eyes and they don’t make wooden slat toy boxes big enough for her to fit in, because in there she thought she was safe She wasn’t. Julia is what they call this shell that looks so much like what that little girl would have, had she not died, in 1973, at the hands of the people who should have been protecting her and maybe one day, I’ll get her a memorial stone somewhere and inscribe it “Julia, the little girl that could have been.”
I go by Dia now, because that name I chose, it’s one that no one who’s violated or hurt me has ever used, and that story up there, doesn’t scratch the surface.
You’re worried about who pee’s where, while day after day uncountable women, men, children and LGBT people are abused, molested, hurt, permanently scarred or killed. If any of the above survive the assault, they’re left like me 43 with ptsd and immune illnesses that can be traced back to the history of abuse.
You don’t know this or you don’t care and below this line is why.
BECAUSE YOU HAVEN’T BEEN LISTENING AND THE LOUDER WE CRIED THE LESS YOU HEARD.
So you were never there. You’re still not.
Find me @ http://snarkysuccubus.com/
Help me @ https://www.gofundme.com/diamedical
You replied to the wrong person. I’m agreeing with you.
probably a sleepy as hell miss click, I do it sometimes.
I think you are the one not reading the replies… I don’t think anyone is afraid of the Transgendered community… they are afraid of what this law is opening up. It gives privacy for the assaults/rape. You have a lot to say, but you definitely have a listening problem.
@JKK — Do re-read the posting. When has rape and murder ever been stopped by “privacy”….
Do check out the statistics of violence and mayhem that women and children have lived under for thousands of years under the Male Entitlement Social System….
This is just another opportunity for homophobes to promote more hatred, more control of others. Dr. Kris
How do you know what people care about or protest!? Just because they disagree with you
on this particular issue doesn’t mean they do
not care about rape,abuse or any other horrible thing that people do to each other!
The policy has not been in place long enough to claim it will cause more men to walk into women’s restrooms and assault, however there have been 24 incidents in the news in the last week. I wonder if the numbers are going to go up or if men are just going to decide to hang out in women’s locker rooms, changing rooms and restrooms because they can.
I’d think, in a well lit, well trafficked public restroom, you’d better buy a book before you go lurk, it’s probably going to be a long boring day, with water flushes and sinks running. Criminals don’t obey the law. So new laws won’t stop them. Go find something else to get in a twist about.
…and just what do you think would happen to the transgender weoman who enters a male bathroom?
This is not about transgender women entering a woman’s restroom. its about Target allowing anyone who says they identify as a female to enter the womens restroom.. If you people would pay attention to what is truly going on you would see our need to protect the innocent.. Again the proposal that individual restrooms would do away with the problem for all.. We would all have our safety and privacy we deserve..For some strange reason transgenders don’t like that idea.. We have to ask ourselves why?? What would be your purpose in fighting such a proposal??
The bathrooms are a mere convenience for the public. Dont want to share one, dont use a public bathroom. Were fighting for all thie privacy In a convenience stores so graciously provide. They dont have to and can allow whoever they wish in those bathrooms. Youre fighting for a privilege, not a right. Go use your own personal bathroom. Problem solved.
“For some strange reason”
And with those 4 words you have explained your stance: you believe those who are trans are those who will be predators. It is clear. And it is also wrong.
That’s dumb. I don’t agree with what he said but for you to choose 4 words to focus on and twist how you please is so counterproductive.
She will pee.
Nothing they can get anything in the world changed ,but they still do NOT look like women!
Target never changed their policy, they just verbalized what has always been. All Targets have unisex bathrooms, so just use that bathroom from now on if you’re truly afraid of a situation that has NOT changed. It was just brought to your attention. But like the author above pointed out, there have been no changes in other states who already do what Charlotte is trying to do. I found the same data in my own research. The law has never made it ok for one person to assault another. Never!
This objection, the “man claiming to identify as a woman” is based in mainly on a misconception that transgender people are somehow confused and may vary their identity from one day to the next, hence giving cover to a capricious and spurious claim. That isn’t how transgender works. Think about it: a guy does what you say and Target kicks him out, maybe calls the police if he was being especially creepy. What is he going to do about it, sue them? To do that, he has to stand up in court and say “I identify as transgender female”. That will lead to a lot of questions about the nature of that identification. It would make things MORE difficult for the very hypothetical predator if trans people were allowed, even encouraged to live more openly, because spurious claims would be harder to defend. But then, somewhat closer to the point of the article, isn’t the real issue that we believe there is a sizable population of men that would do this, and rather than confront this supposed army of rapists and the culture that breeds them, we want to pick on sexual minorities? Of course the whole “we need to protect the women and children” line has always been a refuge for scoundrels.
I kind of get the deeper concern that such policies could weaken gender distinctions, making it more difficult to look at someone and tell which gender they are. I wish this would be stated more openly, so that we could discuss it more honestly. Scientifically, the cues we use to tell the gender of other people are more subtle than we things, and more culturally variant. With pre-adolescents we often resort to conventions of color or dress, and that sometimes is the case with adults. Everyone has met people who, like “Pat” from the old SNL sketch, are visually somewhere in the middle. Counter-intuitively, the transgender do not weaken these conventions, but utilize and reinforce them.
Ultimately, we live in a free society where people can mostly look and dress how they choose. There are risks involved in that, and sometimes you won’t always be comfortable. Somehow we are willing to allow the crazies to arm themselves in the name of Freedom, but draw the line at letting anyone who kinda looks female into the Ladies’ Room.
Disclaimer: I am cisgender hetero male ally. I may speak up for my friends, but I do not speak for them.
They go through such intense psychological tests just to avoid the very situation we’re (general we) casting them in now. To see if they really are trans, to see if they can mentally handle living as their preferred gender. By the time they start using public restrooms, pre or post operation. Most of us wouldn’t (and probably already haven’t) even noticed. People think they have a reason to be scared of them? This a whole group of people, who do count as equally as you or I would being cis-gendered, who are TERRIFIED of us. Of not just rejection by people at Target but quite a few don’t have any family to fall back on for emotional support.
more people should try being an ally and less of an asshole. Life would be better.
I agree transgenders have been free to use any bathroom they want and they know that too, if they don’t bother anyone they won’t even be noticed. But to pass a law that permits a man to use the ladies room depending on how he feels about himself with no exceptions, leaves the innocent at risk and the evil in control.Ladies bathrooms have always been a draw for the pervert and evil minded, who don’t go there for innocent bodily functions, but to prey on the weak. If target cares about all their customers let them make individual stalls, Before someone gets hurt. It will save them money in the long run and be a good promotion for their ‘good will’ if that’s what it truly is about. Until then I will shop elsewhere. I have enough to worry about, and my grandkids always seem to need to use the restroom when we shop.
Go ahead to Walmart. Because there won’t be a man hiding in the bathroom there to assault your grandchildren because predators will always follow rules….Oh wait……
My friend’s daughter was assaulted in a Walmart bathroom. By a man. In the ladies room. Not in a dress, not trying to pretend he is female. No by a man who just walked right in and hid. He came out and mugged her.
This happens sometimes, not as often as you nutbars believe, but when it does, people are not dressed as other genders, ever.
Way to totally miss the point. Bravo.
Target typically has a family bathroom with one toilet. Use it and quit worrying.
Also, may I mention, as it may help you in other discussions of this nature, that sexuality and transgenderism are not related. You use the term ‘heterosexual’ as if it is the opposite of trans when that is not the case. There are trans folks who are straight and trans folks who are gay and probably every shade between and beyond that as well. Exactly the same as in the non-trans (e.g cis, short for cis-gender which is the actual opposite of trans-gender) folks.
Good knowledge for non American
You’re awesome and you write so wonderfully! Thank you for these words! Have a good day!
This!!! Sooooo this!!!! Thank you for putting the anger and frustration of many women into words.
Absolutely beautiful!
I don’t think you can write this claiming people are not involved in the rights of women and children. I happen to be involved . I still don’t agree with Targets policy or any stores policy that allows men and women to use the same restroom. When unirals are placed in what use to be the women’s room, what should I tell my grand-daughters ? I do not feel my 5 yr old grand-daugthers should be exposed to a strangers penis! Transgendered, Homosexual or Heterosexual.
Yeah I saw that picture too, turned out to be a hoax. The women’s room at that Target was being renovated, so they temporarily converted the men’s bathroom into the women’s, that’s why there were big plastic bags over the urinals. The men used the pharmacy bathroom. Men and women will not be using the same bathroom under Target policy. In fact laws like the one in North Carolina would force transgender men to use the women’s room and vice versa
Really do you think NC is going to stand at restrooms and tell women to lift up their dresses?? If you have truly undergone surgery that has changed your male parts into female parts then all you have to do is go and have your birth certificate changed to female, because apparently that is what they are now.. No one is going to have a problem with those people in a womens room.. Realistically they can’t go into a mans room any longer.. Yet for those transgenders or cross dressers or even men pretending to be women will not have a right to enter the facility of their choice..You are making this law about more than it is.. Without justification..
A lot of states don’t LET people change their birth certificate or ID, even if they have had surgery. Seriously, just check out this link to see how different policies can be from state to state: http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/changing-birth-certificate-sex-designations
(Let’s just leave aside for a moment the fact that, for many trans people, surgery isn’t an option even if they want it – it’s really expensive and most insurance doesn’t cover it. Not that every trans person even has insurance, since job discrimination means that trans people are twice as likely to be unemployed as the general population.)
Wow. So much deception and ignorance in one post, it’s stunning.
Wow, you have really made an exaggeration about this topic. NOBODY is putting urinals in the ladies room. And HB2 does NOTHING to protect anyone. The same sickos who want to do bad things, will do bad things. Nothing is there to stop them. She is saying that there have always been risks but there have also been transgender people in the bathroom with you and you didn’t even know it. They are not the risks. I’m not worried about a trans male in the bathroom with my son and I’m not worried about a trans female who hasn’t had sex reassignment yet, in the bathroom with my daughter. The law is meant to protect her and her counterparts so that she can peacefully go in and use a stall so that nobody will see anything, despite her still having the penis she was mistakenly born with.
What do you mean the law was meant to protect her? Do you mean the trans woman? I beg to differ. Would that that were the case. It’s not. It is meant to punish, ostracize, coerce, and a bunch of other things. Other than that, I agree with you.
pretty sure anyone coming in to USE the bathroom, particularly a ladies room with doors that close, isn’t going to flash anything at anyone. AND you fell for a hoax. Here, try this in the future http://www.snopes.com before reacting.
If that’s the case what’s the fn problem with them using the men’s room??? Guess if they can get into woman’s bathroom it will make them feel more like a woman.
as a biological female I /have/ used the men’s room. At concerts, at parties, at dance clubs and even at a Target. I didn’t assault anyone or be assaulted by anyone. I just went to the gorram bathroom. And you you realize just how hate-filled your last sentence is. I’m not even christian and I think you need a come to Jesus meeting lady. TRANSSEXUAL means that for what ever reason that person has taken the steps required to identify as the gender they feel SHOULD have been their birth gender. I’ve not met one that would harm anyone. Most of them (and there aren’t that many, they make up a very small percentage of the population. the ones that are out about it anyway) are FAR more scared of you than you should ever be of them. I’d suggest a movie, but you won’t watch it, The lesbian scenes might turn you gay, or less bigoted. Better than Chocolate, is the movie and it depicts a scene that is something that m2f of f2m Trans persons live with daily. and THEY are not the risk. People like you are.
I am a man and I use the men’s room, and I assure you in my 41 years on this earth that no one in the men’s room is flaunting their penis around. As a matter of fact there is basically silence, they come in and pee, and get out. We don’t have chit-chat in men’s rooms. So while I agree they should go to their own bathrooms, your fears are quite misguided. Go to the family restroom if you are so worried about seeing a random penis in the future.
The woman who wrote this article contradicts her own beliefs from the start. When she said, “I have always accompanied my younger kids to the bathroom in public places. When my son was too old to go into the women’s room, I would stand right outside the Men’s room door. If he was taking a while I would yell through the door, asking if he was ok. So, yes, I’m that mom.”
Why would she stand outside the men’s room when her child was in there? Because she knows what could happen inside a bathroom…that’s why.
Well now those same men she worried about in the men’s bathroom have an open invitation to come into the women’s restroom. Doesn’t that concern her? It should. It’s going to happen thanks to people like her who put feelings above safety.
I get it that if a man wanted to go into a woman’s restroom in the past they could. But it did raise a red flag which definitely increased their chances of getting caught and acted as a deterrent. Now they have a free pass.
The reason people are more passionate about this topic is because it’s a safety concern for everyone everyday.
Not saying the other issues aren’t important because they are but issues like domestic violence, the homeless, and priests abusing children aren’t a safety risk every time we need to use a public restroom. That’s why people are so angry.
I hope nothing bad ever happens to the people who think this is a good idea but unfortunately I think that’s what it will take to make them see the safety risk involved here.
If you think the answer to making a restroom safer for transgender people is to make it unsafe for other people you haven’t solved anything.
I guess you didn’t get to the part where she said open bathroom policy’s have not led to an increase in assaults but have in fact decreased them for LGBT people.
There is not enough data. No one carted about this until the unemployed gay marriage advocates had to get on a new bandwagon or get a real job.
First of all, there could be a number of reasons why she was standing outside the men’s room for her son to come out once he was finished using the facilities. Lots of things could happen inside a bathroom – water on the floor could cause the child to slip, fall, and hurt themselves, the child could have a pre-existing health condition that requires her to stay nearby since the child is still a minor, she could be staying near the bathroom in case a male predator tries to convince her child to go somewhere else with him. Also, the same men who would be preying on a young boy in the men’s restroom are usually not ones to go after grown women – they have a certain taste (for lack of a better word).
You also should read the article – the writer posts various links that prove that LGBTQ friendly bathrooms do not increase assault by any means.
Also, if I were ever in the bathroom and a man entered with a full on beard, wearing a dress, and looking like he was up to some shady business (and not just going in, using the bathroom, washing hands, and leaving) I would definitely say something, the same way I would expect a man to ask a woman dressed as a man who enters the men’s room with no intent to use the restroom. They do not have a free pass. If a man posing as a transgender female goes into the restroom and assaults someone, that is still assault, they will still have to answer to the law. Do you think if they throw up their hands and say, “Oh, I’m sorry I touched that woman in the bathroom, but I’m transgender,” the authorities will say, “Ah! Yes! Right you are, off you go then.”
And this is not a safety concern for everyone, every day. I don’t know if I’ve ever HEARD of a cis male or cis female posing as a transgender in order to gain access to the opposite sex’s bathroom to abuse someone. EVER. People just want to go in, use the bathroom, and get the fuck out. I can’t tell you how many public restrooms I’ve been in and I don’t think I have ever feared for my safety.
When I have feared for my safety, as a woman, is when I’m walking to my car at night after the movies or dinner by myself and am scared that someone could jump out from between cars in a parking lot and grab me and assault me, or drive by in a larger car and pull me in and take me to a second location to do God knows what. I’ve feared for my safety when I had a boss sexually harass me and NOBODY believed me. I’m scared for my girlfriends who have had the same experiences. I was taught growing up to always watch my drink at a party or at a bar (no matter how small the party or how dead the bar was) in case a man decided to slip a drug into my drink so they could take advantage of me later on. These are EVERY DAY SAFETY CONCERNS that women think about and deal with every. single. day. And yet why aren’t you voicing your concerns about that? Why are you focused on a bathroom situation?
I really could give a shit who pees in the stall next to me and I can tell you a lot of other people feel the same way.
Instead of being so hung up on a bathroom situation, you should realize that the majority of people who rape or assault or molest or any of those things are usually done by people the victim already knows (I was molested when I was FOUR and it was a neighbor who did it. I went over there to play all the time). I urge you to read first hand accounts from rape and harassment survivors in this country (of all ages). I can guarantee that the vast majority of stories will be centered on victims who already knew their attackers.
Please educate yourself.
Urinals don’t sexually assault people. SEXUAL PREDATORS DO.Making another stupid law will not protect anyone. Criminals, predators or burglars Etc. do not carry a list of laws with them. By definition they are there to break the law for their own gain.
Admit it, they just want in because we have better soap and lotions in there and most women’s rooms don’t reek due to bad aim. That’s the real issue, right?
I’ve never cared about transgenders using the bathroom beside me. And I’ve cared enormously, for years, about sexual assault.
The reason I find essays like this so profoundly aggravating is you are taking the arguments from your most asinine opponents and acting as if their inability to present a clear argument somehow puts you on moral high ground.
Some people are drawing a line here because there are larger issues involved, and this snowballing situation clearly shows the intrusion of an ideology determined to tell people with real, valid questions that they’re just bigots. Gosh, what a thought-stopping argument. Let’s not discuss ideas, just say it over and over again: Bigot bigot bigot, coward coward coward, ignorant ignorant ignorant.
Right. I’m ignorant because I think a little boy who likes to put on dresses might not need hormone-suppressing treatments. I’m ignorant because I think encouraging little girls or little boys to put on lipstick or play with Bratz dolls is inappropriate sexualization. I’m ignorant because I think a 14-year old girl getting her period for the first time in a swimming pool locker room deserves to not be exposed to people with fundamentally different anatomy. I’m ignorant because I think our bodies are good, and telling -children- their head and body don’t match, and their body is wrong, is pretty much the definition of cruelty. I’m ignorant because a radically anti-matter ideology tells people who so much as question what the definition of T really is, or how we can tell who is fundamentally enduring that situation or who is gravitating to questioning the binary because they’ve absorbed repressive sexual roles, are bigots. Again, I’m a bigot for even having questions. So tolerant!
I’m angry because there is an overwhelming effort to marginalize people questioning sexual stereotypes. I’m angry because I’ve been following this issue for ten years, and a bunch of know-nothing pop-culture-absorbing consumers only need to see two episodes of a Netflix show to abandon critical thought.
I know people like me are doomed to lose these skirmishes. The overwhelming power and money are on the side of those who seek to make us ever more rootless, ever more obsessed with identity rather than community, ever more focused on pointing at the other side and shouting “Bigot!” I know silly, selfish, imperfect people have had their heads in the sand on rape culture, and so nonsense articles like this can be written and hailed as “so important.” Hormones fill the water supply and end up in the salmon. Children are bombed in the Middle East, children slave in the coltan mines, men and women die from the factory-emitted pollution around Baotou Lake, all so our decadent urban elites can continue to live highly-unsustainable lifestyles, and also feel righteous over those “cowardly” conservatives.
But at the end of the day, you’re wrong. Not about the bathrooms, or about rape culture. You’re wrong because you’re refusing to see the larger picture, because you’re more interested in virtue signalling than first principles or logical consequences from ideas. You’re wrong because you’re so determined to preen about these issues that you’ll deny any validity on the other side. You’re wrong because you use some people’s false fears about bathroom predators to deny any reasonable skepticism about an ideology which depends solely on feelings. You’re wrong because you care more about being a victim than realizing your culture and society, the one you participate in when you waste time writing screeds like this, are the greatest threat to life on this planet.
Enjoy your moral superiority, but to me, your head is in the sand as much as those you criticize. Maybe it’s time to value forgiveness and mercy, and change ourselves, rather than cling to superiority as the earth and poor sicken from our lifestyle. And the fact that people think this schlock is -brave-? You’re all marching lockstep and managing to think your mutual self-congratulation is somehow courageous! Now I know how the world ends, with a whimpering pat on one’s own back.
This ^ …… So very THIS ^
I’m trans and I agree with this comment.
Well said-and yes you will probably be singled out as a bigot or a hater simply because you are smart enough to see the big picture and try to educate others!
I read this carefully and I feel that the writer is saying something important that I want to understand but I can’t figure it out. Is the writer saying that the original writer is smug and condescending and therefore no better than the people she is chastising? That’s as near as I can figure.
well at least I no longer feel like my replies were novels. You’re going to prove her wrong by bringing up everything else wrong in the world. ok. have fun with that.
Isn’t that exactly what the author set out to do? Prove someone else is wrong by breathlessly clutching her pearls and asking “Where were you?” on other issues?
I set out to say there’s a decadent strain of self-righteous rhetoric which is more focused on pointing fingers than solving problems. And it has become obsessed with navel-gazing, with taking the worst arguments and pretending that’s the only argument being made, and with choosing to name-call or shout down dissent. There is no dialogue. There are only demands. And anyone who questions, not the demand, but the ideology behind the demand, is a bigot.
The above essay was an exercise in shutting down thought, name-calling, sweeping bigger arguments under the rug in the quest to establish one’s righteous, and in explicitly engaging in the exact same behavior the author condemns. Where is she on all the other issues? Where is she on the oppression and abuse that enables her to engage in such Pharisaical behavior?
And I did prove it. Of course my comment wasn’t tweet-sized; I think people who deal in slogans have a lot to hide. Be kind, merciful, and examine our personal motives before recklessly condemning others or perpetuating the cult of victimhood; but also, take the time to suss out the first principles and logical consequences of a philosophy. Cheap tweet-sized comments shut down thought.
Yeah, you’re right. You’re pretty ignorant.
But what would I know, as in your own words, you are as smug and self-righteous in your “knowledge” as the OP, and anyone who disagrees is an empty headed regurgitator of pop-culture. They can’t have POSSIBLY studied or watched or learned as much as you. No way.
You’re right. They haven’t. Arguing about credentials on the internet is a fool’s errand, but I’m confident nonetheless. This is junk. Toxic junk. I’m pretty smug, but at least I know it, and I don’t think it would do any good to keep sitting on the bench, shrugging my shoulders and saying “Aw, gee, they called me an ignorant bigot, I better shut up and listen,” when the argument being made isn’t even an argument. It’s a cheap rhetorical ploy to wind people up and feel self-righteous. It’s the sophistry of the pharisees, and it’s abhorrent. Man, I like love and mercy, and I shut my mouth most of the time and try to pass on by, but these efforts to separate people, turn them against one another, and ignore one’s own flaws get me riled.
I may be smug, but I know I’m a part of the most brutal, unsustainable, destructive civilization ever yet to stride the planet. And at least I have the common decency to care about those tendencies, to work on those things, rather than stick my head in the sand and waste everyone’s time and energy by engaging in moral preening because I can parrot Jezebel’s dime-store emotivism.
Amazing. A perfect response to this tripe of an article.
This entire posts simply reeks with victimization.
Good thoughts. But it leaves out a lot about the culture of those that are suddenly impacted, for lack of a better word. Many of the people you are criticizing are just as appalled at what is happening as you are. We weep when children are molested, women are raped, people are killed. We do help and we do discuss it and we do make changes. We fire pastors who are accused of molesting parishioners. We feed the homeless from our own pockets and volunteer our time and resources to care for the homeless and the sick. We minister to the families who lose children in a tragedy and we pray for justice and speak out against it.
Some are boycotting Target because it is the closest the issue has ever hit home. In one breath we are told to keep our beliefs to ourselves and in another breath we are cursed for our lack of involvement. “Live and Let live,” we’re told. And then, “Where were you?”
We don’t boycott R Kelly because we already don’t buy his ambums. There is no loss there. We may shop at Target so our absence in light of a new policy that directly impacts our families, means we have a choice to make.
Also, not everyone knows of every story, and not everyone can fight for everything.
Where is your outrage at the 250 muslim women killed for refusing to be ISIS sex slaves last week? Where was your outcry and the pastor and his wife who were bulldozed and buried as their church was decimated? Where is your petition for better treatment of prisoners in North Korea? Or for the abuses sufferes
D in the porn industry? Where do you call others to accountability in threatening or assaulting police officers?
You don’t have to respect the beliefs of others. That’s your right. But if you want to question where we are when tragedies happen, consider Compassion International, WorldVision, Samaritan’s Purse, SBC Disaster Relief, Voice of the Martyrs, Rescue Missions, Christian Aid Ministries, MAP International, Sower of Seeds International Ministries (including Red Light Rescue).
Just because you don’t see work being done doesn’t mean it’s not; and just because you don’t hear a voice, doesn’t mean we’re silent.
Thank you, well spoken with several of my own thoughts. And I am a victim with large concerns with the restroom policies and several Of the mentioned situations I know the dangers of this policy and the sexual preditor being given an open opportunity to commit his offenses easily. To the writer of Your Silence is Deafening I hope you are never the victim or your children or grandchildren. I am sure if you had been you would see how much ignorance went into your letter.
You had me up until the cop-bashing. Have you paid any attention to the news of law enforcement being killed on the job? Did you know that, in fact, children’s toy guns look so much like the real thing you can’t tell the difference unless you are actually holding one? Do you know the kind of grief an officer suffers over a bad shooting? No, I don’t believe you do. Every day, my husband straps on a Kevlar vest and hopes today isn’t the day I get the call he’s not coming home.
So yes, while I support most of the other ideals you are supporting here, on that you are horribly uninformed.
Can’t we all just get along? Seriously. In my line of work (for 23 years) I counseled a lot of LGBT folks. None of these people would ever want to pretend they were somebody else just to get a peek at a woman in a bathroom or a child. None of them would wish the path they are on for their worst enemy.The ratio of pedophiles in the transgender or LGBT community is no higher than in the general population. Sexual predators, be they rapists or pedophiles are SEXUAL PREDATORS.They need to be prosecuted and locked up. Most studies have shown that “treatment” for these monsters is ineffective at best, and only teaches the perpetrator how to be more careful to avoid getting caught
This crap that fuels this argument is just that: CRAP.
While the television-watching public is mesmerized by these scandals and false fears, there are atrocities being perpetrated everywhere in this country and world. That is a fact.
We need to WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!! Turn off the television a couple of days a week and read something. Get away from the spell of the idiot tube and give your minds a chance to awaken. When you wake up, get together with others that have awoken. If we all stopped fighting over bs laws and held our legislators accountable (We pay them to represent us!) we might see some change.
Again, Thank you for your post. P
Don’t you people see? Do I have to spell it out?THIS OLD BROAD IS TROLLING US HARD WITH THIS ATTENTION-SEEKING CONTROVERSIAL BULLSHIT POST.
@ Gretchen Kelly
Opinion, Opinion, opinion…
Your proofs are opinions. lol.
And your final thought?…
Is to drag people down for finally having something happen that opened their eyes, and made them react over these atrocities??
…………..
Great idea! Because telling the world about your self righteous hissy fit… will really get people involved to stop these atrocities…Way to go!
I certainly agree that there should be equal rights for everyone, transgender people too! It seems to me there’s always been a struggle with equality, freeing the slaves, woman’s right to vote, coming out of the closet, and now the issue of using a public bathroom regardless of your gender. I believe this all started in NC and sometimes there are biased views on gender orientation! Frankly I’m having a hard enough
time keeping up with all the political crap going on right now in our country, could it possibly be more angry and honestly disgusting???
Hmmm, ~disgusting~
IMO ~ disgusting ~ is allowing the mentally ill to harm society.
…………..
Women are treated, RIGHT now, as if they are nothing more than a mammal (not human…)
…………..
Children are being mentally harmed from their environments being drastically changed.
…………
That (IMO) is truly ~disgusting~…
Every place should just have single occupancy bathrooms. Then there will be no issues just lines. 🙂 Problem Solved
Bathroom for women…. Bathroom for men….. and a unisex bathroom for anyone in between (including those who just want the extra privacy.)
……….
Stops long lines.
Avoids allowing men that are not transgender in the women’s bathroom.
Stops aggressive behavior towards transgender.
………
I keep wondering why ^^ that’s not good enough?
……..
Because any alternative (that I have thought of or read about so far) simply does not have enough good to outweigh the bad that it causes…
honestly, i don think America is completely ready. But if we continue down this road, in twenty years this will all be forgotten.
You’re speaking as if this was something actually of importance…
it is important to some people, especially those with the mental illness.
I’m just sick and tired of homosexuals and whatever they want to call themselves pushing their cramp on us. Very angry person. Won’t change my mind about shopping at target.
Great. You know what, I’m going to go to Target and buy some extra to make up for you. You don’t get it. You are using a computer, with energy being pumped into it because of progressives. Because of people fighting a status quo, reaching into the unknown and challenging assumptions. Many of those people were gay. Do you know about Alan Touring (the father of computing?).
Wait, let me get this right. YOU’RE angry about homosexuals and trans people? Try walking a mile in my shoes. I’m gay and trans. I’m a second class citizen. I don’t have equal rights compared to straight people in America. I can be fired from my job for being gay and trans. I can legally be kicked out of my house for being gay and trans, if my landlord wanted to. In about half the states, I can be physically assaulted for being gay and trans and there is no hate crime law to protect me. You don’t get to be angry. You have access to everything you want in life just handed to you. I DON’T. I’M ANGRY. I’m angry at people like you who claim I’m “pushing my lifestyle on you”. I’ve done no such thing. You don’t make the laws, it’s not up to you. It’s up to the politicians. All I’m asking for is equal treatment under the law and respect, which I get neither of on a daily basis.
As a straight female, 61 y/o – I’d share a public restroom with you any day.
Neither side is expressing their true agenda. Fear and blame run both sides of the debate, and neither are doing anything to solve it.
In this case, it’s just used as a launch pad to express all the other grievances that even loosely relate.
So, you care for men and boys too? Then where are all the statistics for those? You do realize that women can be equally as horrible of human beings? But yet, it comes down to white male rage and entitlement, the failsafe blame target.
Women may not kill as often, but when they do, it’s more often an intimate partner than not. What about these women who use rape as a tool to destroy someone’s life, simply because they can? Do you realize that a the number of homeless men, and teens, outweigh the women by a staggering amount? Sometimes specifically because the laws favor these “unentitled” women? And even cause a vast amount to opt for suicide. These are our fathers, brothers, and sons. So, if you are so concerned with the big picture, where is all the fevered support for them?
Somehow, radical feminism is teaching that women are free from fault, perfect humans, and men as their walking ATM, utilitarian pets. We are human too, ya know. And referring to all of us, in one big stereotype, as rapists in waiting, abusers, and the root of all evil, is doing nothing to solve the issues. Why on Earth would anyone want to support a cause that demeans and belittles us in return, tells us they don’t want us, and then complains when we back off. A no win situation.
Truth is, the only concern about the bathrooms is men. Men in the women’s bathroom. Trans in the mensroom. Kids in the men’s bathroom. That’s what it’s all about, and that’s why there is conflict. Because no one is willing to accept that both sides can be judgemental, violent, spew hate, or sexual predators. Even if we see it every day.
I get your point, but you don’t really know who the Target boycotters really are. Maybe they aren’t voting for these politicians who don’t put their voting behind women’s rights. Maybe they work tirelessly to help women and children caught in the sex slave industry. It doesn’t sound like you really know them and you are making assumptions about them because of one opinion that they have. We need to stop making assumptions about people because of 1 opinion they have.
Ok so I’ve read through a bunch of the comments and this is what I have learned is that humans no matter what gender, age, or sexuality they are can all be that person to do something wrong and no major compromises are being made to equalize the situation and the only real solution I’ve heard of so far is the one comment saying to have three different bathrooms one for non transgender men, one for non trans gender women (Both of which can be used if one does not feel comfortable with transgender people using the same bathroom nothing wrong with it just their opinion based on their experiences), and one for all the people who are transgender or don’t really mind that they are using the same restroom as a transgender person. As for the complaints that were said on how they don’t “speak up” about other problems I have a few comments on it that are purely my opinion (see how i use this word “opinion” not fact). First off people out there do speak up as said previously they just haven’t been heard yet, Secondly one does not have to make a post on their opinion or have a social stand point on a problem to help solve it as said previously there are outlets such as charities to allow them to “speak up” on certain topics that they are passionate about with out having to attack others or push their opinions on to other not so like minded people they just simply help and live happily knowing they had an effect even if in a small way and that maybe the only way they can have an effect due to other circumstances.
Just a final note as to my opinion on the whole movement while yes it’s great you identify yourself as you wish ill respect that just don’t try to force yourself as women/man on to others with a different outlook on life.
You’re only doing what has been done to you two wrongs can’t make a right. take a look at MLK and Gandhi they solved problems not by giving back what they have received but by resisting in a peaceful manner until a compromise had been made
All in all this is just my opinion and my findings by reading what others have said feel free to say what you will of me or even refute me i’d love to hear your retorts and see if my way of living could change to help this pass peacefully.
I apologize for the behavior of the people who assault you. They are not Americans but you know that already. They don’t represent anyone but themselves and consequently their thoughts are irrelevant except in terms of how harmful they can be with cheapshots. I’m sorry. American can do better than they ever will.
I’ve linked your site to my blog. Thanks for what you do.
Your rant is as unreasonable as those who are against the new target policy because prejudice. You’re really going overboard. Where have I been? I’ve watched & protected my kids, just like you. Full time job, wouldn’t
You say? I’ve prayed for abuse victims, fed the homeless, on my own & through soup kitchens. I’ve mentored & worked with foster kids who have, unfortunately been victims to many of the crimes you mention. When I see abuse, I speak up, I do what I can. I love my lesbian cousin to death and want
Her To have all that makes her happy. But wh don’t
I have the right to feel relatively safe in a target restroom? Target is not screening these people to see if they truly do identify as transgender,
So ANY man can go in, without even being stopped, because how could anybody know if they really were? And unfortunately, as for any facts you state about no crimes being committed where such policies exist, opposite facts are also being quoted. Personally, I just want to pee in peace & do what I can to help others, in
Whatever circumstance they may be in in real time, and
spend less time on social media. Your rants
Only polarize people more.
Businesses should provide fully enclosed bathroom stalls for EVERYONE. All of us deserve privacy and respect doing our business. No under and no over. And rapes are most often committed by who we already know.
So much this. All 7 of mine were people I knew, 5 were people I knew well and had invited in my home with my husband and child on multiple occasions. Keep your head in your stall, I’ll keep mine in mine and it won’t matter. Most ‘Bathroom Assaults” on either gender happen in dark, secluded single occupancy bathrooms, like parks and camp grounds, how anyone could think that opening up well lit, very busy public restrooms, with cameras outside the entrance/exit to them would be an “easy” target has watched too much Criminal Minds.
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(oh now the signature shows back up.)
This is good! Excellent even!
oluseyiemdin.WordPress.com
My wish would be that every body could feel safe using a public restroom, no matter what. I think the problem with this is that the 10% of the population that is LGBT and of the 10% of that identifies as Transgender , which makes 1% or less of the whole population are now telling the other 99% that they have to change their way of thinking and feeling. This is what I think is causing the big arguments. And in truth, while it MAY make the Transgender feel like they won one for their side, no one wins as long as no one feels safe while in a public bathroom. There never is more than 1 more person in aNY target bathroom I’ve ever been besides my self anyway, so they should just make 3 or 4 single person bathrooms in target and then everyone will be fine. Also, targets problems right now aren’t just about the bathrooms. The dressing rooms are also now allowing the same things as the bathrooms. The dressing room issue is what more people are worried about as those mostly have doors that don’t lock and or just don’t stay closed very well at all. The dressing room areas seem to me where people would be very self conscious with members of the opposite birth certificate designated sex, especially when children are trying on clothes. I just think that this situation has gotten way more attention than it deserves. We should be worrying about safety for all and not just safety for adults alone, but the children too. That’s why I think that there needs to be single person bathrooms.
Very good letter,,
I’m a concerned woman, I’ve been raped twice, both times living with the shame that yes it was my own fault! I was molested from 8/9 till 15- it only stopped because I was raped an pregnant – no I didn’t have the baby! In 98 it happened again & my husband turned it around on my that he was the victim! Then his demands got worse- he didn’t care! He went from an alcoholic/ drug addicted to a full blown sex addict, never enough- always watched porn! I was his whore- & no longer his wife or partner! The whole thing discusses me,
Thank you for letting a voice be heard! Mine has lived in shame, an beating myself up for far to many years! Afraid to say anything out of fear it would happ-en again! I for one do not use public restrooms out of fear, that little lock is nothing to kick in! My step son was also molested at 3/4 – the one who did it was an older step brother, he had to move out of the house or they would lose custody of the other children in the house- nothing else was ever done!
I was told it was my fault & to this day I have a hard time believing it wasn’t my fault! Feeling very sick & very dirty- no matter how many showers I take- I’m never clean !
Liz Beth
You really need to stop feeling like it’s your fault. You didn’t ask to be raped nor molested, no matter what! You didn’t say please debase me and assault me, I’m not worthy enough to feel loved and respected. There are many many women out there that don’t report being sexually assaulted and because of that, we feel like we deserved it or it was our fault. I was date raped my self and only told my boss and the man who became my husband. I felt dirty and unworthy for a long time until I realized that it was the guys fault and not mine. You deserve to be finally healed. Please, get the gelp/therapy you deserve and need soon!
At no point was this your fault. EVER. I was 2 and my molestation didn’t stop til 13, when I was strong enough to fight back. You are worthy and you need to seek good, safe help to deal with this and learn to love yourself again. I’m still struggling with that whole feeling clean ever again, or even worth loving. I sat my fiance down and gave him the whole of my story and he didn’t run. He wrapped his arms around me and comforted me and sadly whispered “I wish I’d met you sooner, so maybe I could have found you already and stopped some of it from happening.” And I, knowing he loves me, knowing he means every word of it. Still have to fight the fear to runaway to push him away before I soil him too. Because that fear is all women like us ever know for so long that we can’t break the cycle alone. Find someone to help you.
You are so much more than your history.
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At Gastradomus we take these type of issues with seriousness. If you want our insight into this issue check out our article The Bald and The Breastless!
Or maybe I don’t want my five year old girl seeing male parts yet. Or boy seeing girl parts yet. Their young and innocent and, in this world losing Their innocents to fast as it is. Get a grip people.
CLOSED AND LOCKED DOORS ON STALLS. have you ever seen a women’s restroom? We don’t have urinals, no one strips in the middle of the room and runs for the stall. You kids, if they saw genitalia would only be those attached to them. FFS maybe we should do organized tours of “this is how women pee and this is how boys pee, see, there’s a difference.” as an educational tool.
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This is a very simple solution: Don’t allow them to watch others pee. I mean…what?
I am a woman and have been going to the bathroom in public for nearly 40 years, I have never-EVER- seen another person’s private parts in a public bathroom. And, in the case of the men’s room. I am guessing a female to male trans person would go to a stall since they do not have a penis(I’m sorry, boy parts) before surgery to use a urinal.
You’re the kind of person who allows your kids to crawl all over the bathroom floor and look under stalls taking the privacy from others, aren’t you? You’re the real issue here, not some trans person trying to pee in peace.
I hear whining about consequences of actions that were counseled against– business & politics do not mix – at least half, if not more will not share your position & since purchase decisions are emotionally driven, to push an agenda is to alienate at least half your customers immediately. Poor business management & the marketplace is sorting out the losers….. defy natural law at your peril.
Reblogged this on Jaye Em Edgecliff.
Reblogged this on The Perks of Being an Artist and commented:
Can I get an “amen?”
Just reblogged this on https://emilypageart.net/. Well said and amen to that.
I agree with protecting our children. I agree with shopping at progressive stores. We simply need to combine the two and pay a little closer attention when our babes are using these new style restrooms. Soon they will be the norm and nobody will care. I’m not a fan of your writing style however. Lets try focusing on the point next time, yea? You rephrased so much that I honestly nodded off and couldn’t read to the end. *yawn*
Was that last bit necessary? How rude and unbecoming.
You do realize that these people who worry for the safety of their children have been home, parenting? That’s the answer to the where were you question. If we want to stop behavior in adults, the BEST way is to start with children.
These are the people who aren’t standing on a soap box preaching about the injustice, safety, and other issues surrounding rape, they are the most important agents of change as they are raising the next generation. Have you considered the fact that being a victim of sexual abuse can increase the likelihood of that victim growing up to be an abuser, particularly in males? Sorry that they weren’t public enough for you. Shall I make a blog post about being a stay at home mom so I can do what I can to pour into my son values and life lessons that he won’t get from our currently depraved society. I’m not saying everyone of the people whom are boycotting target are mothers, but the large majority of them are probably parents seeing as they are showing concern for children’s safety. And even if they aren’t parents, I appreciate their concern for my child even though they have no personal stake in his upbringing and/or safety.
Furthermore, most people don’t take up an issue until it strikes a cord with them. It has to hit home. They have to be jolted out of their rose colored stupor. When white people joined the civil rights movement, were they turned away because they were late to the party? Absolutely not. I believe that if this issue did not surround gender identity but rather a less polarizing topic you wouldn’t have taken such offense.
I haven’t boycotted Target. Heck, they’re the best store for me to buy our Honest Company Diapers because my son simply walking around without a cute print on his bum is not an option. Plus, they have giant packs of Mamba for $1 (winning). However, I take issue with this because it ignores those of us who aren’t in support of a bathroom free for all because of our children. Sorry that our active parenting offends you. I would rather my son and anyone else’s child not have to experience any form of perversion than bend to this new definition of gender equality. I say perversion because anyone who does not think a predator would take that opportunity is deluding themselves for the sake of political correctness.
I also take issue with this post because I’m actually raising a black son. Though he isn’t yet 2, I know more than anyone the injustices directed towards black boys and men. The rejection that, even at 1 years old, my son has already experienced due to the color of his skin. So maybe I didn’t scream off the rooftops and jump on WordPress, Twitter and other platforms to express my indignation but that isn’t to say that the topic doesn’t hit home for me.
So forgive me if I don’t jump on the band wagon or join in the slow clap. Well written post nonetheless but, clearly, I disagree.
I feel like I’ve been trolled by this entire post. Are we talking about gender identity? Target? Racial injustice? Sex crimes? If you were trolling the entire WordPress community, congrats. Most effective troll ever.
You read my mind there, the author uncovered herself as a big time attention seeking troll with this “TARGETless” post.
Wait, I didn’t mean to like that. You’re just another asshole trying to get away with it because you’re a Christian and you get to say things like this out of your “righteous anger”.
I’m overwhelmed by your eloquence.
Right back at you, dear. Now go tell someone about your loving God whilst you rant about “perversion”. Ugh.
Sorry I didn’t realize it was now offensive to call pedophiles perverse.
But that is the issue: this isn’t a “free for all”. This is allowing those who identify as women to use the ladies room. You would have NO IDEA if a trans woman walked into the bathroom with you. It isn’t bugs bunny in a wig for crissakes. And again this rule has ALWAYS been in place. Always. We are just hearing about this because of the legislation trying to be passed.
People such as yourself are so wrapped up in your own issues and fear you don’t see the bigger picture. Do you really and think that predators are going to be like “OH! I can dress like a woman and enter a bathroom and assault people now! YES!” Because in all these years a man has never attacked, assaulted or molested someone while hiding in a bathroom.
Not to mention, what about our boys? Are they not also worth keeping safe. After all, it would be a female to male trans in the men’s room and I highly doubt they would be a predator.
Who is being delusional now?
If you check the Discover section there is another post on this subject by a woman who is genderqueer (her words). She is biologically a woman and wants to stay that way but dresses in a way that leads people to question her entrance into the ladies’ room. She says herself that she knows of people who have been stopped and she has been stopped before entering into the ladies room. This is relevant to my point because it is against social norms for a man to enter a ladies’ room and a woman to enter the men’s room so it raises a red flag when it’s done, even if the flag raiser is in error.
With this change, it will cause people not to question which allows predators even more access. I believe these attacks would increase as a result. You’re blinded by the subject matter rather than the obvious hurdles this creates for parents. The issue isn’t if the individual is trans, the issue is if they are not.
I’m sorry that you view parenting as an issue or a fear. I haven’t ever been victimized by sexual predators but I still know they exist. I’m overwhelmed by your sensitivity. It is a good thing I hadn’t been abused sexually because your one mindedness could have really been devastating to my healing. It’s odd that you would approach the subject so recklessly considering what is being discussed in this actual post. I have, however, done some mentoring and I would say 80% of the teens I mentored had experienced some form of sexual abuse. It is a major issue any parent would be negligent to not safeguard his/her child(ren) from this very real threat.
Furthermore, the author was asking where those parents were, I’m telling her. Many of them are raising children hopefully in a way that would work towards eradicating the issues she addresses in future generations.
And yes, our boys do need to be kept safe. If you reread my post I specifically said I have a son and I specifically mentioned boys as victims. Boys go into public restrooms as well. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here? Young boys are taken into the ladies room with their moms and the men’s room with their dads. Men are probably a little less likely to take their daughters into the men’s room though. I’m not sure on that.
I can’t begin to guess what goes through the minds of the perverse, seeing as I’m not. I guess I better not provide any protection, guidance, parenting, discipline, or anything to my son? Shall I let him walk around outside whilst I take a nap then? Nothing to fear right? It’s not fear, it’s PARENTING. If I am nothing else in this lifetime, I am a diligent parent. If that qualifies me as delusional in your eyes, I wear the label with pride.
Good lord, the amount of speculation that you’ve inserted here is almost incredulous. It’s like all of the hysteria that gay marriage would “ruin” the sanctity of straight marriage and here we are years later and no, nothing’s happening, straight Christians are enjoying the same amount of divorce rate they did prior to gay marriage and shattering their families and children just fine on their own. Of course nothing from the Christians on that, you’re all just on to the next topic. Your speculation that somehow, transgendered human beings using the right gendered restrooms will increase the potential of abuse is vile. It is simply vile. No wonder people are leaving the church in droves.
Wow, I loved your writing and your point. I think the safety of children is being threw aside by someone feeling like they can get a little self gatification getting to go into the bathroom on the sex they are longing to be.
Love it! Love everything about it! You have made so many good points in your post, and I just want to take the time to share that with you! You have raised some good points that I have never thought of before, but you are right on the money!!
Agreed, except, where are any of you??
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05/girl-caught-man-recording-her-in-target-changing-room-frisco-police-say.html/
No. This is not about fear of attack, and making attack the issue is an ugly tactic to delegitimize other valid concerns and the fact that my civil rights should not be violated to implement a progressive usurping of morality. The fact that the majority of people who are discussing this are saying, “Bravo” and “Kumbaya” is thoroughly disheartening – and terrifying. Stop saying that your rights to trample on American law and constitution are permissible because your fighting a ‘righteous’ cause. I don’t want to share a bathroom with a man. PERIOD. And the solution is simpler and more fair than imposing your self righteous, condescending and tyrannical judgement upon an America which you have deemed too conservative, slander with “Republican’ as if slapping this monicker on any individual or situation deems it dirty and unholy: Make a selection of bathrooms transgender. Therefore anyone can go in to those bathrooms. We can call them COED just like they used to be called, just as the term would still encompass any choice, and those who wish to use a bathroom designated for their gender would still have THAT RIGHT to do so. Don’t take away my rights because you’re a self righteous monster imposing your judgment and choices on me as you accuse me of being “Old Fashioned” or “Conservative” or “Republican.” In any building there can be offered a COED bathroom and the fact that this has not been the case is simply indicative of the Liberal Asses which have become the Big Brother, the Thought Police. The Left has become a bigger monster than the one they’ve been fighting these many decades. And that has torn apart our society.
We have to ask why are they not asking for a restroom of their own??? All I can come up with is these people want to be the other gender so badly that I feel if they can get the privilege to come into our restroom somehow they will feel Mich more a man or woman. That’s not the case . noatter how hard you try your always going to look as you are .
We have to ask why are they not asking for a restroom of their own??? All I can come up with is these people want to be the other gender so badly that they feel if they can get the privilege to come into that restroom somehow they will feel much more a man or woman. That’s not the case . Nomatter how hard you try your always going to look as you are .
Except it’s not a man you’re sharing the bathroom with, dear. It’s a woman.
I didn’t read the whole thing. I’ve been there the whole time. Rape and abuse are things that I understand on a fundamental level, because I’m still working my way through the healing process from both. My daughter was even stillborn at 30 weeks because of physical abuse.
I would never deny someone the right to use the bathroom wherever they’re most comfortable, but why is it that when I say I want to use a single-occupant bathroom because of my own demons, that makes me a bigot? My situation involved other men and women, so the thought of using the bathroom with anyone else is frightening to me.
There is far too much hate being flung around. I am not against anyone doing whatever it is that makes them feel safe and comfortable, so why can’t the same compassion be extended toward me?
Excellent post!
Thanks for voicing this. I agree. Four days after writing this, a young Navajo girl was kidnapped, molested and killed. If you find the original news articles before they found her body, people’s biggest concern was being woken up by the Amber Alert. Funny how much concern is shown over actual bad things happening, versus concern shown over perceived differences and risk.
Very good post
I made it as far as “Where have you been?”. Which, honestly, is further than I thought I’d make it to.
Where have I been? Dealing with more important things like…well, just about ANYTHING under the sun, that’s where. Stop trying to recruit me for your quest to find a solution to a 27th tier problem that doesn’t really exist in a meaningful capacity.
Love this….
Reblogged this on Random musings from an insane mind and commented:
This may be the best thing ever written.
I think most people woman are uncomfortable taking a crap with a man in the restroom. If you were born a man your a man it may suck ,but it is true. Although , we don’t have very many morals left as a country there is still a tiny bit and I’m sure those are slowly going out the window . I am so so sick of hearing all this hate bull if you don’t go along with everything they call it hate….that is crazy. It seems to me the only hate is the other side of the issues..
As a female, I would rather share a public restroom with a transgender female than with any of the hate-filled, fear-mongering bigots out there. Just sayin’
Pretty sure your gay. Why are you calling people names and saying they are full of hate?!!…WOW.. I keep wondering am I the only person left on planet earth?
Nah honey, I’m straight and have four adult children to prove it. I call it as I see it, and if you look up the words I used in any dictionary you will find them apt descriptions of those who are against these folks using the bathroom THEY feel comfortable with. “Hate-filled” and “fear-mongering” are descriptions, NOT names. As for bigots – Merriam-Webster – Definition of bigot. : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. I rest my case.
I’ll tell you why this is great, because above this comment are multiple opinions that might not have expressed in the same way without first reading yours.
It takes a strong mind to write about these things. I’m not just talking about coming up with the words to convey the thought, but knowing and accepting that there will be any feedback, good or bad, and dealing with it the way you did.
Well done.
-Ryan
This blog post spoke to my soul, I have no words to express my feelings towards this beautiful masterpiece.
Thank you so much. <3
The following is what I posted on yet another thread that points the pedophile finger at the transgendered community.
I will speak for my self and my group of friends that have survived molestation – not one of us was accosted by a stranger in a public restroom. Does it happen to women – yes! Is that horrible yes. However, the extremely vast number of pedophiles are people in our lives that we trust. Fathers, stepfather, uncles, stepbrothers, beloved neighbor, pastor, priest, boy scout leader, need I go on? If a pedophile is going to dress up as a woman to get into a public restroom – HE WAS ALREADY DOING IT! This is not a transgendered issue but an issue of the safety of our most vulnerable. Lets enact laws that actually punish the pedophile, how about laws that protect the small number of children that come forward? I don’t see anyone addressing this issue. It isn’t about liberal/conservative or somewhere in between, it is about punishing the ones that are committing the crimes and lets not vilify and entire section of people for the crimes they have not committed.
Unfriend me if you must but lets look at the real issue, pedophiles don’t get punished at the level they should. Let’s fix that!
I totally agree and I loved your writing. How do you read all these comments and not just want to hit your head against a wall?
Julie, your comment is epic and perfect. Thank you. And I didn’t read all of the comments. I had to ignore them at times to keep my sanity. And yes, there was a lot of banging the head on the desk this week. BUT, there were so many amazing comments and messages here and on FaceBook. I have been repeating to myself that the angry are always louder than the peaceful and loving and accepting.
Julie’s perspective, as well as your own are duly noted and respected. However to refer to her post as being anything resembling “peaceful and loving and accepting” is hugely erroneous. It was just the opposite; a self righteous, accusing, shaming, insulting, chastising projection to everyone but herself. It takes maturity to accept that others who see things differently than you, are not necessarily wrong or unaware, and to learn how to navigate through ones feelings and communicate intelligently and without insult. Headbanging, sighs, and eyerolll innuendos indicate nothing more than ignorance and immaturity.
Caroline, she and I were referring to the many racist and bigoted anti-LGBT comments on here. Not with the comments of those who disagree with what I wrote. Believe me, I write about many controversial issues and I have no problem with people disagreeing. I may debate them and counter their points, but I am under no illusion that everyone will agree with me. If I had an issue with dissenters, I certainly couldn’t blog. There are people on here saying that LGBT people are freaks and mentally ill and deranged. There have been a number that have treaded into racism. Those are the comments we’re referring to. It’s disheartening to see so many people still harbor hatred for others simply for being different from themselves. Headbanging, and sighing are ways we (many bloggers) add effect to our words. If I say “sigh” it’s likely because I’ve had to repeat a statement over and over. Or because someone is directly contradicting or misrepresenting something I wrote or said. As to my post, “cherry picked morals” refer to people who are anti-LGBT based on moral beliefs. The link in red goes into more detail about that statement. Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way, but I can’t abide by or respect beliefs that condemn a group of people for simply being who they were born to be. This, as most blog posts, is an opinion piece. Yes, I was fiery and angry. I think I explained pretty clearly why, but to be very clear, I’m angry that huge masses of people are being swayed by misinformation by the AFA (deemed a hate group by the Southern Poverty and Law Center) that has a political agenda. I’m angry that the problem is that we let sex offenders off too easy and THAT is what puts people in danger, not a policy at Target that’s been in place for years.
Yes I can better see where you’re coming from. By the way, as a point of interest, there are many of us (referring to myself) who are not being influenced by the AFA, or other ill informed sources, yet simply of our own free thinking will, our personal beliefs, choose to hold ideals that may differ from yours. And it flows from our love of Heavenly Father and striving to be obedient to him, not from being misinformed, ignorant, or unaware. This may be what you are deeming “cherry picked morals” (not sure what you mean exactly). I am a Christian and seek to live humbly, with love and kindness for all. I also seek to abide by the guidance of my Father in Heaven as best I can in this mortal journey, and in my imperfect state because I find I’m happier when I do. I want to acknowledge there are extremists out there full of hate who profess to love and serve God while they abuse, harm and punish those whom “they judge” as not following God’s law. This is most unfortunate because charity is actually the greatest law of our Father, and the greatest gift we can receive from Him. Christians who truly strive to live what they profess to believe should not be clumped in with extremists who simply do their own evil under the guise of Christianity. It’s important to differentiate and understand the difference. True Christians strive to navigate through these moral dilemmas by being obedient to our Father in Heaven, while showing love to their fellow man. True Christians have morals and ideals that flow directly from their personal relationships with our Father in Heaven, not from the AFA, FRC, or “cherry picked morals”. Ypu are either gifted or crazy to have an opinion blog. Hate mongering and grappling for opinions to be changed, often becomes a forum of interacting in a field of dysfunction , bearing little ability to influence for good. Everyone wants a platform to be heard, while many aren’t seeking to learn. Good luck in your cause if it serves God. I thank you for your thoughtful reply.
what a wonderful job you did,, Brava!!!!
I have been complaining and fighting all the other violence against women, too. Women are assaulted everyday and it’s a big problem. Don’t judge everyone that you disagree with, and don’t misrepresent their concerns.
But it’s interesting that you mention looking out for homeless women and children because right after the city of Toronto passed an access law that allowed men to self-identify as women, a man, Christopher Hambrook used that law to stay on the women’s side of the homeless shelter. Right from the day he said he was a woman and needed to be on the women’s side he was peeping through the cracks on the showers and looking at women as they undressed. Eventually, he assaulted two women staying in the shelter, one of whom was handicapped. Are you looking out for these women?
You have decided for you what isn’t a concern, and I am an intelligent, informed woman and I have decided that these access laws are a breach of women’s security and privacy. That’s an opinion I will hold and your judging and name calling won’t shut me up. And I follow and concern myself with most of those women’s issues you covered. Don’t judge.
Sigh… I will say it again. I am not singling *you* out. There is a thing called the collective “you.” I am simply saying that this huge swell of hysteria is a head scratcher when real violence has been happening to women and children all this time. By the way, this has been Target’s policy all along. They just restated it in light of the oppressive and discriminatory laws being passed in places like N.C. These stores (and many many others) have had these pro-transgender policies, as well as 12 other states. For years, they’ve had these laws. No issues. No increases in danger or assault. Those are FACTS. You can look them up or click on one of the links in my article. By the way, I have not called anyone names. Not my style.
So you’re not judging me personally. You’re judging all the people who have opinions like me, got it.
The “hysteria” is that the powers that be are saying the new normal is to not allow privacy in locker rooms and bathrooms. That new normal will say that my daughter will have to compete with biologically male competitors on her sports teams, which is demonstrably not fair. Obviously, Target isn’t the worst place, but it’s the only place we can show displeasure. There’s no way to boycott the IL Supreme Court when they have mandated the HS take away the privacy curtain that the physiological boy was using when he changed in the girls’ locker room (rendering it unusable for many teen girls). When is enough enough?
And when you say there have been no increases in danger or assault that’s not quite true. The Toronto incident happened right after the access law was passed and there are dozens more incidents. Not to mention Target itself has had quite a few peeping and videotaping incidents in their stores, yet even with those issues has to announce to any man interested that they will be able to spend time in the women’s restroom if they want. This policy just gives time and opportunity to those that want to find the right target to videotape or barge in on. Don’t take away my right to call the police when I see a man in the ladies room.
And I realize that you don’t think you have called anyone names, but if you can look at the article objectively you have said– “People who don’t agree with me about fighting against the Target boycott also are not willing to fight about or care about other women’s issues where women get hurt.” That’s an ad hominem stereotype and you have no statistical evidence to support it, so, like I said, you are judging a whole group of people based on NO evidence.
I’m not judging you. I don’t look down on anyone who has a differing opinion. I don’t think I’m always right about things. The WHOLE point I was trying to make (which it seems like thousands upon thousands of people understood) was that the Target bathroom is not the problem. Target has ALWAYS had this policy. They just restated it in light of the NC bill. Every time you have used a Target restroom this policy was there already. As well as in many other places. And schools and public buildings (check out the Civil Rights Act) And as for my “calling names”… again… I am questioning an outcry of a million people. Over a policy that’s been in place for years. They have every right to protest and boycott. I have every right to call it into question. And if you think that LGBT people are “less than” or sick or deranged then, yes, I don’t have to respect your beliefs. (Those red words are hyper links. You can click on them and see more details. Including my article about not needing to respect beliefs that involve bigotry and discrimination.)
I responded to those issues. But you are pretending that you didn’t claim (in the initial blog post) to know that based on our opposition to Target allowing men into the bathroom– by that one issue– you know that we have ignored and not concerned ourselves with any other women’s health and security issue. That is false and that is judging and stereotyping.
Fear of trans individuals in restrooms is grounded in false and stereotyping logic, so im not quite so sure you understand hypocrisy as well as you believe to.
This is not an issue of semantics.
What iI do not understand is why you assume that the “haters” are all religous! I see a generation of people who really dislike and yes are prejudist against all Christians…you blame any contradictions of your feelings on “Christians”. Not all Christians are bigoted people! But I see a group of tolerent people, that are the most intolerant people that I know. I live my life the way that I feel is right, and others may live their life another way…I don’t agree with it, but that is my right, as it is theirs! But where do we draw the line? If a 6ft 200lb young man identifies as a young woman, and applies for a woman’s scholarship…is that fair. Please don’t hate me, because I do not have not issue with that person, I am just asking? There are some cases when “right” and “wrong” are not the issue. If 98% of a group are against something and 2% are for it, what is the answer? If we all were as tolerant as we say we are, maybe we could work it out.
Who said anything about haters, religion, or Christianity? Your comment is the first I’ve seen those words mentioned here. Confised.
And somewhere something bad happened to somebody, sometime…but what is more likely? A piece of space junk falls, should we never go outside because it might happen again? Somebody drives a car without their seat belt fastened and isn’t hurt badly in their car crash. Does that make it reasonable to NOT wear you seat belt in a moving car? Somebody carries a loaded gun into an elementary school and nobody gets shot. Does that mean its safe…a good idea? All of us have to calculate on our own what is good, what is bad, what is dangerous, what doesn’t matter that much, yes each of us has to do that. In the end deciding and acting on what is the least dangerous, least painful and choosing what we determine causes the least harm is the best we can do.
Who ever, not long ago, thought letting your child visit a priest (are you now afraid of all priests) or the Speaker of the House (are you now afraid of all older white guys in a suit?) could be in the least dangerous or harmful? Who ever thought they would hear a national presidential candidate disparage women, repeatedly in public for all to hear…and then be lauded for that behavior? Odd that you a person would find one single incident out of thousands of similar incidents and from that one aberration decide that all such incidents would be a danger. Fear is a powerful motivator and logic has little of any sway in the thinking or the conclusions. That’s why dictators, political operatives and scam artists use it as their rallying cry more often than any other.
anniebwanny…
…so these bigoted laws force people that were born male to always use a “men’s bathroom,” and those born female to use “women’s bathrooms,” even if they have transitioned outwardly…
…all to prevent your scenario of a male going into the bathroom and saying he is transitioning to female and peeping…
…so what are you going to do now that hateful laws like the one in N.C. will now allow a man to go into a woman’s restroom and say he has to be there because he lies and says he was born female?
These laws don’t fix anything and don’t protect anyone. You are living in an alternate reality if you really believe they do, beyond the fact that bathrooms are not where predators go to prey on victims, namely because they are usually someone you know.
Ok, here’s something to think about. You are worried about this stuff happening in the women’s bathroom. The only thing this changes really, is the fact that it could POTENTIALLY happen to both boys and girls. Nobody hollers or even thinks about the fact that these things you are so worried about happening in the women’s bathroom could very well already be happening in the men’s bathroom. These same rapists and such you are so worried about going after women and girls could very well already be happening to men and boys. You don’t have to use public restrooms, or better get, find the ones that only allow one person at a time. The people in the LGBT community ARE STILL PEOPLE! Would you like people to discrinate against you because you are different? I live in NC and am very disappointed in the state government for passing HB2. Not only did it cause this whole bathroom drama, but what most people.do not know is that it took away people’s right to file suit in the state courts when it comes to discrimination. And that doesn’t just apply to the LGBT community, but everyone in the state! Please before you go supporting some idiotic thing like HB2, read the whole thing!
If someone wants to peep at or assault someone else, they will find a way to do so regardless of any access laws. Boycotting Target isn’t going to change that. Instead of Boycotting the laws, I strongly encourage these people to petition for harsher punishment for those who peep and assault. Let’s not punish the victims but punish the abusers!
she is just giving her opinion, how she sees things, everyone sees things differently, I think and I could be wrong are just looking for someone to argue with. These are her words, her opinion, Got it?
While you justify and mollify your clearly shaming accusations by saying that “you” is being used collectively, keep in mind that it is also being received collectively, in a personal way. An accusing rant re: your original post, makes you personally appear to be an angry, self righteous individual, who sees everyone else as negligent (with their “cherry picked morals”) and perceptionally inferior to your personal vast awareness and wisdom. “Sighing” and “eyerolll” type of innuendos make you appear immature, unwise, and as a petulent child. None of which garner respect for your opinion or influence. You have no idea what “everyone” thinks, feels, nor has done in the areas you accuse of negligence. Because the most common sexual offender is someone close (family member, friend, etc) does not negate the concern of this complex issue regarding the safety of women and children, and the privacy and sanctity of a woman’s restroom, while trying to assist the needs of a transgenger. Everyone’s needs should be respected. We know that unisex bathrooms has been a topic for sometime now, which I am opposed to. I personally think this current issue will inevitably lead us in the direction of unisex bathrooms, simply because there is no legal way to verify transgender from straight. The aggressive response to Target indicates the opportunity people have to finally make their voice be heard, to make known that the majority of people, both male and female genders, do not want males sharing women’s facilities. Your differing opinion does not make you more wise and experienced, and therefore “everyone” else less informed or aware. The vocal, pushy minority can steam roll over the majority for a time, until the majority says “enough”.
While yes that was terrible. That said how many thousands of customers hetero pedophiles breach safe space every day.
It’s a sad state when women shelters have security fencing and lock down to keep out the abusive partner of their relationships.
See. None of this acutely affects me. But it affect those like me.
Where is your want for sex offenders and pedophiles to not be allowed access to public restrooms??
Extend your thinking and then by association clergy, and males by statistic should not share bathrooms with boy because there may be a predator among them.
I am trans and in a relationship with a great guy. So no I’m not checking out the other ladies or women in the restroom. However I can tell you you share it with Lesbian that are attracted to the same sex.
And what is you solution if one day my partner see fit to beat me and put me in fear for my life. Would you turn me away from that women’s shelter? Am I less human than you?
That is MY point. When I go into a bathroom and see a man in makeup how do I know the genuine trans from the sex offender? How? There is a genuine difference in strength between men and women and sexual assaults are at epic levels, 9 of 10 assaults directed at women. So until you develop a portable psychologist that I can carry to the bathroom to find out who really is trans and who is the sex offender I will prefer to keep all biological males out of my bathroom. You have the option of using the single user/family bathroom if you would like, but I have never seen a report of an assault on a trans person that using their preferred bathroom would have stopped.
If you are trying to be a woman, you need to understand the reality of security and privacy that women face every day.
So you will also keep your (hypothetical or actual) biologically male children out of the women’s room, right?
I mean, when they get to be like 3 and 4 and know the difference between what we classify as male and female parts, they should no longer be in the same bathroom as those of a different gender, right? I’ve been in bathrooms where 4 year old boys have peaked under the stall to look at me while they were in the bathroom and I felt violated.
Approximately 4/5 of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim. And 82% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger. Dismantling rape culture will do much more to protect you then worrying about the person who’s trying to pee in the closed stall next to you. Also, not all men are attracted to women in the first place.
I don’t get the act of having your gender altered anyway but for those that have they are committed to being what their appearance is. I find it ridiculous but I can see why they would want to use the restroom with the gender they have chosen. For people who use this to peep, rape or whatever is objectionable they are not transgender; they are perverts and should be prosecuted as such. If you find that as disgusting as I do then be logical about it. Transgender, what the Hell; perverts put them in prison or kill him. Personally I prefer the latter.
When I walk into the restroom and see a man in a dress there, I can’t tell which they are. Can you? The access to anyone is the problem. Let’s be honest here, if someone was really committed and had done treatments I wouldn’t have any idea they were a man. In fact, in most states, including NC, once the surgery is done they can legally change their BC. So it isn’t really an issue of transgenders, it’s men with penises and telling all of them, including the 100’s of thousands of sex offenders, “Come on into the women’s restroom, they can’t kick you out!”
What’s a little perplexing is that somehow, you think that just because “anyone” will be allowed in, that somehow this will get worse. Did every public bathroom install blood test scanners when I wasn’t looking? Open door policy -is in effect right now-. If you see a man in a dress in a women’s restroom, you know what you do if you feel unsettled? Keep an eye on the person. If they’re washing their hands and leaving, then let them do whatever they want. When they start to do things that are questionable? Report them, throw them out, call the police. Because at the end of the day, a “man” in a women’s restroom isn’t something worth ire. It’s a man in a women’s restroom (or a man in a man’s or a woman in a woman’s or a woman in a man’s) doing illegal things that’s worth your ire. It’s indecency and immorality and illegal acts done on each other that’s worth your ire. If you want to protect the bathroom, then do it, be my guest. If you want to play hall monitor and have everyone pinky swear that they’re only doing number 1 or 2 in there, then that’s your prerogative. But you better get on it now, because the state that you’re so afraid of is in effect as we speak.
So I wait to see if he kicks open the flimsy stall door while I’m in there. I guess I’ll know then. Gotcha. I’d prefer to just send the message that none can be in there so I can call the cops, and I’d prefer not to give predators open access for more casing and opportunity. But if sitting there waiting for an assault (when dozens of assaults, peeping and videotaping have occurred before) is the price I pay for being as good as you people I guess I will just shut up and take it.
soooo you seriously think you have not already used the same restroom as a transgender already? I’m willing to bet they didn’t kick your stall door in. Also, do you ask people what they are peeing from in the bathroom? Person beside me could have a penis and I’ll never know. Why? Because I don’t look. I don’t ask. I don’t care. Someone who wants to take advantage of this will do so without the law…
I realize that. No one cares if a transgender person is in there that looks just like a woman, but I want to be able to kick out an obvious man, because it’s a security issue. Do you realize that there are 100’s of thousands of registered sex offenders in this country that are looking for opportunities to find women (9 in 10 rapes) alone and in isolated places. Hello, that’s what a bathroom is. And contrary to what this writer asserts, assaults, peeping and videotaping have already occurred, it is irresponsible to open bathrooms to even more issues.
Toronto? Isn’t that in Canada? Did Canada become the 51st state in the United States of America?
You do not realize then that Trans Men look like, men and that if they are required by law to use the women’s bathroom, then any man could walk into a women’s restroom.
Who in the world has told you to “shut up”? Nobody, the hysteria and victimization of those of you who are getting *reacted to* as you claim you’re being “shut up” is really incredulous.
Bravo!
Reblogged this on Stone Spiral Creations and commented:
I rarely reblog, but this is well worth the read.
You probably also think that the pharmaceutical companies who pay for multi million dollar studies to say their drugs are “perfectly safe” are really truly safe, too. You probably think the homeless people who are the loudest, the drunkest, and shoot up the most drugs are just actors hired by building developers – right? What will the weather be like on your planet?
Ummm… ok.
Tom, everything has a risk, even consuming food poses a risk. As for the drugs, I will gladly keep paying, and taking, my medication (including my seizure medication) to prevent possibly fatal outcomes that would occur without said medication.
While we’re discussing debatable opinions you have, we’ll cover the homeless population next. Homeless people are not the loudest, drunkest and most drugged people. I’ve seen more housed people that are stoned off their ass that they can’t even speak a complete sentence, some that drink every night and repeatedly beat their spouses and children. Your statement is reeking of judgement and bullshit.
As for trans-safe bathrooms. What planet have you been living on? Men are not the only people capable of sexual assault. There are just as many, just as violent, female sexual predators. But, no one wants to think about that, nor acknowledge that fact.
Trans people are not the scum of the earth that people think they are. Men, and women, that want to assault someone will assault someone, regardless of policy. Just because you say no, doesn’t mean they’re going to listen.
I’m not a mother, and I’m a very strong woman, so while I felt no threat (and infact only felt sheer joy for the equality for my trans peers) I 100% understand the concern of children and other woman who don’t carry around pepperspray. It is so refreshing to hear the point of view of a mother, and all parents who shoulder concern should take equal precaution as you.
A victim of sexual assault, it enrages me how people allow, and have turned numb, to the injustices that surround the female body just because it doesn’t directly effect them (or so they think). But as soon as a corporation steps out of the status quo everyone loses their shit.
Thank you for your words & your research. This is by far one of the most powerful pieces I’ve read.
Thank you so much Melissa. I think a lot of us who have survived sexual assualt/abuse or rape are really disgusted that groups like the AFA (American Family Association) is hyping this up. And that people are so willingly buying into it. Especially given that this is not a new policy. The AFA just saw an opportunity and seized it.
Awesome, Gretchen. Thanks for this.
Thought provoking and well written. Thank you for this.
I, too, am a mother, a strong woman, and a rape survivor. I have terrifying thoughts of what the world will be like when my child is an adult. But I have never thought for even a moment that he was in danger by using a public restroom that a transgender or other LGBT person may also be using. This is a community of people who have been ostracized for so long from the main stream. It’s time to stop the exclusion of human beings based on unfounded fear. I thought we were heading in that direction, that inclusion was the mantra of the new generation. I was so very wrong.
I grew up in an LGBT household — my parents (both women) hid their relationship out of fear of retribution or acts of hatred by those who simply didn’t understand. They have been together for more than 33 years. I applauded the progress our country was making with regard to equality, and then this happened.
I’m saddened by the direction our country is heading. It would be so easy to continue moving through my every day life and not concern myself with the injustices that are occurring EVERY. SINGLE. DAY because it doesn’t directly effect my life. There are so many things wrong with these new laws being passed. We are re-entering an age where discrimination is legal, applauded and encouraged. Why? Why are *you* so afraid of LGBT people? After all, they are just people, right? What difference does it make to *YOU* which bathroom they use, which gender they identify with, who they lay next to at night? Does this directly affect *YOU*? Of course not. Unless you are looking through the windows, or underneath the stall door, you would have NO IDEA what is happening. And if you are looking…doesn’t that make *YOU* the violator? The peeping tom? The pedophile? Why is it okay for you to question someone about their sexual identity? What makes that your business? There is no good answer to these questions.
Thank you for writing such a poignant article. Thank you for bringing to light the blatant inequality, fear based logic, misinformation, and apathy. All of these things should be in the forefront of every mind and heart.
There have been quite a few instances of men peeping in changing rooms and videotaping under stalls in Target already, but now I’m the bad guy because I say it’s a problem?
Surprise! Those people who did that? They were gonna do it whether there was a fancy new law that let them or not.
Same thing as saying ‘we should outlaw guns!’ People who are gonna do illegal shit with guns aren’t going to care that they’re outlawed. They’re going to keep on doing.
And that was occurring with or without a law. Which is the point.
Thank you Melissa. I thought we were headed in the right direction too. This has all been disheartening. Some of the comments here, the things some people are saying about LGBT is truly awful and sad and disturbing. I do, however, think that MOST of us are moving towards inclusion. I think most of us are nonjudgmental. It’s just the worst of us are the loudest. I have to remind myself of that all the time. I see some huge changes though. My daughter (middle school) has a friend who is openly gay. And all of the other kids aren’t even phased by it. It makes me grateful for the brave men and women who were “out” before and paved the way for this kid. And I think he must be incredibly brave, even now, to have the courage to be who he truly is. So much of the anti-LGBT rhetoric is based in fear and ignorance.
Very well said!!
very well written!
The “fear mongering” are from people like you who has corrupted the definition of “bigot’ to manipulate the legal system to form your own anarchy in order to attempt genocide against the Aryan race!! History is repeated itself.
You are a disgusting excuse for a human being.
All are important issues
Including the fear of being raped in a unisex bathroom.
It is a legitimate fear.
I won’t go to Target.
Target has had this policy for years. As well as Starbucks and Barnes and Noble. And Walmart is staying mum on this which kind of makes me think they have the same policies or are just not taking an official stand either way. They did enact a pro-transgender employee policy. Pro trans bathroom laws have been enacted in 17 states and 225 cities with no incidences of the law being used or taken advantage of to harm women or children. <<That is based on statements by law enforcement and civil and human rights groups in those places.
Maybe Target should have kept quiet, then. They want brownie points for being on the tolerant side of a controversial issue; they take the bad with the good. It’s not true that there have been no incidents. Here’s a list of some incidents and I just saw another not on the list in my paper the other day. http://nounequalrights.com/information/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/The-Threat-to-Women-and-Girls-Illustrated-1.pdf
Almost all of those have been proven to be untrue.
Yes, Walmart has a trans inclusive policy… I know, I work for Walmart as Asset Protection (security) and I am transgender. The policy went into effect in 2014, while they’re anti-discrimination policy was updated to include Gender Identity and Gender Presentation in 2012. The policy is more specific to Associates than Customers, but does cover customers and vendors. As for the bathroom question, the policy allows for the use of the restroom that accords with an individual’s identity and presentation. So yes, Wal-Mart is staying quiet, but has been trans-inclusive (at least on the corporate and policy level) for years now.
Um, beg to differ with this person who claims these stories were false. Did she talk to the police? the victims? I don’t think so! I’ve been raped in a bathroom, no one to defend me. I know very well how perverts think and if there’s an open door policy. It’s more inviting to them. This article is a laugh at, because it’s CLEAR This person has not been in another’s shoes to truly understand, but attack those who have. This is no closure to victims and their families who felt that it was safer in public bathrooms. Mine was in a school… I don’t want to have to worry more about perverts in restaurants, stores, locker rooms, etc. Because of this “change”… I had a guy stalk me in a Cracker Barrel… Thankfully he was not allowed in the restroom where I went to hide away (literally), until I was called and I had to sort of sneak to my table to finally eat in peace. I’ve had these men after me, before I married one that’s not like majority of the others that I’ve met…
I will admit through using a fake name here…. that I know about the movie Ted. I met a screenwriter – I’ll just say that I know he did things through others… Yet another that I would never want to meet in any of those rooms, much less in public ever again… Same with more, including the one that took advantage multiple times when I was blind to society and the world… I learned the hard way.
This is an advantage to them, the trans never had issues in the past years or we’d heard news on them far more than perverts…. Even in the Recent months (march forward) you’d find more articles on perverts than not. Grant it, I’m glad women can be more protective of themselves now. That there’s cellphones able to be used in just about anywhere, but that’s not always so in all bathrooms, etc. Including places that won’t allow electronics to be used.
I say for ALL safety, if really NEED be. Try to be an adult – be Mature. Be RESPECTFUL of all! not a damn idiot. This person clearly sadly shows the opposite in her article. If she had thought for one second of not being selfish at all or even towards certain ones and being hateful, etc. She’d come up with the same idea and plan that I and a few others have been expressing. Plans that I know works that’s not against any FEDERAL LAW as this actually is. The NC law is also against the federal one. It was mentioned today, but I’m not in the mood to look it up for people or tell you what Law/Act that it’s against. That’s something that you should do yourselves. Educate yourself. Research. It’s a selfless act. Learn.
Secondly, if it’s such a big damn deal.. Have three bathrooms. one for family, men, and women. Have stalls from head to two so people aren’t staring. If need be, use the family one for single people as well as mothers with sons, fathers with daughters, etc. You can MAKE it to where it’s safe and still be able to do your business. I love the stores with stalls that are enclosed head to toe without people able to peep in. This isn’t just for bathroom, but dressing rooms, etc. Privacy = easier to be comfortable to do what you need, etc. Even with other family members standing outside out of respect and you’re able to come out show them in your new outfits, etc. if it’s good or not, etc. besides just holding up clothing to one’s self to see if things would fit. this is also a good accuracy.
There are many with these that have no issue and have had no issue with people, etc. doing things they shouldn’t. Why can’t the rest of the country take note of those? Why do we always have to cause problems, when they don’t go our way??? It’s SELFISH, It’s SPOILED, and it’s STUPID.
There’s No respect, no morals or values. No one is really considering each other but themselves or certain ones. It’s all Politically Correct (that’s destroying by the way) or nothing and screw you if you can’t be PC Type… >.< It's all about certain gender, certain sexually, certain race… It's not about ALL. See? What ARE we doing to ourselves? Nothing, but destruction…
Who's really thinking for us? who's really not focusing that hey if government or media is causing all this mess or reporting on all of this mess to rile us up for nothing.. What are they really doing or hiding? Right Now, there are LAWS being passed when things like this happen. Right now, your internet is being discussed about how the government can control it. Tyranny is happening. There are Nuclear Plants Leaking, but withheld for secrecy. The Water system in a state poisoned, but nothing being done. See? what's going on?? They're fooling us with this.
They're blinding us and we're forgetting our morals, values, selfless respect, and maturity! Stop now or we will be under a full tyranny government and no one to blame but ourselves… there'd be nothing we'd be able to do either… They'd taken away our guns, etc… If you want to claim this is nothing but a conspiracy – why don't you – for yourselves see what laws are up coming, due, being discussed, and has been passed. Thank you!
I am so sorry for what you’ve been through. I can’t imagine how hard it must be be to live through that kind of terror. What you’ve gone through in your life has clearly left its mark on you and yet, you’re still a strong, confident woman. Please allow me to extend my deepest respect and best wishes. I’m so happy that you found a trustworthy person with whom you can share your life.
As someone who has been the victim of assault in a public bathroom, you are all too aware of the danger many of us face in a culture that has for too long allowed sexual assault be treated with far too little concern and often with very little consequences for the perpetrators. And, as I’m sure you know, this goes on not just in bathrooms, but on buses, subways, taxi cabs, public parks, schools (as it happened to you), and many other places.
What I would urge you to consider is that these acts are all already illegal, but have happened anyway. So-called Peeping Tom’s hide in places and take video. And this is beyond outrageous and these acts deserve our outrage. But the transgender community dies not. We are already failing to keep people safe from this and a change in bathroom policy will NOT change those statistics. But it will discriminate against the trans community. Sexual assault is already illegal. So, the argument that a man could dress as a woman to gain entry is silly. If this hypothetical man wanted to assault a woman/girl, he could simply walk in and do it. If he’s already willing to commit rape, he’s surely willing to walk into the “wrong bathroom.” And if this hypothetical man wants to sexually assault a boy/man, then this policy wouldn’t even begin to address that.
If we want to stop people from committing sexual assault in public bathrooms by barring people entry, we’d need to put a lock on the door and not opening it for anyone.
Truly, I think family-style bathrooms are a good solution for everyone here (although I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement). But aside for family bathrooms (which many Targets already have, btw), these bathroom policies do absolutely nothing to stop people from committing any crime at all. They hurt the LGBT community greatly and help no one. I am truly sorry for what has happened to you and I will continue fighting to make changes that will lead to actual increased safety, but this will not. Peace.
You don’t have to respect the opinions of people who disagree with you, but maybe you should at least attempt to understand it first. Nobody has an issue with “going to the bathroom next to someone who is LGBT”. But some people in this world are sick deviants, and a society we should acknowledge this glaring reality. No, I did not say transgender people are sick deviants, LGBT people coexist in this same real world where there are some people that are messed up. So if this is such a huge issue to protect the most vulnerable people in our shared society, then we need to set the threshold a tad bit higher than “self indentifying as a woman.” Because we can’t read hearts, minds and souls. Sorry. So yes, this opens a not so far fetched scenario in which a sick, twisted pervert can walk into a public restroom putting children in danger. We’re not your enemy, we just live in this world too, it’s not always about you.
I said I don’t respect the beliefs of those who think that LGBT people should not have the same civil and human rights as everyone else. The red words are hyperlinks, you can click on them and read in detail what I mean if you wish. I have no problem whatsoever with people disagreeing with me. If I did I wouldn’t blog with my picture and my real name for everyone to see. (the other hyperlinks take you to other articles that explain why this policy is actually not a danger, based on the 17 states that have already had these laws for years.)
This gave me chills. Awesome points.
Thank you Jamie.
For those that are Transgender just go to the bathroom of the Gender you were born with….I wont judge you. In fact if you are a guy that associates as a girl I am fine with you peeing next to me. What you do with your life is none of my business unless it directly effects my life or my family’s life. This really is not a big issue.
If you haven’t seen folks like myself speaking out against these things and trying to do something about them, you simply haven’t beenpaying attention.
You are as “deaf” yourself as you are ignorant. Too bad the internet gives you this platform. I want the 15 minutes of my life back that I just wasted reading this dribble.
My thoughts exactly!
well you two just wasted another minute being bigots who see the need to comment on everything behind the safety of their screen. want sixteen minutes back now?
I think the writer has some good points. In some cases stupidity of people about rape was immediately known and the politician resigned and no one defended him. But we do need to speak up. Maybe being strongly against rape is a position that seems so obvious that we don’t do it. I do remember social conservatives warning that values-neutral sex education had consequences. When in the 80’s and 90’s scandals erupted where high school senior boys kept competitive scorecards on girls they convinced to have sex with them, people seemed aghast. But it seemed to be part of the natural consequences of our fear of expressing ethical absolutes. I know that many ‘experts’ say rape is only about power and not sex, but I think they are half-wrong. It’s power expressed through sex. ‘Experts’ think there’s miles of space between an attitude about sex that’s selfish and hedonistic on one hand and rape. But I’m not so sure. Once sex is de-coupled from spiritual or moral considerations and kids are almost expected to be sexually active (from some types of sex-ed along with entertainment messages), how does that not translate into viewing others more as objects rather than persons? The ‘experts’ say that we can be completely emancipated sexually and at the same time be so respecting of others that we will not victimize others. That’s a very optimistic view of human nature (not to mention doesn’t take good consideration of the effects of alcohol) A more sober view of human nature, I think, would allow us to make more morally certain statements to kids (regardless of our own failures). But we are scared to make certain statements these days. Some say we can make certain statements about rape while not making certain statements about sexual ethics in general–and that will stop rapes. I’m just not confident. I think respect for others should go beyond merely whether or not a person forces himself on a person physically–and that respect can’t help but reduce rapes. So, I would say to the writer–maybe alot of folks who you see as silent–were silenced many years ago in the realm of public education. Some want people to speak up–but only on their own terms. But in the interest of clarity–I will say more often in more situations that rape is criminal, horrendous–and is an assault on souls.
any assault is about power. Rape is an assault where the weapon is sex or related to sex. And because of our moral issues with sex, assaults that involve sex are some how more degrading than other assaults. We need to further decouple sex from morals steeped in historical and institutional misogyny and respect each other as human equals and simply stop assaulting each other.
Stop assaulting each other…. Brilliant!! I wonder why no one else has thought of that. Thanks for taking care of that.
Thank you – well said. So very true, and sad that all of these horrible acts keep happening, and no one seems to care very much.
I fear for my sister, who is gay. Yes, she is married to another woman. But she looks like a man. So if she were to go into either bathroom at Target at this point, she could run into problems of harassment. I also wouldn’t want some woman walking into the bathroom that my son is in who could be there to hurt him, which could happen at Target, because he’s almost 9 years old. He is almost too old to be going into the women’s restroom with me. But I guess now that with Target’s new policy, this doesn’t matter anymore, and it doesn’t matter if my son sees another woman naked before he supposed to. Yes, not all doors lock in public restrooms, and sometimes those doors come open due to toddlers. So NO, the Target bathroom policy IS a problem. I don’t agree with you. IF I had the money to go fly all over the world and protest all of these bad things going on, I would. But I don’t. I have a life and 3 small children to take care of, so jumping on a plane to go protest about these other events that you mentioned all around the U.S., isn’t an option. But if something/anything happens in my town or state, I am there in an instant.
Brilliant! It’s what I’ve been saying since this whole thing started, but you said it SO much better than I ever could.
Nicely done! 🙂
Typical liberal. Don’t like my position, so you have to immediately start calling names. What the hell is cherry picked morals anyway? Yup, I can’t force my beliefs on you. But you can’t force your beliefs on me. Want a LGBT bathrooms? Fine. Tell the store to Build you one. Or two. Or however many you need. I couldn’t care less about your sexual preferences, much like I suppose you don’t care about mine. You see, in all that whine you write about women getting raped, I didn’t see a thing about boys getting raped. You see, I’m one of those victims. My old man raped my sisters and I on a regular basis. No one protected me. Both my wonderful sisters are gone now, too much pain for them to bear, so don’t tell me I wasn’t there to try to protect, I was. But he was stronger than us, and beat me until I pissed my pants. So all this crap about your rights doesn’t men shit to me. But let some molester go into a bathroom my daughter or grandkids are in, and there will be trouble. By the way, I don’t boycott Target because of their policies, I boycott them because they are a lousy retail store.
Psa_9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Love these sinners and tell them they are heading to hell and repent. 1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Ummm…Can I have a weight restriction on the bathrooms too? Like, 100-125 pounds, 125-150, etc. etc? Because if I am in a bathroom with a woman who weighs 100 pounds more than me, she could basically kill me just as easily as a man could. Or how about height? I am 5’4″ and if some 6 foot chick decides she wants to assault me, that would be really easy for her to do too. In case you haven’t noticed, I’m being sarcastic! You could get beat up, raped, murdered anywhere at anytime by anyone. People just need a boogeyman to rally against and this is it for now. Even if all gender assignment bathrooms disappeared and all bathroom just had rows of stalls, no urinals, you still wouldn’t see an increase in attacks, etc. Bathrooms are a little too public. I don’t know if everyone knows this, but normally if you are going to assault someone, you like to do it in private. Obviously this varies by location, time of day, and other factors, but my point still stands. Right now if I stop at a rest stop, at midnight, on a Wednesday to use the bathroom, and I am all alone, NOTHING IS STOPPING A STRAIT, MALE DRESSING MAN FROM FOLLOWING ME IN THERE AND KILLING/RAPING ME! You think a picture of a stick woman is going to a murderous strait, male dressing mad say, “Wait, I can’t go in there, because I am a man.” You think a “law” is going to do it? Murder is against the law; people murder people everyday. Laws are only as good as the people they govern, and it’s sad to say, we are a rotten people. Don’t believe me? Scroll up!!!!! I know, you think I am talking about “you” and now you are mad. If you are mad, it’s because I am talking about you 🙂 I applaud this letter, a million times over!
OH YEAH!! I’ve offended soooo many by simply pointing out statistics: 1 in 4. Look out your window and count every fourth home on your street and you will see where someone is being abused or is abusing another in some manner. I totally agree….WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU PEOPLE BEEN??
A good post. And true. But for the record, religion has been addressing these social issues for a long time. (Not all religions, of course.)
Only in the last century or so has it been quiet. Secular culture is still trying to find itself. Most of us religious folks are like, well we told you so but you didn’t want to hear it.
But excellent post none the less. 🙂
I don’t fear that my child will be attacked. Well I do, but that is not my biggest reasoning for not liking this policy. I don’t care what people do in their lives. Gay, straight, bi, transgender, that’s all fine with me. But I do not think my 2 sons need to see a female in the restroom they are using. As I do not think my nieces need to see a male while they are using the restroom. As my kids get older, they do not need to see anyone else’s parts that are not like theirs. I don’t even like to think of them having to see anyone else period. I know it happens in locker rooms. And mens restrooms with urinals. But I don’t like to think about it. But when they are teenagers I don’t want them seeing women in their restroom. That is my biggest concern. I will always fear my children getting hurt. I was hurt as a child. And it is my biggest fear that it could happen to my kids. So that fear is in fact magnified when I think of all the pedaphiles in this world, that could use this policy to their advantage.
I was sexually abused as a child. In my home. By people that I and my parents trusted. Not by strangers. Not in public. Not by trans people. They were white, American, males. I was 8. You have every right to fear for your child getting hurt. I fear that for my children. And if you don’t want them seeing the private areas of the opposite gender until later, that’s fine too. However, you should not assume that in a public restroom they will see the private parts of ANYONE, particularly someone who is trans. For example, with these laws that forbid trans people from using the restroom that they identify with, what people see is a woman walking into a men’s restroom, because that trans-woman was born male, identifies as female, dresses like, walks like, and talks like a female. Your children would never know, just like you wouldn’t know, that she was born male… until now, in these restrooms in North Carolina and other places that deny people the right to use a restroom or dressing room safely. Because trans people are more likely to be hurt with these laws, not cis people. And even people who aren’t trans… women who dress more masculine, keep their hair short, and wear guys clothes… they’re being hurt, too. And they are cis female and identify as such. These laws and boycotting Target and all of this is just worse for those who are not the ‘norm.’ And it isn’t fair. They’re being treated like second-class citizens… like they’re less that cis-gendered, straight people. That’s bullshit.
Yes, this. EXACTLY.
I’m not disagreeing with you. I stated my fears. I don’t have a problem with them using the restroom. They can go wherever they want to go. I worry about people who are pedophiles that will pretend to be transgender. And if you read what I said, I’m not looking forward to my sons seeing any private parts. Male or female. I know it is part of life in the locker rooms, and I have to deal with it. But I am allowed to have my fears. And you can you have your opinion. I don’t have the answer and I don’t like people being treated wrong. But I went through the same thing you did in my home, at ages 6-12. I have my right to fear pedophiles that will use whatever leverage they can to get access to children.
Exactly how would you children be viewing the genitals of a transgendered man? If the woman hasn’t had surgery yet, he will still have a vagina and won’t be at the urinal. If he has, he will have a penis. What exactly are you afraid of them seeing? And how would they see it?
You make excellent points, but please don’t stoop to the emotionally manipulative horseshit of calling Trayvon Martin a “child”. He was a fully grown 17-year-old who broke another man’s nose and split his scalp open before being shot.
17 years old is NOT fully grown. I sure wasn’t fully grown at 17. No one is. Ever.
Thank you so much for writing this. I have been trying to put into words why it is that these people who are ‘afraid for their children’ has bothered me so much. Thank you.
A bajillion times YES! This is everything I haven’t been able to articulate. Thank you.
Thank you
Thought provoking blog post, as can be seen by the 1000+ comments, thank you for writing it. As someone who supports the boycott, I would like to respond specifically to the statement “Where were you?”, which the blog post focuses on:
1. “You’re angry” – Nah, I’m not angry. I am concerned about the safety of my daughter. While you may be comfortable with standing outside the bathroom, I am not, and my daughter is probably way older than yours :-). The explosion of porn, sex abuse,… is unprecedented. I could go on for pages about this. We cannot be naive.
2. How do you know that I was not ‘there’? Simply put, how do you know that I wasn’t there speaking out against rape?
3. Who is the ‘you’? Is it the people who boycott Target? Are they all lumped together as some morally misdirected uniform crowd? Are you sure they – some, most, all – aren’t socially active against rape?
4. What about you as the author? The question can be turned to you using the same logic: where were you on issues such as abortion and constitutional rights were being challenged? An unfair question to be sure since we don’t know you – which is exactly my concern for the questions being asked in the posting.
Your challenging questions about what people are doing about rape are right on and need to be asked. This should not be missed. People need to be asked what are they doing about rape. I read the questions you ask and am challenged to do more.
I also support your fact checking about what is actually happening. It’s early in the bathroom debates, so this thing is evolving. For example, the mother in this article, http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/targeting-target/, is this true? Pointing to the article in the Huf Post, while interesting, may be premature, again, this is a new thing that’s just a month old.
Here’s my concern: Making broad sweeping statements and pinning them on ‘those target boycotters’, while dramatic, aren’t helpful to your concerns. It creates two problems, first, lumping all those ‘target boycotters’ together is simply wrong. Second, it still leaves open the question of men being in the women’s restroom. If the concern is over women being raped, then isn’t letting men into the women’s restroom part of that problem? I say yes.
Good calm points. Good link, too.
I don’t always agree with everything feminists say, but I do agree with some. I agree with what you said here about where were they? Because they weren’t screaming about how its wrong that women and children are being raped daily, some were even telling children they should feel lucky. Like all those young boys that come out about being raped by an older woman, no they shouldn’t feel lucky. Where were you all when that major polygamy group was being taken down in Utah and it had been proven that they were marrying and abusing girls as young as 14?
I’ve seen you talk about how your don’t want trans people in the restrooms of their gender identity and you don’t want unisex restrooms. You just want to shove us into the restrooms of our birth sex with others with like chromosomes. You don’t care that some look so much like women that you can’t tell the difference or others that look like men that you would never guess it. You don’t care that you are in fact putting more people in danger with policies like that. Yes putting us in the restroom of our birth sex will actually endanger cis women an children MORE then if you let us into the restroom of our gender identity. You don’t care that it is putting more stress and more anxiety and depression on the already crippling anxiety and depression that many transgender people feel because of the way society so openly disapproves and mocks us. You don’t care that you are encouraging murder and suicides by hundreds of thousands of people.
Yes protect the women and children, but throwing one group into harms way just to save a few isn’t the way to do it. Its morally wrong on every level. Would you support the torture of 700k people for years then the eventual murder of all 700k just to stop a potential threat that has no evidence of actually existing? If you would then you need to check your moral compass, because its a sickening thought to me. Truth be told, sexual assaults in a restroom existed before the fight for transgender recognition and protection. The reason you are seeing more of them in the news NOW is because of the spotlight on transgender people, our fight for equality has led to extreme publicity of any man caught in a woman’s restroom violating a woman’s rights. And what about all the reports coming in of women being attacked in a restroom by a man that suspected her of actually being a man and came in to force her out? Its happening more and more often, and they always use the same excuse for it “well she didn’t look like a woman to me.” WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN! Seriously people, anti-trans laws are more dangerous for everyone then pro-trans laws.
And also what about the feeling of the trans men and trans women? Like take me for example, I am completely uncomfortable in the men’s restroom. I am scared to my wits end when I am forced into one or when I was using them before my transition. Why? One because I am actually a girl that had a genetic hiccup whilst in the womb. Second because I was raped by a man when I was 12, yea that’s right I had a penis and was a “boy” but I was raped by an older man. It went unreported (to the police) and unbelieved for many years until I gave up trying to tell people about it. And on top of that I was beaten almost daily by another man, and drugged into a zombie like depressed state for years by him. He was someone I should of been able to trust and because of me saying I’m a girl on the inside and because I don’t look like him he abused and neglected me as a child. With those two things happening to me as a child I have grown a fear of men, I was born with a penis and I am afraid of men, it takes many years for me to build enough trust with a man to be able to be in the same room as him while alone. I was told that I’m a boy but I never could accept that even before I was raped. I am a woman with a troubled past and a fear of men, I should not be forced to pee next to people that make me so afraid.
As I said, I agree that women and children need to be protected but doing things like N.C. did will not help anything. It will only harm and hinder everyone. We need to find a way that will protect the women and children AND us transgender people.
Sadly having grown up in that state, it will take a miracle to get that to happen. I’m only one state down now with F2M tg roommate who refuses to start the process at all beyond private self identification or inside the walls of our apartment as she could lose her job if she comes out as Lesbian (which is what she says if asked, people accept that better than Trans in most places we’ve lived with the exception of Seattle) She won’t even use her accept gender pronoun or something neutral AT HOME (thus my calling her she here) because there are no laws to protect her job or our apartment should she be outed as either. Most overlook homosexual. They act like transgender is an illness they might catch. It will never be harder to be an ally than to be the LGBT person, sadly in this country neither are safe. I’m sorry you went through what you did, I’m sorry that, although I’ve never had a penis, that we share the same sisterhood. Survivors of childhood and adult abuse trauma and I agree, very much with Gretchen.
Where were they for us before any of this got to this point.
Why was no one listening or even able to see the VERY obvious signs or abuse and/or neglect.
I want us all protected, not just one group. The saddest thing, the thing we have be most concerned about, is us, Other people who prey on the weak or the different.
LOL I demand an edit button for my typos
Lol. Honestly I am surprised, surprised that my state still hasn’t tried to start any anti-trans legislation. I live in Utah, yet the only trans laws or references in laws are pro-trans. It’s so surprising that this super conservative state hasn’t tried to pass anything anti-trans. Even most of the people in my family and most in the community are pretty accepting and ok with it. It honestly gives me hope for the future.
That is one sisterhood that I wish that no one was in. No one should have to live with the pain of the memories from abuse. No one should have to live in fear because of abuse whether it be sexual, physical, or emotional.
Wow isn’t the writer high minded. Just like all the “High Minded” that have been shoving crap down the throat of “regular folks” for 20 years. You see it’s not that we are bigoted or haters. It’s the LGBT _ err Q or what ever other letters they want to add have finally pushed too far and too hard. Most RF (regular folks) never cared that such a small percentage of the population was gay, lesbian or the even smaller percentage that are trannys. No RF just didn’t care UNTIL we were forced to add sexual preference to federally protected hate class. UNTIL we were told to not on tolerate the LGBT community but we also have to celebrate their odd sexual ideas or we are the bigots and haters. UNTIL the LGBT community found it important to invade every aspect of RF lives and while invading flip the RF off with a gayly colored boa. You have to understand that RF are the ones that built this country. RF are the ones that spent their blood and lives all over the world to protect the rights for ALL Americans. The RF are the ones that go to church on Sundays and pray for ALL people, even LGBTers. No RF have tolerated about all they are willing to tolerate. So keep pushing and see how much push back is going to come your way. Now take your whiney ass crap down the road the RF are tired of the guilt and we are tossing it off and worrying about the RF best interest from now on.
So killing LGBT people just because they are LGBT is accepting? Ostracizing them because they are different is tolerance? We didn’t start a fight for legal protection because we felt tolerated and accepted, we started because we were sick and tired of being trampled on. You say that “RF” tolerated us? What a joke. It’s not tolerance that made gaypanic and transpanic legal and acceptable arguments for assault and murder, its intolerance and bigotry. Its not tolerance that prevented homosexual people from marrying, its intolerance. Its not tolerance that forces and demands trans people to go through YEARS of therapy just to start their transition and end the dysphoria. No we were not tolerated, at least not at a level that considered us human. So long as we were considered sub-human we were tolerated. So long as we were laughed at, joked about and made out to be the butt of many jokes we were tolerated. So long as we accepted our sub-human status and accepted our lack of rights and protections we were tolerated. We are not sub-human, we do not deserve to be attacked or murdered just because we are different then the rest of you.
Another loving Christian chiming in (ugh, so gross).
Thank you for your beautiful words. As a member of the LGBT community, I have been waiting for this post for a long time. I am so sick of people that I love being so misinformed. I am sick of people believing that just because Target as done that with their bathrooms that men are going to start raping females, just because it is legal for them to go into the same restrooms now. Newsflash, if a man wanted to rape a women that freaking bad, a stupid “ladies room” sign would not stop him. I have a few dear friends that are either transgender or gender fluid and to see people make shit up like, “oh they are going to rape my wife and kids” is beyond stupid. We all have been using the same exact bathrooms forever. Even before they became known as transgender.So, again, as a member of the LGBT community, I thank you so very much.
A powerful write.
Amazingly well said.
Really powerful. Thank you for putting this into words.
thetearoomsblog.wordpress.com
Wow. This was brilliant. Thank you
https://youtu.be/bSzrxhtRWpc
Sign up
And where are the angry voices when a POTUS (Clinton) doesn’t believe that oral sex is sex and when the a DEM candidate defends her husband’s affairs with women (e.g., Monica), even when it’s clearly an abuse of power.
Um, because the topic is about non-consensual sex? Not consenting sex between adults. Maybe that’s why.
Wow, great points that I haven’t seen raised until now. Powerfully written. I’m glad this is getting the attention it deserves.
This post is a rant, not a post. So stupid!!!
Go take more selfies and talk more about how you represent a loving God as you leave rude comments like these. Everyone believes you.
Now we are hating on God? Seriously.
No Donna, not God… just you!
Lol
Your “comment” is a rant.. and it is stupid..
You are gross. It’s so weird that you as Christians evangelize a loving God and then you come online where there are thousands of nonbelievers and you scream at them, insult them or call a fellow Christian’s post “stupid” and then you expect people to believe in a loving God. That’s why most people think it’s bullshit, because you tell everyone about God but you act so terribly. Nice job.
It doesn’t bother me in the least what you think. I commented on the bathroom issue and everyone brought GOD into my initial comment. Read the threads, if you want to spar me on the God issue – just open and read the bible ( all of it, all the way through) first, then you can talk to me otherwise I don’t argue scripture. God is very clear without me as an echo
Nope hateing on god, lol no need to hate fucking fairy tales lol
I understand that you disagree. Would you mind answering a question for me about your comment? How does someone expressing herself automatically equate to a rant instead of a post? Can someone not rant in a post? And why call that stupid? Almost every single thing she ”ranted ” about was backed up with sources. That sounds intelligent, not stupid. Can you please tell me why it’s stupid? I don’t see your reasoning convincing. Her reasoning was convincing. Please do not call something or someone stupid in public without sharing why you think so. All you manage to do is convey hate and resistance. I invite you to choose differently next time.
Lizzi you are amazing 💜
Thank you, Gretchen! I really enjoyed reading your post. You had a lot of very solid points to make. I relate and appreciate your thoughts. 🙂
I am not angry about her post, but I think she based her whole argument on ‘fear of assault’, and ignored the privacy issue. I am for less worried about rape than I am about this intrusion on MY privacy in the toilet, and the privacy of all teenage girls to shower and change clothes at school without boys being allowed to watch them. I am upset that they are justifying these ‘bathroom’ rules as a transgender privacy/rights issue, but are not requiring the transgenders to ‘identify’, thereby allowing any and all males to enter these facilities. Then, they call us haters, racists and/or, ‘transphobics’ because we object to this GROSS intrusion on our privacy!
Most fathers do NOT go into the bathroom when their own teenage daughters are using the toilet or showering, but these liberals, under the guise of ‘do gooders’, are mandating that other men and boys MUST be allowed to view their daughters in bathrooms, locker rooms, and showers.
I don’t care if a transgender who is dressed like and looks like a woman uses the bathroom, and they have been for years. We don’t even know when they are there. So who made this a problem? Who started this, and WHY?
And what is wrong with three bathrooms giving everyone their choice; Men’s, Women’s, and/or Unisex?
Also, why start these bathroom policies in schools grades K through 12, if it is not to brainwash our kids. Even today, scientists can NOT prove or verify whether it is a real biological anomaly, or a psychiatric disorder. But the American Association of Pediatrics, recently published statistics showing that almost 90% of teens identifying as transgenders revert to their biological gender after going through puberty!!!!!! There should be NO TRANSGENDER ENCOURAGEMENT, OR RULES AT ALL in schools because these kids are too young to know who they are yet!.
I fear that this has more to do with controlling the masses, and dehumanizing women, than it has to do with transgenders (less than 5% of the population.
This is insane!
TH IRONY OF ALL OF THIS TURMOIL IS: it is still against the law for that ‘transgender’ (or anyone) to urinate in public.
In every home there is a bathroom shared by all genders … It has a door … Public facilities have a door … If you are worried about your privacy, close the door … It is actually that simple.
Thank you Chloe Rowles for your response. I have been reading a lot of the studies that have been conducted. There are theories as to why people are LGBT but there has NOT been any conclusive evidence proving they are born this way. All we hear anymore is how this is not their fault, we need to make accommodations for them, when that is not the case. As for Beck Mitchell’s reply: sharing a bathroom means more than one person being in there at the same time. Families do NOT do that. A private bathroom is a single use facility, meaning one person in the room at a time. These bathrooms exist in many places (family/unisex) and these are the places anyone can use if they are not comfortable in their own bathroom. Men do NOT belong in women’s bathrooms, period!
I have never seen a ladies or girls restroom that has doors that go from floor to ceiling. They have stalls, with big gaping open areas above and below the walls and door. There are also cracks around the doors, wide enough to see through, and possibly to photograph through. As for locker rooms, they are usually one big open room, with no stalls, no walls within it, no privacy whatsoever. Of course girls and women won’t want to change clothes there, with boys or men around.
Chloe why don’t you post a link to this supposed AAP study that 90%. You are flat out wrong and miss informed!!!
It actually wasn’t the American Association of Pediatrics. It was the American College of Pediatrics. They are an offshoot that is known for their anti-LGBT stance. I think the estimated membership is anywhere from 60-200 members, whereas the AAP has 60,000.
Actually most average Christians have always stood up and fiercely fought for women to be protected , and yes, against anyone committing the crimes you talk to make a bad one , that could hurt our family! So you are wrong ! We do draw a line when someone changes a good policy that could possibly hurt women and girls ! We do not risk their lives ! We will not be back unless your policy goes back to a sensible one for the majority of your customers ! We have been told that there are less then 1 % of those who are Transgender . Why would you change your policy to upset the other 99% ?
Swing and a miss! Good job on missing the point and making the point at the same time. If you’re that concerned about a measly 1% transgendered population using restrooms at Target, I sincerely hope you don’t let your children/grandchildren go anywhere or do anything without someone you trust watching over them constantly. Oh, wait. Can’t always trust family members, either. Now what are you going to do? Pick a battle worth fighting. This is an inconsequential skirmish.
Paula, I have to wonder, what would you consider a battle worth fighting? Seems to me Ms. Kelly is fighting for those who have been marginalized by our society – not only transgender people, but also women, blacks, girls, and victims of rape and abuse. Which other more worthy battle would you have her take up? Also–inconsequential for whom? Or maybe I’m just ignoring your point, which is a loud and clear, “I DON’T CARE ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE!”
Paula, I’m sorry… I totally misinterpreted your post. I thought you were responding to the article, but now I see that your response was to Reichenbach up there. My apologies, we’re making the same argument. I wanted to delete my comment, but I don’t find a way to do that.
Jesus said leave the 99 and go after the one lost sheep.
A video featuring the testimonies of rape/sexual abuse victims about the bathroom bill. I wonder Gretchen, since you are so vocal about sexual abuse , if you considered this ? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tg-MAMvkplE&feature=youtu.be
Hannah
This is such a powerful, genuine video that expresses a real reality for women today. It’s shocking to see the viewpoints of ppl who are lobbying for this right to be abolished. Typically I don’t bother reading blog post like these, but I ran across it on WP Discover. The remarks are so astonishing I never bothered to jump in the bull ring. I’ve visited safe houses for rescued young girls and women and I developed a heart for women and young girls that have been abused through various ways. It’s a very serious matter that is now in the face of all of us. God help us all.
Thank you for sharing.
The post is legitimately angry. The writer is justified in her rant, a word we need to take back.
I’m a Christian but I don’t judge or dislike people for there choices, its not for me to do this. “Its God’s job” As far as I am concern each of you who believe in God yet play God by judging are all sinners. Let all people live there lives, there is a quote in the bible that clearly ready “welcome one who is weak in faith and do not judge thy brother” you quote from areas only you see fit “try living the bible it too”. Perhaps you wont be so evil.
Look at our world all this hate and wars is based on religion.. STOP PLAYING GOD!!
I’m evil?i simply stated the writer made a rant not a post – she brought God in it. All the haters are coming from her side. Read your threads before you attack someone for being evil.
What she’s saying is true. If safety is the concern and has been the concern, then why hasn’t there been an outcry for justice in any of the scenarios listed? The women being assaulted on colleges, child predators getting slaps on the wrist as far as sentencing, young kids gunned down by police…if the concern is really about safety for women and children, where’s the outrage for all of that? A transgender pissing in a bathroom is more of a security threat than any of the above?
A rant, not a post? What does that even mean? By virtue being online, it’s a post. A rant is characterized by passion, unbridled bluster, often loud, one way hollering. This little essay possesses none of these characteristics except passion. There is also intelligence, research, and open-mindedness present. So, I would also eliminate the category, “stupid”. What then draws my attention is an active curiosity as to why you would offer such a hostile comment. The obvious answer is that Ms. Kelly’s essay has struck a nerve. Perhaps you are one of the faceless minions who have not spoken up on behalf of assaulted women, bathrooms or not. Transgender folks have a lot of issues, not least of which is fear of those who have not called for greater attention to e paid to sexual assault, rape and child molestation but instead focus on what actually offends them…the existence of alternate life-styles dictated, apparently, by DNA/chemistry they have no control over. What truly is “stupid” is the belief that offering a mean, bigoted comment as an argument to a well-thought out, well-written position paper on a controversial subject, and while doing so, offering up a test of one’s own moral evaluation. A test that reveals one’s own hidden bigotry.
Stupid is simply a non sense comment. Get in line with the Target folks, I could care less about your opinion. Get over it!!!
Thank you for writing this! I wish I could like this 100 times. I feel like you were inside my head saying all the frustrations I have on this issue but haven’t been able to vocalize properly.
Reblogged this on Open Thought Vortex and commented:
This is a hot button issue. Open Thought Vortex is a publication through which issues that matter the most can be discussed. Read it. Think about it. Discuss it.
Shareen
This is fantastic. I reblogged it. I would luck to extend an invitation to you. Please join us . https://otvmagazine.com/2015/10/16/linkyourlife-has-a-facebook-group-and-youre-invited/
And for info on what to link :
http://honeyquill.com/category/linkyourlife/
This invite extends to everyone who commented or you may invite others to join us on Fridays. We want to keep a real dialogue & you wrote this with tremendous strength & respect to anyone reading it.
Agreed, agreed and agreed. I am also the mom that is always worried and that would never let her children in a restroom alone. This fear is completely misguided, because predators do not fit a certain description and they can be either sex. So if your concern is that some creepy male child molester is going to rape your daughter in a public restroom because now he can go in there, you are very confused because any person who would do this is already raping your sons next door. Contrary to popular belief, creepy people that would do this haven’t been using a special bathroom marked “pedifiles only,” and they do in fact have the same bathroom needs as the average person.
Hi,
There was a fair bit contained in this post about male on female violence. Given the real stats available, which don’t fit the usual narrative and demonstrate that men are as or more likely to face domestic violence are you able to stand up for gender equality and write a piece that demonstrates the truth. I ha e tried, but I am a man and nobody really cares what I have to say.
Thanks
And now you embrace them and welcome them even closer to harm.
tlstrong , what exactly does that comment mean?
This post took the words right out of my mouth. I have two amazing friends, who have transgendered children. To see them, you would never know that a birth certificate marked them down as female. As a matter of fact, if either of them walked into a women’s restroom the same people bitching about them using the bathroom of the gender they identify with, would be throwing a tantrum over men being in their restroom. This whole boycott target thing is beyond ridiculous because it is not a new thing… Target has always been accepting of all people regardless of their choices. They just reiterated their policy to show their support. Also they are not the only ones. If all these boycott fanatics are really going to show their disdain for this they need to write down a list starting with Facebook. Thank you for your post!
Reblogged this on pliscaplace.
My opinion, I hardly ever use public bathrooms. Why? Because, they are never clean. People are perverted, once I worked for this company and the boss put a video camera in the girls bathroom and blocked off the one stall. Ever since I worry about all bathrooms being bugged.
This is an excellent article. Too bad the people who it addresses won’t see themselves in it because they are so fanatical. They have their sights set on a particular group, it was gay people, but they lost that war, so now onto an another already stigmatized group. Trans people don’t bother anyone, they just want to live their lives. It is a shame that these groups wrap themselves in the bible and claim to be doing gods work, but in reality it is nothing more than them bullying people who THEY decided are wicked and sinful. Thanks for writing this, I truly hope it gets passed along to at least one of them and maybe they might ask themselves if it is about them.
perfectly said.
Wow. Well said 👍
As cruel as it sound this is the reality of our society. And most of the time we turn blind eye.
Totally agree with this article, well done 👍👏
Well I hear you, but I would like to know we’re were you or others like you when a man is raped by a women? It does happen, and much more then you think. It never goes anywhere as women as well as men laugh these men right out of the police station. You stated several times how this policy would make it safer for LBGT. How? Really how? See I am a gay man,and this bloody policy doesn’t do a damn thing for me. I fact were were you when I was beaten to a bloody stump some years back, in a public restroom, a restroom in a mall btw. I don’t really have a big issue with your anger, I understand some of it, even if you are doing the old fragile little women speech. But leave the LBG out of it and just use the T. And just for my two more cents I have an issue with targets new restroom policy. And I plan on boycotting them, not like I shop there anyhow…please! But my reason aginst it is for starters target is not doing this because they care so damn freakin much about how trans people feel. They are doing it solely for political reasons. It is strictly a marketing move, and they have weighted the reactions long before they ever announced this new marketing ploy. I am also aginst it as really are there that many trans, true trans walking around? I have been gay and out most likely longer then you have been alive. I have always resented trans people being lumped in with gay rights. Ever since stonewall. While I have been mostly alone in this I still resent trans lumped in with gays. Hell I don’t like being lumped in with bisexuals and lesbians either. We are all completely different groups no matter what you may think or hear. Trans people are not gay in any way, so why oh why were they lumped in with my group? Because they had no where else to turn and they rode our coat tails of success over the last 45+ years. As far as I feel if it still has a dick then it is a man and needs to use the men’s restroom. If their in a skirt well too damn bad, they have been able to hide away while many of my now dead from AIDS friends campaigned on their behalf. Yeah sour grapes honey I know. And I don’t have to abide by your cherry picked morality. So suck it bitch.
Dude, check your history. Two trans women, Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, were leading voices at Stonewall and in the battle for LGBT rights as a whole. You have trans people to thank for the rights you have now.
The American College of Pediatricians cites several studies showing that gender ideology HARMS children. http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children
Uncompleted transgenders (gender reassignment surgery not done), while counseled by psychiatrists to live as the gender identified with for at least a year before having the surgery, I don’t want a person with male genitalia in the bathroom with me – or my daughter or my granddaughter. The policies being put into place not just by Target but by school systems, places of business, and transportation hubs allow ANY person to “say” they identify as a gender and use that restroom. There are absolutely no safeguards in place, no guidelines, no restraints.
This whole thing needs to be rethought from a reasoned and logical position. Put in some safeguards to reduce the chances that some “transgender impersonator” will gain access to restrooms of the opposite gender.
Why would a criminal let a very minor bathroom policy law change their action? I take my daughter into male bathrooms all the time. I don’t want her seeing men’s “junk” but she’s seen mine and I’m not really scared of it. Of course, I’m very afraid of something happening to her outside of my protection. But, the laws against rape and other criminal acts are certainly stronger than a “hey, don’t go in the women’s bathroom” policy. Even if this law was passed, what’s stopping someone from going into a bathroom? Do you think a perp is going to go in and do this act while the bathroom has people in it? If it was done, they would wait until no one is around and sit in a stall.
Now, one thing I do recognize is a big dichotomy concerning gun control and bathroom policy. As a liberal myself, I ask myself if I’m a hypocrite asking for more gun control and less bathroom policy. These are obviously very complex issues and it wouldn’t be fair if I didn’t mention a level of my own hypocrisy here.
Think about states that increased the legal drinking age. They did it because studies showed that alcohol related injuries and death decreased when the drinking age was increased. DUI was illegal either way, but because of greater access to alcohol the lower drinking age made alcohol related bad behavior more likely, whether it was because of parents being worried about being sued, kids being worried about going to jail, etc.
The same idea applies with these access laws. If you say men can be in the women’s bathrooms simply if they “self-identify” as a woman there will be more men in the bathroom looking for opportunities, casing the place, etc. You and I both know that there are many, many bathroom cam videos online, and this policy will just fuel that as the unisex bathrooms at colleges have. There are 100’s of thousands of sex offenders in this country. It would be very surprising if some of them didn’t use the access laws to check out the women’s rooms and see what opportunities were there. With Target’s access policy, if I see a man when I go alone into the bathroom, I sit and hope that he doesn’t have bad intentions, without that policy I can call store security and tell them there’s a man in the bathroom. There have been many, many times that men have used the isolation of a bathroom to attack, or videotape women, we shouldn’t welcome them in. Ridiculous.
You mention your hypocrisy on the issue as a liberal, and I appreciate your candor. But to make the comparison to gun laws you will have to compare it to what would be a blanket permission gun law, no registration that can be revoked, etc. So imagine a gun law where someone behaves badly with a gun, but there’s still nothing you can do to take away their opportunity to carry. Crazy, right? There was a case with a biological girl in N. CA who after getting the right to go in the boys room made a claim of rape happening there. But then after conflicting stories and no evidence, she had to retract her claim. Under these blanket policies she’s still allowed in, as is anyone who uses the access laws to peep or expose themselves in a locker room, etc. These access laws are ridiculous, a male prisoner who “identified” as a woman raped his cellmate, but still couldn’t be sent to the male prison until a few other incidents had happened. Bad law based on emotions of wanting to be oh, so tolerant instead of the reality of epic levels of sexual assault and harassment in our culture.
On the gun subject – if someone acts “bad with it” they would go to jail. With guns there are two sides – criminals with intent and then accidents (toddlers shooting people – which happens weekly). Look, I hate crime and there’s such a balancing act between a police state and civil liberties. In the age of the internet, we get exposure to so many data points. For example, I can argue that alcohol laws hit 99% of people that have NO intent to break the law before consumption. A perv/rapist has intent ahead of a law. I still don’t believe that the bathroom policy statistically impacts cases, but yes, a rapist would have easier access and still would be committing a crime. IE, a liberal will always have examples of civil liberties being trampled on and a conversative will always have examples of some perv taking advantage of a bathroom policy to be bad. I think technology should play a bigger role. Put a camera outside of bathrooms, sure add a fingerprint reader (this sounds less liberal than most of my colleagues). It’s clear that simply trusting thy neighbor (people we know are the highest committers) is naive. That’s been the case far before Brutus stabbed his best friend.
Seems wasteful to me to require all businesses to add fingerprint readers, etc. that may or may not work, or require constant maintenance. But at least you realize that it’s a potential issue. Most people who are proponents of the access laws are saying opponents are simply bigoted and that there are no real life concerns that opponents could possibly actually be concerned about.
Target could simply add the 3rd single user “family” bathroom to all their stores if this is an issue that they want to highlight. (As mentioned as the solution in the boycott petition…) But activists are unwilling to accept this reasonable compromise, which should tell you something about their motivations in not wanting to resolve this issue.
To be fair, I think everyone recognizes issues and back to the heart of this blog, to me, the author is highlighting issues that should be much more a priority for all of us vs. something with such a low incidence rate. What has happened with this issue is the voices at the extremes are drawing many more in, and many are being forced to gather in red or blue groupings. The red grouping sounds like hating homophobes because the loudest voices are calling trans people abnormal, evil, perverted, etc. The blue groupings loudest voices are saying “you are idiots, no one gets assaulted in a bathroom, your kids have nothing to worry about.” The reality, as you can see in many postings is super sad. There’s a lot of anger and frankly way too many people that the discomfort and perceived fear of imagining a life with trans people co-existing close by translates into oppression and hate. That’s so sad for these folks. http://www.care2.com/causes/1-unmissable-quotes-from-lana-wachowskis-hrc-speech.html
That would be great if people would leave their “red and blue groupings” to address the issue, but where would be the compromise? The Target boycott itself suggests the compromise of Target making sure stores have a 3rd single user/family bathroom. Which seems like a good compromise for .3% of the population. But the trans rights people have rejected it. In the IL case the teen boy who identified female was given the right to be in the girls’ restroom, the right to be in the girls’ locker room, but all that wasn’t enough– he took the case to the IL Supreme Court to fight the privacy curtain between him and the dressing girls– AND he won. Where’s the room for compromise?
You yourself are characterizing people on my side as “fear of imagining a life with trans people co-existing.” That is profoundly unfair. In HI the public schools gave into the trans demands and made unisex bathrooms. Soon a mentally handicapped freshman was raped in one of the unisex bathrooms. When localities open women’s shelters and prisons up to males identifying as women, women are assaulted, peeped at and raped. (I can give you the local news stories for each of these.) I care about these vulnerable people and am not going to shut up because people call me bigoted or fearful. Why do I have to pretend there are no concerns? Isn’t that standing up for women to be safe like the author of this blog pretends to want? But when I stand up for a real threat she says I’m bigoted and don’t care about women being hurt. That’s simply not true.
I did not call you bigoted, Annie. When I said “I don’t need to respect your beliefs” in the first paragraph, I was referring to people who demonize LGBT. Those who say they are sick or sinful of mentally ill. Those are the words of bigots, those who classify an entire group of people as sub-standard. I even said (paragraphs 5 or 6) that I was talking to the reasonable people who had concerns about safety.
Now, what is concerning, is that a group that is well known for being bigoted towards the LGBT community (The American Family Association) started a petition and played on people’s fears. I think that’s worth noting. Are you fears legitimate? Of course. But the law of averages, the history of these policies, etc. show that most of these fears are based on events and incidences that have nothing to do with the Transgender protection laws. (Anyone getting their info from AFA or Brietbart should vet it on other, non biased sites before believing them) The “hate group” known as the American Family Association is orchestrating all of these things and people’s concern for the safety of their loved ones as fuel for their agenda. That is suspicious to me. That’s why I wrote this. Your concern for safety doesn’t make you a bigot. But I think people should be aware that there is false information and spin being put out by bigoted groups to advance an anti-LGBT agenda. This has been documented. They are going state by state to influence legislation like HB2. In the wake of marriage equality rulings, this is their next battle. All the while, they are ignoring the very real threats to women and children that they claim to be so concerned about. This letter was a plea to see through the bullshit and vet your (meaning everyone’s) sources and know who’s agenda you’re advancing when you buy into actions such as the boycott. Especially noting that the Target policy has been in place for years. Especially noting that 237 major cities in the US have similar policies in place for years. This is a trumped up issue.
I appreciate that you’re here for a productive discussion. That’s what I love about the comments section. I can’t possibly respond to all comments, but I’ve seen many of yours and I’ve seen that you really want to discuss this, so when I saw that you thought I was calling you a bigot, I had to respond.
Hey, if you are willing to use a bathroom designated for bigots I will use one designated for transgender folks. The difference is people like me are regularly beaten and killed just for being outed. We don’t care about your stupid fears, I’ve been in a lot of bathrooms, never once seen somebody else’s genitalia, unlike you using the right bathroom literally is a matter of life and death. There has never been a confirmed case of a trans woman(since nobody is worried about trans men) raping or assaulting anybody in a bathroom. There are thousands of cases of trans women being beaten, raped, molested, and murdered for using a bathroom(mens or womens). So yhea you can take your seperate but equal bathroom policy and shove it.
The problem is this, forcing trans-women to use mens rooms INCREASES their chances of being raped and murdered by a huge amount while not affecting cis-womens safety in any way shape or form. We already have many cities, companies, states, and towns that have protections for transgender people and there is no increase in bathroom issues.
The American College of Pediatricians is a small (60-200 members), incredibly socially conservative group, only founded in 2002, with a name designed to mimic the American Academy of Pediatrics (founded in 1930, 64,000 members), which is the authority on the subject. The ACP split from the AAP over the AAP’s decision to affirm adoption of children by gay couples, and has continued to have views that align with anti-LGBTQ sentiment.
For the record, the AAP’s statements on the care of LGBTQ youth include the recommendation for professionals that “Transgender adolescents need to be supported and affirmed” and say nothing about gender identity harming children. (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/132/1/198.full?sid=baab3d90-dd2d-4618-8b7d-b3091d6eb732)
Well said. I haven’t been able to put into words the similar thoughts you’ve shared.
http://www.kanyon212.com
Tbis is ignorant garbage and a man was just caught in the ladies bathroom takong pictures of a little girl. Please dont post garbage when in reality yoir just jumping on a band wagon to make yourself feel better about trans gender people. Its not about them its about the sick people who pretend to be.
Taking pictures of a little girl is still illegal, punishing transgender people and forcing them into unsafe situations doesnt change that at all. Its like beating every child in a room because one child stole a box of crayons.
Oh. My. Word. I LOVE this post! It is everything I have been thinking! I will be sharing and commenting this on http://littlegirlfound.com
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Beautifully said.
I liked target when it was here in Bc…one think they did wrong opened there doors when most of their shelves were empty. There prices were not to bad. Their clothing I liked it was way better then Walmart. There staff was nice, and for waiting in line wasn’t long they opened another cashier came. I started to love target to and not liking Walmart much.
You know, I was feeling every little bit about this post right up until she pulled out “white male outrage”. Why bother putting a racial card on abhorrent behavior? White males aren’t the only people who can do horrible acts against others. Ah well. Comments like that just make me dismiss everything I read before and now this post is just…bothersome.
I have seen too much on the internet. I know creeps are out there.
‘Gaydar’ does not exist, neither does ‘Creepdar.’
I just won’t use public bathrooms or go in alone.
I think the reason their are social ‘meltdown’ moments is because multiple issues get conflated and everybody feels they are not heard.
A starting point is to listen. Shouting louder typically backfires except to serve the purpose of proving one’s own voice as right since no one else is audible when one is screaming.
I think you have an opinion on the issues around bathrooms; as well on a litany of other matters you raise. If someone disagrees with you about bathrooms, does that mean they disagree with you and are silent on everything else you raise?
She keeps asking ‘where were you’ when specific crimes were committed. I’d like to ask ‘where was she’? Was she boycotting, protesting, shouting from the rooftops? What has she changed in our society? Sadly, nothing! But she can judge everyone else!!
Transgendered women have been using women’s bathrooms for decades! Where do you think they have been going to the bathroom all this time? You have shared the bathrooms with them as well. Who here has ever been attacked by a transgendered person in a bathroom?
Why can’t we focus on poverty, health care, Syrian refugees (those women have to use fields to evacuate AND have been raped doing so), education and stuff that really keeps women protected and safe? We have enough issues that endanger women. We do not need to invent them.
You raise an interesting point in the first paragraph. It’s been a nonissue for so long, why is it suddenly an issue now? Why the demand for change now after so long with there being no issues?
Trans woman here. I’m what’s called “visibly trans”. Meaning…. Duh. Anyways, I’ve been threatened and assaulted in the men’s room, and thrown out of the store by security for using the women’s. Now I hold it. All the time. I can’t leave my house very far, and have to return home after one or two errands… My doctor also says holding it in is causing kidney problems for me. He also said kidney failure was common among trans people for this reason. . So no, it didn’t work just fine previously. It sucked.
“I’m what’s called “visibly trans”. Meaning….”
Meaning what exactly?
I read Gretchens letter in its entirety. I can state statistics to show facts just the opposite of her statistics. I can also cuss, call names or discount someone else’s opinion (as she did). All arguments pro and con have been made by various people. This is my opinion (which I am entitled to). NO man needs to be in a woman’s bathroom. I have the right to feel safe, or just COMFORTABLE in the bathroom. I should not HAVE to quote statistics, argue, fuss, or fight. If we all TRULY want to JUST use the bathroom there is a third option already (or build one where they don’t exist). Not only do I have the right to my opinion, I also have the right to spend my money where I want and not spend it where I don’t. If I so passionately disagree with something it is ALSO my right to boycott!! Target is wrong, that’s why I’m boycotting them and will ccontinue to do so!!
Well, that is just fine, Trans-women are still women, And they don’t want men in womens bathrooms either. Trans-women have a higher chance of being raped and of being murdered than the average cis-woman, making them go to mens rooms is just irresponsible and is already leading to assaults (men assaulting trans-women)
when I was 14 years old, I was grocery shopping with my mom, and I went to the back bathroom. Within a minute of going in the stalls, two men burst in, and tried to bust down the stall door. The way I look at it is, a man in a dress is still a man. Stores just need to make those neutral bathrooms to make everyone happy. Women do not want men in the women’s restroom
I am very sorry that happened to you. And yes, A man in a dress is still a man. A trans-woman is a woman though. They look like women, behave like women, and live as women. Hell, they even have less testosterone in their body than you do. Trans-women are more likely to be sexually assaulted or murdered in a bathroom than a woman is.
I understand that, and, now my trans-sisters are at risk too… because imagine all the pervert men who will take advantage of this law, just to gain easy access to watch women and girls in the toilet?
Where are your cry’s of outrage when Muslims can marry little girls and rape them,rape Christian women,beat,burn,torture,stone and kill women,murder LGBT people.You seem to be ok with that because you don’t seem to have an issue with Obama bringing them here by the thousands.
If you enjoy topics like this then I invite you to join my channel, Raw Orange, as I talk live about hot, controversial events that are going on in our world and this transgender issue with bathrooms, well I have a lot to say on it and want to give my personal opinions on what I see….as of right now, not saying I am for it or against it, because with my show, along with personal opinions on whatever topic I am covering, I bring interesting facts to life and this right here….well is going to be a fun one to discuss
Drifting thru your mind: you don’t worry. You’re a hack.
Being one sex and thinking you are another is a mental disorder and should be treated as such, rather than catered to. A person is either XX or XY, no matter how they play dress up. It can’t be changed. People and organizations mandating the widespread enabling of this mental disorder is sociopathy at it’s finest and shows a lack of moral responsibility and social conscience.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
“A person is either XX or XY, no matter how they play dress up”. You are only partially right. Yes us humans are a two gendered species. Male and female. Yes this comes down to XX or XY. The biological system in place is much more complex than that. Anomalies occur. For instance, people born with both sets of genitalia. Also XXY, because of the Y, is considered male but may develop breasts during puberty. However, there is more that determines what gender we are. There are hormone levels (Testosterone vs Estrogen). It’s even been determined, despite everyone having a unique brain, that male and female brains differ. So you can have someone born male with higher than normal estrogen levels which may be accompanied with lower than normal testosterone levels and they may even have a brain with some characteristics unique to females. All of which are to varying degrees. You could say “no, you have a Y chromosome so you are male” and then have them undergo medical procedures and therapy and take hormone supplement but what is being overlooked is the mental well being of the person. It is much more beneficial for the person to receive the medical procedures, therapy, and medication needed to have them be the gender they identify as. The result is basically the same, you have someone who is either male or female for all intents and purposes, the only difference is whether or not the person is happy or miserable.
The real issue are those identity political nut jobs who want to be identified as ‘Xr’, or ‘them/they’, or whatever the latest identity fad happens to be. These people are either just trying to fit in with their social click (following the trend), are resentful towards society and want to be different and stand out (possibly just be difficult to others), are resentful of their own humanity, or it’s a coping mechanism for something that happened to them (what I like to call the ‘Chuunibyou’ effect).
You… cited a known and very vocal discredited doctor. You have researched this topic enough that you cherry picked this one guy our of THOUSANDS of doctors who disagree with him. You already have all the facts and you are not just trolling people to spread your hate or just do it for the laughs.
So either A) your a hateful bigot that picks and chooses their morality
or B) your a idiot savant who is clueless but managed to grab the one doctor who actively lies so that children commit suicide
or C) your a troll.
I nominated you for the Liebster Award! I thought this post was really great and I really enjoy your blog. Check out my post with the questions for you to answer here.
https://kaislifeinwords.wordpress.com/2016/05/17/the-liebster-award
great post, I absolutely agree with everything you said. you found yourself a new follower.
I hope that it’s the people who think like this that prevail in the world. It’s scary to think that the men who write up these stupid laws. Kill children. Rape women… Are going to be the ones eventually take humanity down… Not to say women are the most innocent of creatures but it is a man’s world and it just gets worse every day.
Perfectly showcases the irony and hypocrisy of the anti-trans bathroom outrage. This is fantastic.
Hey gay is in now days. It does not take a strong person to do what everyone is doing I promise you. People say they been going in which ever bathroom they wanted anyway. Gee I wonder what all the commotion is over then? Half the peoplease that are transgender have been molested at some point and it’s been proven most people that have been molested are more likely to do it. BTW that’s not a REAL lock on the “stall” door that was just so out there.
Where have I been, you ask. I’ve been working with the mentally ill, the survivors of sexual abuse, and the addicts who struggle to set down and walk away from their substances, because they have issues related to trauma, abuse, and rape, and they find taking drugs and drinking alcohol easier than facing those issues. Since 1988 that’s where I’ve been. ( But thanks for asking.) I’ve been working with people whose boundaries have been shredded by selfish people who thought what they wanted was all that mattered, never mind the other person. I’ve been working with the people who will find the admission of males into female bathrooms, as a severe and intolerable violation of their privacy and safety, to such an extent, many of them will stop going shopping not only to Target, but to any store that adopts this policy. I’ve been working with the children who’ve been raped, and forever live in anxiety and fear any type of situation in which their safety is not absolutely clear. I’ve worked with children who won’t use a public restroom at school now, because they are so fearful. How do you think they will get over their fear, if the opposite sex starts hanging out there?
And this isn’t about the LGBT community, nor is it about Christianity. There’s no need to attack either one. It’s about common sense, safety, privacy and boundaries. We aren’t afraid of lesbians in the ladies room, they’ve been there all along. As long as they aren’t having sex there or showing themselves off in otherwise inappropriate behavior in there, we don’t mind them. ( And I’ve never seen any being inappropriate in there so I don’t even know who they are, nor care.) They’re just women like us, but they have different preferences… We aren’t afraid of gay males dressed as men, in our ladies rooms because they go to the men’s room, willingly and without argument. Most of the bisexual people tend to go to the bathroom that is intended for their biological sex. It’s the trans people this is about. Do we hate them? No, absolutely not, neither transsexuals nor transvestites. In fact, Madea is one of my favorite movie characters. And while Tyler Perry is one awesome looking, brilliant man ( and I know it’s him under that Madea dress), I still don’t want him in the ladies room with me. Nor do I think he would attempt to use the ladies room, except maybe in the movies where everyone in there would be an actor acting a part, and therefore consenting to the situation. As for Trans people who dress as women for other reasons besides making some of the best movies ever seen (as Tyler Perry does), I don’t want them in the ladies room either. If you have a male body, I simply don’t care what gender you feel like you are or want to be,or wish you were, or plan to become, you have a male body, you need to use the male restroom, or if you are currently in drag, and uncomfortable with the men’s room, then use the third restroom, the unisex/family/individual restroom. Then you, the transformer, (who chose to dress in drag, nobody made you) can feel safe, and so can women and children in the ladies room. And for the record, it isn’t the true transsexual who we are afraid of, it’s the predators who will use this kind of policy, as a wide open door into the girls/ ladies rooms, both restroom and changing rooms, in order to access women and children. It’s a matter of safety for women and children. No woman feels safe in a restroom or changing room with any man, other than her husband/mate, around. No female child will feel safe dressing in a locker room at school, with even one boy in there. Same for restrooms. That sense of insecurity and danger is normal. And think about young girls. It’s normal for them to be uncomfortable dressing in front of other girls , at first at least. And many remain self conscious and uncomfortable with this throughout their school years. Especially since most locker rooms are one big room with no privacy anywhere. Imagine being a girl child/teenager and how it would feel to have to undress in front of a boy or boys. Most girls couldn’t stand that! Now, consider the women and children who have a history of sexual abuse, how safe will they feel in a restroom or changing room/locker room, with people of the opposite biological sex? Not at all. It is a clear violation of a child’s or adult’s boundaries to have anyone (other than a mate in the case of the adults) in the room with them, when using a rest room or locker/changing room. In that regard having a boy or male in the female dressing room, locker room or restroom is sexual abuse to all the females in there! Let me say that another way. Forcing a female to change clothes or go to the bathroom in front of males, is a form of sexual abuse, and having a male choose to undress in front of females is also sexual abuse to the females there. Why? For the same reason it is offensive, sexually abusive and illegal for a man to take his penis out in public and show it to women who did not want to see it. Exposing oneself to people of the opposite sex who are not consenting to this, is a form of sexual assault! Make no mistake about it. And nobody cares what gender that male feels like he is that day or any other. If he’s a male biologically, 99.9% of the females do not want him in our private spaces. As for your statistics on how this has not increased attacks on females, I don’t know where they came from, none of this business of letting males in the ladies rooms has been done long enough to have valid statistics. Those of us who have worked with those with a history of trauma and sexual abuse/rape, know that there are plenty of pedophiles and other predators who would ( and will) take advantage of any and every opportunity to access females. Far, far too many girls and women already are sexually abused, need we make it easier for this to happen?
And yes, I know boys and men can be abused too. Which is why my sons were required to go in the ladies room with me until they were large enough to go in the men’s room alone, when my husband was not present. This was before family restrooms were available. And even then, I stood near the door and yelled at them periodically to see if they were ok. They both also knew if they didn’t come out promptly, I might come charging in, ready for battle. (I never actually had to do this. But they knew I would if necessary, and they knew they would be embarrassed if I ever did have to come in there, especially if they were ok, just dawdling.)
As a whole we are not as concerned about females in the men’s room, because most females wouldn’t want to go in there, unless it was empty, and the ladies room line was too long, and their need was urgent. I admit that I have seen a group of females commandeer a men’s room at a festival, when no men were in there (and they gave a few shouts out to double check for emptiness first). Then,a woman stood at the door to keep any men from going in for the few minutes it took to take care of the women’s room line, then it was returned to the men, generally within a minute after the first man showed up with a need for it. Other than that one occasion, or occasions where the mens room and ladies room were both individual use type rest rooms, and the mens was empty while the ladies line was growing, I have never seen ladies go into a men’s restroom. Some teenage boys might like it if teenage girls came into their restroom or locker room, I’m guessing. But do we really need to encourage this? Do we need more teenage pregnancies resulting in abortions or unwed mothers? That is what happens when teenage boys and girls get naked together. One thing leads to another and babies or abortions follow. Are we ready for that? I don’t think so. So no matter how you look at it, allowing opposite biological sex people into public restrooms and changing/locker rooms is not acceptable.
If this policy of allowing men (who claim they feel female) in ladies private spaces becomes standard practice, several things will happen: 1) Homeschooling will explode. Most parents will NOT tolerate having children of the opposite sex in their child’s restroom or changing/locker rooms at school, and many parents will take their children home to home school them, specifically to protect them from this sexual abuse. 2) Stores that institute these policies will see sales drop and stores without these policies will see sales increase. If it becomes standard at all stores, women will revert to on line/catalog shopping for 95% of everything, and will buy perishable foods at farmer’s markets,etc. Less shopping overall will happen, hurting the economy because most women like me, will do without ( or make) many things before shopping at stores we feel unsafe in, or at stores we know do not value our safety. I’d rather wear last year’s ( and the 5 yrs before that) clothes than shop at Target. I’d rather make clothes than shop at Target. I’d rather wear Goodwill clothes than shop at Target. I’d rather order clothes on line, or by phone than shop at Target. I will never again shop at Target. See the pattern? Notice most of it is making do with what I have. There will be a lot of that. 3)There will be a sharp increase in assaults upon the women and children who are in the restrooms where men are allowed, and this will include an increase in the number of missing children because any predator can find a way to walk right out with them! (I won’t say how this is possible, they don’t need ideas/help.) 4) There will be a large increase in the number of people needing mental health services including therapy, psychiatric appts, medication use and services for drug addiction/drug abuse. 4) The number of teenage pregnancies will increase. 5) Health clubs/gyms will see memberships crash! Since most women do not want to be in a locker room or restroom with any strange males, (regardless of whether they wear a dress and false eyelashes and bra or not), most women will cancel their memberships before they will undress in the presence of strange males. 6) The number of women carrying loaded firearms will skyrocket. Many women if faced with going into a restroom of a store, where men may be hiding in stalls, or may come in while we are in the stalls, will only shop in a store when they absolutely must, and will go in armed, no matter what the sign on the front door says. Or else we’ll all line up outside the family/unisex bathroom, and the line will be very, very long. 7) Shootings will increase. When frightened women who are packing loaded guns, feel threatened, there is a high risk of somebody dying.
You’ll notice I’ve make a point out of the fact that trans people have a choice. If a person wants to dress in drag, they choose that, nobody forced them. It’s a matter of personal choice, and I do not deny them that. I personally often wear men’s jeans, (they seem to often be made better),and I usually wears men’s sneakers, because they are wider and fit my feet better than ladies. I have even been known to wear men’s tee shirts on occasion, especially when I find them cheaper than ladies. So, I admit to wearing men’s clothing at times. But then I use the ladies room. Because I have a female body. The fact that I’m wearing men’s shoes, jeans, and/or tee shirt does not change my basic biology nor where I belong. I can choose to dress male, but it doesn’t make me male. What I feel like is irrelevant. I feel like I should be a rich person, does that make me rich? No, it does not. Nor does it give me access to and use of fancy cars houses, or jewelry. I feel like a lot of things, that doesn’t make them real. But how people choose to dress is about transvestites not transsexuals. Anybody can dress in the clothing of the opposite sex. Pedophiles and other predators will certainly do that in order to take advantage of children and women. That’s why we can’t let them have that opportunity. As for transsexuals, like Bruce/Kaitlyn Jenner, ok, he was male, he’s had the surgery to be female now. So I guess I should say she now. Would I want her in the ladies room with me? Not particularly, but I wouldn’t fight that or complain about it either. She was clearly convinced enough of her identity as a female, to undergo the surgery required to become female. So in many ways she’s done what it takes to make her biology match her ideas/feelings. However, the men with male biological bodies, who claim they feel like/or are female, but they remain male biologically, do not belong in the ladies rooms. The men who are in the process of becoming female biologically probably need to use the individual use unisex bathroom for their own comfort level as well as that of the people who are not in transition, but are fully one sex or the other. And yes, I’m aware that I may have been in a restroom at some point in time, while a male who was dressed as a female, was in there and I was unaware. If that is the case, so be it. If I wasn’t aware, I wasn’t made uncomfortable. It is not the true transsexuals who pose the greatest danger to women and children, it is the trans-posers who are predators who are the real danger. But anyone who appears male in anyway, and is in fact male, breaks the boundaries of every female in the room, just by their presence, with the exception of small male children, which females have always welcomed in the ladies rooms with their mothers out of necessity.
Now ask yourself. Is this really what the LGBT community wants? Is this what the rest of us , the majority wants? Are you all ready to completely change the way you live, just to keep your women and children safe, while being careful not to hurt the feelings of the rare men who choose to proclaim their gender as female? I know many women already carry guns often, are we ready for all women to carry a gun every time they go shopping? Are we ready for women to do very little shopping? Are we ready for the rights of women and children to matter so little legally, that women feel they must go armed to go purchase items the family needs? The bottom line is there are excellent reasons for biologically specific and separate restrooms and changing/locker rooms such as safety, privacy and maintaining appropriate boundaries between the sexes. We need to maintain separate facilities for each sex and keep those rare individuals who don’t choose to accept their biological sex out of the facilities they don’t belong in according to their actual bodies. In many places there are individual use restrooms available for either sex, or families, and those should be used by those who aren’t comfortable using their own actual (biological) sex restrooms, including those in transition.
I see now I used #4 twice, that’s what happens when you get interrupted and fail to proof read carefully. My apologies for this oversight. The message, remains the same.
If the writer supports Hillary, she’s the biggest hypocrite of all.
Oh boy, even the quality of our distractions is declining. The sad truth is that the transgender population is a statistically insignificant minority. Estimates put their numbers below 1%. Somehow we are supposed to get all worked up about where such a tiny cohort pees rather than focus on true problems like creating money out of nothing, rampant government corruption, and economic ennui.
It’s mindboggling how a pervert like Obama can command a nation and fool millions of people like this writer with lofty words but twisted logic. This is the “foolest” generation.
Haven’t seen this perspective written before, seems like it was all people arguing about the details and LGBT. Framing it in the concern about women discussion is brilliant. Had me saying “exactly!” As I read through.
Bs. Bs. Bs. Until you have a man poking a camera at you you will change your tune especially with kids. This is liberal nonsense . No one said transgender are committing these sex crimes it’s perverts target opened the door wide for. Your perspective is nauseating
Little benongst to most people! We have “ALL OF US” have been going to the bathroom with transgender people for probably my re than 50 years, and never cared to notice or discuss this subject! No one cared, now all of a sudden everyone Care’s! Amazing hypocrisy! 🙁
Benongst?
MaDE up word for a liberal fool. We may have been going to the restroom with transgenders as long as you say but that is not the question that we’re talking about we’re talking about perverts that come in and molest little girls or little boys with cameras or whatever is on their mind Target open the door for these people to commit these kind of crimes if everything was okay as you say with the transgender why did they even have to change the laws another nauseating post
“if everything was okay as you say with the transgender why did they even have to change the laws”
Maybe you should try asking the republican fools who decided to make their bigotry a matter of law?
My thought is that this is a fantastic article. Unfortunately the ones boycotting Target will not read it. They are busy worrying that a Transgender person might use their restroom and spread their germs so that more people will become a Transgender person.
sadly true
At what point in time did a micro minority obtain the right to dictate the morals, rights and laws of the majority? One of two things is going to happen to Target. They will close their doors forever or they will can their CEO and reverse a policy that caters to mutants.
KA-BAR, making a man into a woman so their won’t be any questions.
Fortunately, hopefully just to spite you, neither will happen! People like you are the reason a good chunk of the population is terrified to leave their homes, knowing that at least behind their front door they won’t be assaulted without cause. We’re people too, our DNA is still the same so we’re not “mutants”, as you called us.
In fact, we’re better people than you, as you’re not showing any humanity at all.
No “micro-minority” is dictating anything to anyone. The members of the LGBT community are simply asking to have the rights guaranteed under the Constitution. LGBT population is heavily discriminated against, despite the fact that their identity issues are real.
It is actually they who are being dictated to: You cannot use the restroom most appropriate to your identity.
It is difficult for me to understand the pictures that these bigots have running through their minds. A good percentage of the time one isn’t even aware a transgender person is present.
And by the way, what are all those stalls with doors for?
And my town’s two Targets are going gangbusters, thank you. But then, I suspect we live in the 21st Century rather than the 19th Century time-frame in which your mind seems to reside. But then, how can one respect the opinion of one so afraid that he/she hides their own identity by being “anonymous”.
I don’t usual engage in commentary on people afraid to stand behind their own words. So I naturally wonder at the reality is of your identity. Is the realty that you’re a teacher with bigotry in your heart? A cop, who is supposed to support LGBT people but hates it? A politician whose career would tank if your constituents knew your bigotry? Or just a good ole boy redneck who wants the little woman in the kitchen cooking dinner, barefoot and pregnant, and bringing you a another brew while you watch Ultimate Fighting?
Whatever the truth, “Anonymous” gets two thumbs up for bigotry, intolerance, and cowardice.
LOL, there goes the name calling. When you can’t win on any other merit, there’s your go to. Leave it, it is so old it’s not even funny. The point is not that transgenders can use a bathroom it’s the fact now that a straight man can go in and no one can say shit about it. Get it? I’d rather live in the so called 18th century than the twilight zone buddy
Since the jews took control of the media
More than likely nothing will happen because fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your perspective) idiots like you, a minority by the way, have a very short memory.
no, the only idiot is YOU because you can’t see that the emperor is naked
How do you or can you possibly know what any of these folks boycotting Target, because apparently that was the catalyst for your anger, are protesting about in the name of women????
That’s an easy question to answer. The protesters are very loud about whhy they are boycotting…to any one who is listening.
I did a blog post similar to this a few years ago. I feel the same way. These people don’t actually care about these issues. They are trying to force their prejudices on others. It infuriates me what abusers get away with! Yet, few seem to care. I don’t respect those people at all. They don’t give a flying falcon about what happens to girls in bathrooms. Is they did, they would have spoken up long ago. They are just uncomfortable with Transgender people (even though they might meet a Transgender person and never know it). So they try to find away to never have to see a Transgender person. To them, if we don’t see them, they don’t exist. That’s not okay!
http://homewithmommy-fran.blogspot.com/2013/09/when-women-are-victims.html
Or they’re worried a straight guy can walk in with women and girls trying to use the bathroom..hello? Anyone home???
Just because this law was passed does not mean straight guys are going to all of a sudden use the ladies room. If someone wants to do harm to someone else in a restroom, a law isn’t going to stop them. So I just don’t understand why this is an issue. The reason this is scary to some is because most of us will never truely understand what it’s like to be a transgender person. We need to support each other, show some understanding and compassion, and ask questions, instead of immediately and automatically saying awful things and cutting each other down. I’m so tired of the hate we see from each other in social media. I’m sincerely not trying to be melodramatic, but I’m sick of us destroying each other. I like to think most people are inherently good and genuinely want peace. I’m hoping others understand what I’m saying, while others might say nasty things.
Great work . I appreciate more of u each time I read u . Thanks
I’m gonna come at this from a few different angles. First, as a supporter of the LGBT community, as I have friends who are gay and proud, struggle with identity issues, and who have undergone expensive, horrifically painful surgery so they can feel “whole.” I respect their beliefs, their views, and their right to pee.
I am also going to come at this as a victim of a few of the attrocities you mention that I have faced in my 32 years of being a woman. I understand fear. I understand violence. I speak out now because it hits close to home.
When I was very, very young, my grandfather crossed so many boundaries that I knew what sex was by the time I was 4, and it took my mother coming home early one day for that to come to a screeching halt. She reported him. He was incarcerated. I never had much of a relationship with him, and was not sad when he passed away. He used to send me birthday cards with a $25 check, and in his final years, would send them with pictures of himself as a young man in the navy. I wish I could have known him, but to me, he will always be a monster.
In my mid-twenties, I was raped by a very close friend. We were drunk. I trusted him. We had previously had a relationship, but he knew I wasn’t interested. I woke up with a hangover and bruises on my wrists and thighs and he was obviously ashamed. We were drunk. We were close.
It was still rape. I have to live with that, and so does he.
My ex-husband was manipulative and wanted me to gain an incredibly unhealthy amount of weight. I didn’t know that he would ask this of me before we were married. I suffered that, too, trying to please a man who told me he loved me. His family was unsupportive and hated me because I spoke up when I disagreed. His father was a drunk and his mother a woman who had no control in her life, physically or financially. He was NOT happy when I filed for divorce, and to this day still thinks we were a great couple.
I never knew true anxiety until my last long term relationship ended. During the 5 years we were together, I was going through school and had very little money or freedom. I felt really trapped with a man who was depressed and manipulative. I ended it and wanted to see someone else. Fear drove me back, and less than a year later, he got a woman at his work pregnant. I left, stronger this time. Until she lost the baby, and I took him back, even though my friends and family shouted at me to let him go. I couldn’t hear them, and that was my failure. He was sick. Depressed. Needed me.
And when I had finally had enough, I left for a final time, but not before he cornered me physically for over an hour. I had never felt fear OF him until that point, and I still get anxious when I think i MIGHT be in the same area as him.
These were men I knew. Trusted. Enjoyed days with that will live on as great memories. I CHOSE to be around all but one of them. All of them failed me in ways that have left me with the scars of a survivor.
I do not ask for pity. I ask for people to open their eyes and really LOOK at what goes on, even behind your own closed doors. Your home bathroom is “gender neutral,” and don’t respond with “but I only let people that I know and trust use it!” Have you ever had a party where you invited people to bring a friend and someone new set foot in your house? Or a repair man had too much coffee and needs to pee? Do you make them go outside and use a tree? Or do you shrug and say “yep, down the hall, second door on the right”?
And don’t think a transgender man doesn’t know what it’s like to be a girl. He started that way, and likely has far more respect for you and your children than you give him credit. Trangender women, at least the ones I known, are kind and considerate, and all they want is to love someone. Most of the gay couple I know have children that are well taken care of, happy and healthy and allowed to simply be children. They should NOT be punished because some book you don’t really follow unless it’s convenient says so. God didn’t write the Bible. A bunch of MEN did.
“Gender neutral” removes archaic boundaries set forth by practices many of us have interpreted to fit our own lifestyles. I have had some pretty awful experiences in my life, and I do NOT fear sharing a bathroom with a man/transgender person, and I find myself questioning why anyone would want these boundaries in place when they stunt our own developement. Our double standards are ridiculous. Men in Scotland wear kilts, and it’s “manly” but a boy like the color pink and suddenly there is worry that he might be gay. A girl is lorded over and taught she is “less than a man” her whole life, and when she finally speaks out, she is a “lesbian” or a “b*tch.”A transgender person who has gone through a lifetime of trying to feel “right” or “whole” knows well the struggles you will face in accepting their existence because they have had a hard time accepting their own.
Honestly, just stop and think. Just because you can’t always see from someone else’s point of view doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, and being respectful sometimes means giving support, even against things you “know” to be true. It could be your son or daughter that faces the things this article speaks of. It could even be YOU. There is nothing more infuriating than people that only speak out when something goes against things they fear and don’t understand, or choose to remain ignorant to the world we have created because they simply think “it won’t happen to me.”
Thank you for writing this article. I see a lot of support to the cause of being a rational human being, and this was great. 🙂
This is asinine. People do speak out about these things, myself included. The fact that you think no one else does shows the limited bubble you have chosen to live in. My response to this is simple. Let me get this straight, so I fully understand, because there is danger in the world for women anyway we shouldn’t concern ourselves if some stupid politician does something to increase that danger? Those rapists, people that would assault your daughters, people that would take pictures of you in the toilet, and so on can now walk into a public bathroom claiming they are transgender, and no one can say or do anything to stop them. Do you believe for even a second that there are not going to be a LARGE number of sexual predators who will not take advantage of this? If so then you are naive. The fact that there is already danger out there should spur you on to try and DECREASE the dangers, not add to them.
Another conservative who tries to pretend he’s a plastic Libertarian….
Reblogged this on Accidentally Inspired and commented:
Just gonna leave this here as I go off to tour my new workplace …
Well written! ..and very well done.
How do you know we haven’t done those things! ;Stop pre juding what you know nothing about!
Reblogged this on Crystal Henderson and commented:
There is so much to be angry about. At least be angry about something that actually matters.
My husband and I were discussing this and his whole line of questioning to me was “Why? Why do transgenders find it so important to go to the women’s bathroom?” My husband is a smart, caring person, but he had only imagined a group of people angrily demanding rights. It took me saying “Honey, they’re scared too.The men’s room can be a really scary place for them” for him to even see that viewpoint..
Target is free to make whatever choice they want, however, they are not free from the consequences of their choice…http://www.westernjournalism.com/rash-of-peeping-incidents-follows-targets-new-bathroom-policy/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Huckabee&utm_content=2016-06-18&utm_campaign=manualpost
Writer claims to have an open mind, then accuses everyone else of not caring as much about women’s issues as she does. Nice.
After reading it is clear that you are indeed agenda driven while you have valid points linking this to Target’s Policy which just the announcing of their agenda gives perverts and flashers a reason to be in the other sexes restroom or changing room make no sense its apples and oranges just trying to blur the real issue, this announcement I believe puts women and children at risk for their safety and privicy!
*micdrop*
Rather than reply, it’ll be better to make a new comment as this responds well to many other comments here and not just one as well as the article itself.
The matter is quite simple and to best put it into perspective is to bring up a different element within the LBGT community and that is to bring the other three letters (particularly the L and G) into this.
Do gay guys use the women’s washrooms/locker rooms? Do gay women use the men’s? Of course the answer is no to this but have you ever asked why?
The answer is simple. The segregation has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It has to do with what you have on the outside of your body. So it should go without saying that just as sexual orientation doesn’t dictate which washroom you use neither should your “feels”. In this case what gender you feel you are (aka what gender you “identify” as).
If you identify as female but you have the outward body of a male, you use the male washroom. Once you get a sex change to get an outward body of a female then you use the women’s washroom.
This isn’t about denying rights. Nobody is being denied any rights. This isn’t about people being transphobic. This is simply a matter of personal safety.
Do yourself a favor just to get a little perspective. Do a search for ‘spy cams in the bathroom’ with the adult filter turned off and the results will both shock and disgust you. Given the American population, even if every single trans person were to be assaulted in a washroom simply for being trans, it would still pale in comparison to the number of women who become the victim of assault or a victim to the results of the earlier mentioned search.
While there are no cameras inside washrooms, there will often be cameras outside the washroom aimed at the entrance. For a guy entering the women’s washroom it means being caught on those cameras. If we allow people with an outward appearance of male into the women’s washroom simply because that person says “I identify as a women”, it give the perv men an excuse to be caught on those cameras. It nullifies that evidence in an assault case bringing it back to a simple ‘her word against his’. It makes it easier for the pervs to be pervs.
Nobody is calling trans pervs simply for being trans. That’s not the case at all. This is about the pervs (who are likely straight, non-trans, males) simply lying about being trans when they really are not just to gain access to the women’s bathroom.
The discomfort of some trans and the small % of those who are the victim of some form of aggression toward them is the lesser of two evils. Allowing people to enter the women’s washroom simply because they say they identify as female (and vice versa for the men’s washroom) may alleviate the discomfort but it won’t reduce the number of victims within the trans community. If anything it is more likely to increase the number of victims both within and without the trans community.
Is that really something you want?
I..i…this makes literally no sense. firstly people ARE saying trans people are pervs and pedophiles. secondly gay and lesbians dont use the other washroom because THATS A SEXUALITY NOT A GENDER. massive difference
First off, please point me to where people said that it’s the trans themselves that are pervs because all I see are people saying that the change only makes it easier for pervs to be pervs.
Regarding “sexuality” vs “gender”, if you have the body of a male but “feel” female, then that isn’t all that different to sexuality. Neither are a matter of choice yet both boils down to signals firing in your brain. The ‘feeling’ of attraction to members of the same sex, and the ‘feeling’ of being the other gender than what your physical appearance dictates.
So just as sexuality doesn’t dictate which bathroom you use, neither should what gender you feel you are. Instead you use the one based on the gender you physically are.
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Interesting how I stumbled into the article. I saw the “Open Letter To Target” title.. it’s late at night, so I gave it a read as I did understand it was about the recent ‘bathroom’ issue.for transgenders. I think the article is pointed and well done and I appreciated the viewpoint. But it’s all the crazy comments and replies that made me a tad incensed.
Again, the same as with all this race issue, being an older white guy, and straight, somehow makes me feel unqualified to even venture into discussion since I’m not part of any of the social victimization. If anything, my demographic is usually considered part of what’s making every other demographics life impossible. Damn my persecution!
I must be a stupid idiot on this subject so bear with me here as I am neither female, gay, transgendered, or black (just trying to cover it all here). So let me get this straight (uh.. no pun intended).
1. Public separate sex rest rooms are normally never locked.
2. I never knew there were any laws prohibiting men/women from entering each other’s domain to begin with. I mean, after all, women have stalls that can be locked so I dunno what value it is for men to poke around in there anyway (yes, yes, I know it’s happened but that’s been very rare). Both men and women are likely too embarrassed to be in the same men’s room together watching what flops into the urinal (thank gawd for Victorianism!). Am I right?
3. Given that, I presume the risk for perverts and pedophiles to enter either rest room with reckless abandon prior to any law, would be the same if there were a law?
4. Also, if a transgendered-in-progress person goes into a ladies room would they not also retain privacy by tinkling (or whatever) in a locked stall?
4. Soooo… if all that is true, then why the hell is there some argument about it all when there are far more important things in this country to worry about than who’s pot one can piss in without attracting perverts??
But, hey. What do I know. I’m white, male, straight, and obviously a member of the demographic responsible for holding back another social minority from expressing themselves. Jeez.. I’m surprised we haven’t heard from the perverts yet!
I agree. but, i know you probably didnt mean this as such, but transgendered is actually a highly insulting word for trans people because its a defining noun and reduces our existence to just us being trans.
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As the rain pours down with all its might , I sit in my balcony with a steaming cup of coffee while streaming through the daily newspaper delivering news and gossips of celebrities world over.
My eyes wander through the various reports but suddenly freeze upon a word.
FEMINISM.
Why must we need something known as ‘ feminism ‘ ?Why must we need something known as ‘ feminism ‘ ?
I am a member of the LGB community. 5 -10 years ago i probably would have agreed with the author, but not now. I have seen too many friends targeted by trans activists, especially online, with death threats, rape threats and horrible verbal abuse, just because they believe females have a right to gather on private land or spaces without male bodied individuals being present.
The target policy is a very slippery slope. Its not just restrooms, its locker rooms, its prisons, its any space that is sex segregated. Yes, these spaces are segregated by sex, not gender. The reason they are sex segregated is do to male violence. This is the same reason that male to trans people dont want to use male restrooms. . .male violence. I have yet to see a female to trans person fighting to use the mens rooms, again. . .male violence. Lets name the real problem here.
Studies have shown that male to trans commit violent crimes in the same persentages an non trans males. Males convicted of rape are demanding to be housed in womens prisons, wanting taxpayers to pay for their surgeries and hormones. Females have a right to be free from preditory males, reguardless of their gender, or how they identify.
I resently attended the Womens March on Washington, and was horrified that one of the main stage speakers was a male to trans, who has publicly admitted, on line, to having raped a female to trans friend, with the express purpose of getting her pregnant. And they gave this rapist stage time and a platform to speak at the womens march. Male to trans comments following the march were so misogynistic, they felt the pussy power signs and hats were transphobic because to them “not all women have pussys, or vaginas, or uteruses”. Yet the preditor in chief didn’t brag about grabbing their penises or scrotum, he bragged about grabbing women by the pussy. So, if it is transphobic to even mention female genitalia, where does that leave women? When we can not even name our bodies, our organs without getting harrassed, are we to go back to invisibility?
Last, but in no way least, the trans community lost my support when many male to trans started harrassing lesbians who refuse to consider them as romantic or sexual partners. Lesbians are female homosexuals, women who are attracted to other females. It is not transphobic for a lesbian to say no to a male to trans. And when male to trans claim to be lesbians, sorry, but no. If you are born male, and attracted to women, you are heterosexual, reguardless of your gender identity. Born males can not be lesbians.
So when people say “we just want to pee”, no, it is about much more than that.